If FFG sell a damage deck the next complaint will be" why can't i buy upgrade cards separately"

Edited to fix my tablet typing and eliminate the trolls trying to read into and miss quote.

If FFG sell a damage deck the next complaint will be" why can't i buy upgrade cards separately"

So what? It's not like the competitive crowd doesn't complain they can't just get the cards they want now. What certain people here can't get through their thick fanboy brains is you don't actually need those "competitive" cards to play a tournament if you want to. But now you will need that deck that's only available in a stated that FFG says is just as valid a start point as the one without the deck.

And when you've started up a multi-million selling miniatures game you'll be able to dictate how you sell your products.

Here's your first step.

Oh, and for your information, if you want to play in a tournament you do need a physical copy of whatever card you've got in your list. Honest, it's in the roolz.

Cheers

Baaa

Thick fanboy brains eh?

Is this finally an excuse to get this thread locked? I shall report it and find out.

Thick fanboy brains eh?

Is this finally an excuse to get this thread locked? I shall report it and find out.

Don't like anyone questioning peoples ability to think? Or is it that you just don't like people that have the gall to actually make valid points that show flaws in the player base, the game, or FFG?. I think it's all needed. So report away bub!

If FFG sell a damage deck the next complaint will be" why can't i buy upgrade cards separately"

So what? It's not like the competitive crowd doesn't complain they can't just get the cards they want now. What certain people here can't get through their thick fanboy brains is you don't actually need those "competitive" cards to play a tournament if you want to. But now you will need that deck that's only available in a stated that FFG says is just as valid a start point as the one without the deck.

And when you've started up a multi-million selling miniatures game you'll be able to dictate how you sell your products.

Here's your first step.

Oh, and for your information, if you want to play in a tournament you do need a physical copy of whatever card you've got in your list. Honest, it's in the roolz.

Cheers

Baaa

Ty for pointing out I could of made it clearer an will edit it now to do so.

Thick fanboy brains eh?

Is this finally an excuse to get this thread locked? I shall report it and find out.

Don't like anyone questioning peoples ability to think? Or is it that you just don't like people that have the gall to actually make valid points that show flaws in the player base, the game, or FFG?. I think it's all needed. So report away bub!

Tell you what. Find me a valid point in your post. I'll wait.

Customer opinion will no doubt fit into the equation, just like I expect it did with the S&V Dial ruling.

The dial ruling cost them nothing though, it was an easy PR move.

Selling a damage deck'd require:

• Packaging.
• Production.
• Shipping.
• Licensing.
• Spending factory time making the damage deck instead of something else.

Opportunity cost and cost of manufacture: they probably assessed the market simply wasn't big enough, especially for a product which inherently competes with the Core Set. And that market gets smaller every time an existing player buys a core set (new players'll get the new deck with their core), so I doubt they'd put a separate damage deck into production now.

What certain people here can't get through their thick fanboy brains is you don't actually need those "competitive" cards to play a tournament if you want to.

The only "thick" person in this example is the person who can't think outside the groupthink. I've yet to see one truly required card to compete. The closest is TIE/x1, and there you have the option of using any other other myriad Imperial ships in place of the Advanced.

Arguably C3PO. as packaged with the CR90. Honestly though i got these ships for the ships not the cards. But I can see why people dead set in running lists for tourneys could be upset. Technically Scum Boba/Kat/HWKS require S&V...

Not a single person complained about that by the way.

The dial ruling cost them nothing though, it was an easy PR move.

In theory it may of cost them some sales, but it was unlikely to be a lot of sales, and the good will they got outweighed that loss.

But that was my whole point. FFG has proven that they will at least factor the player base's opinion into the equation, something that other companies clearly don't do.

I believe that if FFG were to look at it, and found that the cost of selling a seperate damage deck was about equal to the profit they'd gain by it, then they'd err on the side of what made their customers the most happy.

Arguably C3PO. as packaged with the CR90. Honestly though i got these ships for the ships not the cards. But I can see why people dead set in running lists for tourneys could be upset. Technically Scum Boba/Kat/HWKS require S&V...

Not a single person complained about that by the way.

C-3PO was (and to an extent is) utterly overblown. Maybe it could have stood to be 4 points, but C-3PO's a scapegoat, not a problem.

Thick fanboy brains eh?

Is this finally an excuse to get this thread locked? I shall report it and find out.

