No shields and no cards is an excessively specific state to use a four point card without risk

Reliable, it is not.

Every good player who uses r2d2 shoots to for that! Heck on the falcon with double droids you are actively wanting that situation to happen! with both droids you can not use c3p0 or try and guess 1 to depending on who's rolling what to try and get to 0 shields left with no cards. Any ship that can take c3p0 is better served by taking r2d2 usually. The only ship i wouldnt put r2d2 on is B-wings. Listen to Jeff B talk about it, he's the guy who made r2d2 popular in the first place.

I really want to revisit the whole discussion of "Predator Brobots beat TLT spam" for a second, though. I'm no Mathwinger, but I really have trouble with this one.

Let's assume Brobots are built buzzsaw style with HLC. They are getting 2 4-dice shots on Y's with 8 HP each. Y's are putting 8 3 dice attacks on Bro's with 8HP each. Yes only one gets through when it hits, still that's pretty consistent damage output. AT BEST, assuming all dice are in their favor, Bro's could drop a Y on the first turn of combat. However, it's far more likely that they take at least one more turn to drop the guy. Meanwhile, even with the Bro's agility and AT, TLT's are likely to drop one of them through his shields in assuming they can all get range, and with some bad dice rolls they could drop one completely. Now here's the thing: let's assume the likely scenario of everyone is still up after round 1. Second round of combat the Bros can drop that wounded Y and then, there's a good chance one of them dies in the next round or two.

Maybe a really good Bro pilot can close the gap and get into the donut on the Y's. Is it possible for them to take down TLTs? Sure. But I don't think it's a "chew them up" sort of scenario. It's like facing a turretted 8 ship swarm where you have to kill 2 of them before both stop shooting you.

Sure every good player can magically control the dice to only deal enough damage to break shields but not hull. They must be Jedi like gin from the phantom menace because I sure can't do that

Uh huh

Well, maybe if he has c3po and an evade token. Wonder how we can get those on miri...

Again, reliable it is not

Reliable is knowing, once per round and regardless of any condition such as how many shields you have, that your green die won't screw you over

I think the game is best when it's a bunch of generics dueling it out with 4+ ship counts. When I come to the tournament day and see 2 quad B-Wing lists, a quad A-Wing list, a triple K-Wing list, a Quad Advanced Quad AC and Cluster Missiles list, I get excited. Here is the game where PS Bidding is nuanced, squads at best soft counter each other, and flying ability is the deciding factor. Not whole games being decided entirely by one side not having VI to get to PS 9+.

And thats really what it is right, your opinion. There are higher PS pilots and aces in this game for a reason. Personally i like 3-4ship squads the best, which is usually 2aces+filler. Is my opinion less valid?

Also, i have a slight suspicion you haven't really seen high tiers of competetive play. There are good players who were doing fine with low ps builds already, it will just be much more commong now with TLTs taking over.

Just let me say this, there will always be ships who are higher on the power curve than others and these are exactly the ships that top-tier competetive players are going to play. Doesn't matter if its Phantoms or PWTs or TLTs.

It's the same in every game and pretty much the nature of competetive play, so for your own sake i hope you dont spend the next few years complaining on the forums about the next big thing that bothers you.

Let me clarify a bit. I don't mind named pilots in general. 2 aces and 2 generics, be my guest. Fly Carnor Jax and Soontir with a shuttle to your heart's content. What I have a problem with are super ships that can just strip all the nuance from the game, like Fat turrets and Super Corran. A blob of 4 TLT's accomplishes much the same thing in the way of nuance stripping, but it knocks out fat turrets and the counters to it are nuanced. Necessary evil.

I prefer the game when it comes down to flying ability and not just winning in the list building phase. When ships have limitations it's more interesting for me to overcome them than just play a super ship. For example I would enjoy playing 5x Alpha Autoceptors instead of a Soontir/Whisper based build. When flying 'vanilla' builds battles are won or lost based on flying ability and asteroid placement, not whether or not you have PS over your opponent's ACD Phantom, or if you had to choose between Mangler/HLC Dash and you picked the wrong one for your matchup. Upgrade choice still matters with generics, it's just not as hyper important as when the meta is entirely Corran/Dash vs. Soontir/Whisper and Decimator.

Swarms and B-Wing spams are still the normal game, just optimized. Your ships still only move once a turn, have to get something in arc, attack once a turn, and it matters whether or not they get actions. Things like Super Dash ignore all that.

This is why I like the TLT spam meta. It encourages 'normal' lists, the types of lists that play the way thus game seems to have been intended. Lists where your ship doesn't attack twice, doesn't get a free TL, can't perform two actions, and can't regenerate a shield for doing a manuever that's only /slightly/ sub-optimal.