Don't like anyone questioning peoples ability to think? Or is it that you just don't like people that have the gall to actually make valid points that show flaws in the player base, the game, or FFG?. I think it's all needed. So report away bub!

Tell you what. Find me a valid point in your post. I'll wait.

So it's not a valid point that you don't need the upgrade cards at all to play a tournament or casual game? It's not a player flaw that they they think they must have those cards and feel they are being forced to buy those ships to play?

So it's not a valid point that FFG considers both starters as valid entry points? Source https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/9/16/ but they then make the new one required by their tournament rules. That isn't a flaw? Sure looks like one to me, known as hypocrisy.

Remember valid does not mean fits your narrative, it means it has factual basis and my points do!

Thick fanboy brains eh?

Is this finally an excuse to get this thread locked? I shall report it and find out.

Don't like anyone questioning peoples ability to think? Or is it that you just don't like people that have the gall to actually make valid points that show flaws in the player base, the game, or FFG?. I think it's all needed. So report away bub!

Tell you what. Find me a valid point in your post. I'll wait.

So it's not a valid point that you don't need the upgrade cards at all to play a tournament or casual game? It's not a player flaw that they they think they must have those cards and feel they are being forced to buy those ships to play?

So it's not a valid point that FFG considers both starters as valid entry points? Source https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/9/16/ but they then make the new one required by their tournament rules. That isn't a flaw? Sure looks like one to me, known as hypocrisy.

Remember valid does not mean fits your narrative, it means it has factual basis and my points do!

The first two weren't even really points in your post as I read it, though I'd argue that desire to collect all the different cards isn't a flaw.

The latter point is yes, the core sets are both completely valid, and the OT core set is being reprinted. So, that's a nonissue.

I'll grant that it would be a bit regrettable if someone bought a new OT core set and it'd have the old decks, but I'm pretty confident FFG support would fix that up for them, one issue here I would grant is newer players who don't know about the difference and want to do tournaments could potentially suffer.

So... what was your point again?

So it's not a valid point that FFG considers both starters as valid entry points? Source https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/9/16/ but they then make the new one required by their tournament rules. That isn't a flaw? Sure looks like one to me, known as hypocrisy.

Remember valid does not mean fits your narrative, it means it has factual basis and my points do!

You're assuming that reprints of the original box set will contain the original damage deck.

Future reprints of the original box set may well include the new damage deck - in which case, both box sets will indeed be perfectly valid entry points for the game, and both will also be legal for tournaments.

Obviously you can't apply your argument to pre-existing box sets which were printed before the new damage deck was introduced, that's patently absurd.

Remember valid does not mean fits your narrative, it means it has factual basis and my points do!

No not really.

The OT core even if it had the old damage deck is still completely valid to use in casual games or even competitive ones that don't require the new damage deck. That's the point people like you keep missing. The only time you have to have the new damage deck is in primer level events, such as store championships, regionals, nationals or Worlds.

Except I want to play with a well designed damage deck.

Then get a new core set.

Or just proxy the cards. Print out the new ones, sleeve them in front of the old ones. Magic, new damage deck. This isn't hard. If you're not playing at tournaments, even buying a stand alone deck is a stupid waste of money.

I wouldn't call it a stupid waste money. Everyone wants the most up to date damage deck. I play casually and would prefer to have the newest deck as it affects how the game is played...tourney it not. The wording of your post smacks of the "tourney players don't mean squat" attitude that is so prevalent on this board and that I alluded to in my very first post on this subject...that attitude needs to be done away with. You "competitive" people need to realize that you aren't the most important segment of the game...the.game doesn't revolve around you...

While I find all this wailing and knashing of teeth over this to be utterly stupid and self serving...none of you have any right to tel me or any other "casual" that we are "wasting" our money because we choose not to play in your bs tourney setting.

While the argument that they don't NEED it because they "don't play in tournies" is technically correct...I wouldn't form the basis of my counter argument on that. People still want it and it will improve their games. I base my counter argument on a. Not wanting to set a precedent for a card only pack in any form and b. The supposition that a stand alone pack would be a loser of a sku for ffg...else they would have put it out or announced it.

The whiners have plenty of ways to get this deck should they choose to...they know this and we know this...but we shall see what the future holds...

And that right there, is full of valid points.

So it's not a valid point that FFG considers both starters as valid entry points? Source https://www.fantasyf...news/2015/9/16/ but they then make the new one required by their tournament rules. That isn't a flaw? Sure looks like one to me, known as hypocrisy.