So Brobots losing enough shields but not dying gives away too many MoV?

4 small ships is getting very strong?

HELLO IG-88A and IG-88B.

Get back some shields against lists that are pushing to get more small ships.

Sure every good player can magically control the dice to only deal enough damage to break shields but not hull. They must be Jedi like gin from the phantom menace because I sure can't do that

Uh huh

Well, maybe if he has c3po and an evade token. Wonder how we can get those on miri...

Again, reliable it is not

Reliable is knowing, once per round and regardless of any condition such as how many shields you have, that your green die won't screw you over

R2d2 does that and more. He gives you the option to regen a shield for last ditch offensive shots, he will actually let you have a better chance on capitalizing when gunner ships roll poorly, and give a chance for the crit to go against the shields. All of that for 1 point more makes it a better choice for Miranda.

R2d2 gives you an option to regent a shield IF (under only if) you end the round with no shields

R2d2 will give better chance against gunner (again if and only if you have no shields at the end of the round) provided gunner ever triggers on a 1 agi ship.

C3po, meanwhile, will save you one damage (one shield) per round guaranteed (none of that 3/8ths bull, green dice are asses and They will not give extra evades off a focus result nor let you save your focus for a tlt shot)

Furthermore, c3po can actually save you from death. If you don't make it to the end phase r2 just shrugs his nonexistent shoulders

Hell, unlike c3po, r2 can actually get Miranda killed with that stupid card flipping trick of his. The new deck at least won't have you chucking your tlt but there is nothing in there you particularly want to take.

R2d2 crew is a fine card on certain ships. Hes infuriating on han behind c3po and evade and he'll be infuriating on Ghost behind 12 hull and DAT evade. Hell, he's even potent on Dash apparently.

On miri? Not only does she not have the means to abuse him, she actively works against him because her main gimmick (reigning shields) can actually shut him off.

R2d2 gives you an option to regent a shield IF (under only if) you end the round with no shields

R2d2 will give better chance against gunner (again if and only if you have no shields at the end of the round) provided gunner ever triggers on a 1 agi ship.

C3po, meanwhile, will save you one damage (one shield) per round guaranteed (none of that 3/8ths bull, green dice are asses and They will not give extra evades off a focus result nor let you save your focus for a tlt shot)

Furthermore, c3po can actually save you from death. If you don't make it to the end phase r2 just shrugs his nonexistent shoulders

Hell, unlike c3po, r2 can actually get Miranda killed with that stupid card flipping trick of his. The new deck at least won't have you chucking your tlt but there is nothing in there you particularly want to take.

R2d2 crew is a fine card on certain ships. Hes infuriating on han behind c3po and evade and he'll be infuriating on Ghost behind 12 hull and DAT evade. Hell, he's even potent on Dash apparently.

On miri? Not only does she not have the means to abuse him, she actively works against him because her main gimmick (reigning shields) can actually shut him off.

How long do you plan to have your miranda running around with shields? she is a k wing which means she drops them fast.

This is why I like the TLT spam meta. It encourages 'normal' lists, the types of lists that play the way thus game seems to have been intended. Lists where your ship doesn't attack twice, doesn't get a free TL, can't perform two actions, and can't regenerate a shield for doing a manuever that's only /slightly/ sub-optimal.

But ships with TLT do technically attack twice, according to the new FAQ =P

I really want to revisit the whole discussion of "Predator Brobots beat TLT spam" for a second, though. I'm no Mathwinger, but I really have trouble with this one.

Let's assume Brobots are built buzzsaw style with HLC. They are getting 2 4-dice shots on Y's with 8 HP each. Y's are putting 8 3 dice attacks on Bro's with 8HP each. Yes only one gets through when it hits, still that's pretty consistent damage output. AT BEST, assuming all dice are in their favor, Bro's could drop a Y on the first turn of combat. However, it's far more likely that they take at least one more turn to drop the guy. Meanwhile, even with the Bro's agility and AT, TLT's are likely to drop one of them through his shields in assuming they can all get range, and with some bad dice rolls they could drop one completely. Now here's the thing: let's assume the likely scenario of everyone is still up after round 1. Second round of combat the Bros can drop that wounded Y and then, there's a good chance one of them dies in the next round or two.

Maybe a really good Bro pilot can close the gap and get into the donut on the Y's. Is it possible for them to take down TLTs? Sure. But I don't think it's a "chew them up" sort of scenario. It's like facing a turretted 8 ship swarm where you have to kill 2 of them before both stop shooting you.

Plus: PS advantage. Plus: Autothrusters. It's not an autowin or anything, but it's probably the single toughest matchup that TLT spam will face.