Presumably they'll update the old one to have the new stuff.

Remember valid does not mean fits your narrative, it means it has factual basis and my points do!

It's not looking good when you have to tell people your points are valid rather than that being self-evident.

Except I want to play with a well designed damage deck.

Then get a new core set.

Or just proxy the cards. Print out the new ones, sleeve them in front of the old ones. Magic, new damage deck. This isn't hard. If you're not playing at tournaments, even buying a stand alone deck is a stupid waste of money.

I wouldn't call it a stupid waste money. Everyone wants the most up to date damage deck. I play casually and would prefer to have the newest deck as it affects how the game is played...tourney it not. The wording of your post smacks of the "tourney players don't mean squat" attitude that is so prevalent on this board and that I alluded to in my very first post on this subject...that attitude needs to be done away with. You "competitive" people need to realize that you aren't the most important segment of the game...the.game doesn't revolve around you...

While I find all this wailing and knashing of teeth over this to be utterly stupid and self serving...none of you have any right to tel me or any other "casual" that we are "wasting" our money because we choose not to play in your bs tourney setting.

While the argument that they don't NEED it because they "don't play in tournies" is technically correct...I wouldn't form the basis of my counter argument on that. People still want it and it will improve their games. I base my counter argument on a. Not wanting to set a precedent for a card only pack in any form and b. The supposition that a stand alone pack would be a loser of a sku for ffg...else they would have put it out or announced it.

The whiners have plenty of ways to get this deck should they choose to...they know this and we know this...but we shall see what the future holds...

I stupidly waste money all the time on this game, that is my prerogative and that doesn't make it any less stupid.

I have 3 transports for crying out loud. No excuses for that level of dumb waste.

I've also never competed in a single tournament.

Except I want to play with a well designed damage deck.

Then get a new core set.

Or just proxy the cards. Print out the new ones, sleeve them in front of the old ones. Magic, new damage deck. This isn't hard. If you're not playing at tournaments, even buying a stand alone deck is a stupid waste of money.

I wouldn't call it a stupid waste money. Everyone wants the most up to date damage deck. I play casually and would prefer to have the newest deck as it affects how the game is played...tourney it not. The wording of your post smacks of the "tourney players don't mean squat" attitude that is so prevalent on this board and that I alluded to in my very first post on this subject...that attitude needs to be done away with. You "competitive" people need to realize that you aren't the most important segment of the game...the.game doesn't revolve around you...

While I find all this wailing and knashing of teeth over this to be utterly stupid and self serving...none of you have any right to tel me or any other "casual" that we are "wasting" our money because we choose not to play in your bs tourney setting.

While the argument that they don't NEED it because they "don't play in tournies" is technically correct...I wouldn't form the basis of my counter argument on that. People still want it and it will improve their games. I base my counter argument on a. Not wanting to set a precedent for a card only pack in any form and b. The supposition that a stand alone pack would be a loser of a sku for ffg...else they would have put it out or announced it.

The whiners have plenty of ways to get this deck should they choose to...they know this and we know this...but we shall see what the future holds...

I don't think you read my post before making a lot of assumptions. I described exactly how a non-tournament player should go about getting a new damage deck if they don't want a new core box but want "a well designed damage deck". I think in that situation, paying for a stand alone damage deck is a stupid waste of money.

I stupidly waste money all the time on this game, that is my prerogative and that doesn't make it any less stupid.

I have 3 transports for crying out loud. No excuses for that level of dumb waste.

I've also never competed in a single tournament.

Oh I read your post first...and I stand by my words in regards to the "competitive" segment. The "competitive" segment of this board and their delusions of superiority grind my gears to no end and I feel the need to call it out where ever I see it...You werent the first person to suggest that just because someone doesnt play in tournies they shouldnt be getting this deck...the bolded part is the crux of the point I was trying to make. Sorry for throwing you in with them but I felt your post smacked of that attitude I referenced (the whole dumb waste of money comment.) I dont follow you in particular and am not familiar with your post history...forgive me for making those assumptions.

Wanting to play with the official cards is not something most of us would consider to be a dumb waste of money. Yes there are a multitude of ways one can get around paying SOMETHING...but I dont think that was ever what the discussion was about now was it?

So in the end it may be dumb for you...but based on the responses in this thread and the level of emotion in said responses I would wager most dont think it as dumb as you do. Sorry again for lumping you in with "those" people...but you sounded like one...you may not have meant to...but as far as I am concerned you did...Ill keep this post in mind in the future so I can take your posts with your background in mind...

Wanting to play with the official cards is not something most of us would consider to be a dumb waste of money. Yes there are a multitude of ways one can get around paying SOMETHING...but I dont think that was ever what the discussion was about now was it?

My reading of all of these threads goes something like this:

1. I'm a tourney player and I don't want the new core because reason (I play scum, I have an irrational hatred of video Star Wars post 1986, etc). It's not fair that I am forced by draconian malevolence to pay $40 for damage cards (I wish I was exaggerating in all cases). Sell me stand alone damage cards you evil monsters! (still not always exaggerating).

2. Some point out FFG probably won't release stand alone cards and nobody is forcing you to do anything. This is more pedanticism than anything, but it's what hyperbole deserves.

3. Others point out there are several ways to get a damage deck and they really need to quit saying forced and draconian as it's annoying and not getting anywhere

4. all who didn't rail against FFG are called apologists and psycophants who hate anyone who dares criticize FFG.

5. Lessons on capitalism are explained

6. Repeat the cycle.

So back to your statement, as far as I can see, getting around paying FFG for the core is the entire premise of these threads. So yes, that is what we're discussing. There is no current other way to pay FFG for that deck. There are lots of ways to get it or a useable facsimile, which is what we're saying.

Would it be helpful if FFG released the deck? Sure, but that's not currently the world we live in. Posters need to stop ignoring solutions or show a little patience to see if gets resolved or easier to get. Tourney goers have until January, the rest of us have no deadline and can use proxy cards until a more acceptable solution (to them) is presented.

The person I was addressing had a post about being offended that FFG dare even release the core set in September because Spoilers! How rude of them. I'm not exaggerating. Sometimes calling someone entitled is actually factually correct.

There are lots of stupid wastes of money in this game. Indulging in OCD behavior is stupidity that makes one feel better. I have 6 HWKs because you can fit 6 in 100 points. That is stupid. Buying an extra dice pack to avoid rerolling is a lesser degree of stupid, but essentially a stupid waste of money. You can print out a sheet of paper that tells you what the damage card does different, buying a whole replacement is stupid. We do this all the time with errata'd cards, unless you specifically bought new expansions to get the updated text on cards (I doubt it)

Wanting to play with the official cards is not something most of us would consider to be a dumb waste of money. Yes there are a multitude of ways one can get around paying SOMETHING...but I dont think that was ever what the discussion was about now was it?

In regards to the competitive segment, I don't really care, that's their thing, it doesn't particularly involve me (also your wording on weather or not they matter is really confusing in the post I quoted last time) but I wanted to focus on this statement.

My reading of all of these threads goes something like this:

1. I'm a tourney player and I don't want the new core because reason (I play scum, I have an irrational hatred of video Star Wars post 1986, etc). It's not fair that I am forced by draconian malevolence to pay $40 for damage cards (I wish I was exaggerating in all cases). Sell me stand alone damage cards you evil monsters! (still not always exaggerating).

2. Some point out FFG probably won't release stand alone cards and nobody is forcing you to do anything. This is more pedanticism than anything, but it's what hyperbole deserves.

3. Others point out there are several ways to get a damage deck and they really need to quit saying forced and draconian as it's annoying and not getting anywhere

4. all who didn't rail against FFG are called apologists and psycophants who hate anyone who dares criticize FFG.

5. Lessons on capitalism are explained

6. Repeat the cycle.

So back to your statement, as far as I can see, getting around paying FFG for the core is the entire premise of these threads. So yes, that is what we're discussing. There is no current other way to pay FFG for that deck. There are lots of ways to get it or a useable facsimile, which is what we're saying.

Would it be helpful if FFG released the deck? Sure, but that's not currently the world we live in. Posters need to stop ignoring solutions or show a little patience to see if gets resolved or easier to get. Tourney goers have until January, the rest of us have no deadline and can use proxy cards until a more acceptable solution (to them) is presented.

The person I was addressing had a post about being offended that FFG dare even release the core set in September because Spoilers! How rude of them. I'm not exaggerating. Sometimes calling someone entitled is actually factually correct.

You and I are actually in full agreement here your points are spot on. I have participated in more than one thread of this kind...and have been following this since the beginning (see post #9)...I see a few people on the other side that I always see (including the person you referenced.)

I might not have been clear enough in he post you referenced...most of these people just want a stand alone deck to be sold, concequences to FFG are irrelevant as long as they get what they want. They do want to pay something for it...just not for the whole core. So you are correct they dont want to pay for the core and I see that...but most of them are willing to pay for a stand alone as long as it is packaged just like they want it, at the cheap as free price they expect and as long as it doesnt come from Ebay it seems. So they are willing to pay something which is what your quoted post was about.

I just took issue with the whole dumb waste of money statement which seems to have been resolved.

So in the end it seems you and I are on the same side and shouldnt even be arguing...

Thick fanboy brains eh?

Is this finally an excuse to get this thread locked? I shall report it and find out.

Don't like anyone questioning peoples ability to think? Or is it that you just don't like people that have the gall to actually make valid points that show flaws in the player base, the game, or FFG?. I think it's all needed. So report away bub!

Tell you what. Find me a valid point in your post. I'll wait.

So it's not a valid point that you don't need the upgrade cards at all to play a tournament or casual game? It's not a player flaw that they they think they must have those cards and feel they are being forced to buy those ships to play?

So it's not a valid point that FFG considers both starters as valid entry points? Source https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/9/16/ but they then make the new one required by their tournament rules. That isn't a flaw? Sure looks like one to me, known as hypocrisy.

Remember valid does not mean fits your narrative, it means it has factual basis and my points do!

The first two weren't even really points in your post as I read it, though I'd argue that desire to collect all the different cards isn't a flaw.

The latter point is yes, the core sets are both completely valid, and the OT core set is being reprinted. So, that's a nonissue.

I'll grant that it would be a bit regrettable if someone bought a new OT core set and it'd have the old decks, but I'm pretty confident FFG support would fix that up for them, one issue here I would grant is newer players who don't know about the difference and want to do tournaments could potentially suffer.

So... what was your point again?

And I guess your point is that you just dismiss any view that reflects poorly on the things you think are perfectly acceptable because your opinion and view is always correct in your mind. I guess having an actual discussion with you and the FFG can do no wrong crowd, and the competitive elitists is pointless. It's not going to stop me though. Good day!

Yeah, I added a bit explaining why a stand alone deck purchase for non tourney players is stupid. I stand by it, people just need to accept that things they want to do are sometimes stupid. And again, I have stupidly spent more money than is reasonable in many cases with this game because I wanted to. It's just who I am.

So it's not a valid point that FFG considers both starters as valid entry points? Source https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/9/16/ but they then make the new one required by their tournament rules. That isn't a flaw? Sure looks like one to me, known as hypocrisy.

Remember valid does not mean fits your narrative, it means it has factual basis and my points do!

You're assuming that reprints of the original box set will contain the original damage deck.

Future reprints of the original box set may well include the new damage deck - in which case, both box sets will indeed be perfectly valid entry points for the game, and both will also be legal for tournaments.

Obviously you can't apply your argument to pre-existing box sets which were printed before the new damage deck was introduced, that's patently absurd.

Oh yes, FUTURE reprints may have the new deck, but right now how many old ones are in the retail chain? I know it's not just a few, and most likely in the high thousands+. How many people are going to buy those old starters not having any clue as to there even being a new damage deck in any box? That's the biggest kicker, new purchasers are going to get a rude awakening that will leave them with a low opinion of the game or it's publisher. Is that what everyone here wants because they're so tied up with tournament play they don't care about new people. See I care about the hobby as a whole, and I like this game, but I don't want a large number of folks first experience into the hobby to leave them feeling taken advantage of over a stupid deck in a new starter because they wanted to do a tournament. I guess I'm strange like that.

You are correct, going by the current published opinion of FFG both should be valid for any event they sponsor, but then they go and do otherwise with the tournament rules. They've kept eerily silent on the mater, is the tournament scene where their heart lies and they just pay the "casuals" lip service with all the casual and new player stuff they publish or do they really care about the casuals and new players ?

When did $32 - $34 become the breaking point for people in this game? The only people that should be worried about this freakin deck are competitive players....who should be able to afford 1.....just 1 copy of this new core set.

http://www.coolstuffinc.com/p/219440 - $28 + shipping

http://www.cardhaus.com/catalog/board_games/star_wars_xwing__the_force_awakens_core_set/345733 - $26 + shipping

You get 3 ships, upgrades, extra dice, new damage deck, and spare movement templates......the ships alone are $30 + $6 for the dice. Think of it as getting that with a $2 coupon, freebies, and you dignity for not whining about something that costs less than a single large ship at retail!