R2d2 gives you an option to regent a shield IF (under only if) you end the round with no shields

R2d2 will give better chance against gunner (again if and only if you have no shields at the end of the round) provided gunner ever triggers on a 1 agi ship.

C3po, meanwhile, will save you one damage (one shield) per round guaranteed (none of that 3/8ths bull, green dice are asses and They will not give extra evades off a focus result nor let you save your focus for a tlt shot)

Furthermore, c3po can actually save you from death. If you don't make it to the end phase r2 just shrugs his nonexistent shoulders

Hell, unlike c3po, r2 can actually get Miranda killed with that stupid card flipping trick of his. The new deck at least won't have you chucking your tlt but there is nothing in there you particularly want to take.

R2d2 crew is a fine card on certain ships. Hes infuriating on han behind c3po and evade and he'll be infuriating on Ghost behind 12 hull and DAT evade. Hell, he's even potent on Dash apparently.

On miri? Not only does she not have the means to abuse him, she actively works against him because her main gimmick (reigning shields) can actually shut him off.

How long do you plan to have your miranda running around with shields? she is a k wing which means she drops them fast.

A kwing with c3po*

So, always as long as she isn't being focus fired

R2d2 gives you an option to regent a shield IF (under only if) you end the round with no shields

R2d2 will give better chance against gunner (again if and only if you have no shields at the end of the round) provided gunner ever triggers on a 1 agi ship.

C3po, meanwhile, will save you one damage (one shield) per round guaranteed (none of that 3/8ths bull, green dice are asses and They will not give extra evades off a focus result nor let you save your focus for a tlt shot)

Furthermore, c3po can actually save you from death. If you don't make it to the end phase r2 just shrugs his nonexistent shoulders

Hell, unlike c3po, r2 can actually get Miranda killed with that stupid card flipping trick of his. The new deck at least won't have you chucking your tlt but there is nothing in there you particularly want to take.

R2d2 crew is a fine card on certain ships. Hes infuriating on han behind c3po and evade and he'll be infuriating on Ghost behind 12 hull and DAT evade. Hell, he's even potent on Dash apparently.

On miri? Not only does she not have the means to abuse him, she actively works against him because her main gimmick (reigning shields) can actually shut him off.

How long do you plan to have your miranda running around with shields? she is a k wing which means she drops them fast.

A kwing with c3po*

So, always as long as she isn't being focus fired

The way to keep a K-wing alive is judicious use of slam to get out of (too many) arcs, but that doesn't combo with Miranda as she loses her ability to regen. That is where R2-D2 comes in. She can Slam and still get a shield back. It also gives her the ability to use a shield for offense and still get one back at the end of the turn, a big part of Miranda's strength is that you can switch to a 4 dice range 1 attack when you need to do more damage. It means people don't want to get into the donut hole.

How about, it depends on your playstyle? Both options are valid depending on how you want to fly her. Heck, Chewie's a good option on her to negate some crits. Chewie's saved my butt a few times on her. I still do like C-3P0 more now on Miranda, but any option is nice. Just depends on how you want to fly her.

R2d2 gives you an option to regent a shield IF (under only if) you end the round with no shields

R2d2 will give better chance against gunner (again if and only if you have no shields at the end of the round) provided gunner ever triggers on a 1 agi ship.

C3po, meanwhile, will save you one damage (one shield) per round guaranteed (none of that 3/8ths bull, green dice are asses and They will not give extra evades off a focus result nor let you save your focus for a tlt shot)

Furthermore, c3po can actually save you from death. If you don't make it to the end phase r2 just shrugs his nonexistent shoulders

Hell, unlike c3po, r2 can actually get Miranda killed with that stupid card flipping trick of his. The new deck at least won't have you chucking your tlt but there is nothing in there you particularly want to take.

R2d2 crew is a fine card on certain ships. Hes infuriating on han behind c3po and evade and he'll be infuriating on Ghost behind 12 hull and DAT evade. Hell, he's even potent on Dash apparently.

On miri? Not only does she not have the means to abuse him, she actively works against him because her main gimmick (reigning shields) can actually shut him off.

Having tried both C-3P0 and R2-D2 on Miri, I much prefer R2. Your point about C-3P0 being "1 guaranteed damage a turn" negated is no longer true against a 1 agility ship's biggest nemesis, the tlt.

As to not being able to trigger R2 in optimal conditions, I am not sure how you choose to fly Miri, but with R2 on board not only do you get to consistently use her regen ability but you will also frequently be in a good position to add attack dice with no net loss of shields over a turn. Having played this against quite a few tlt carriers, if R2 Miri gets 2v1 it is a very difficult matchup for tlts between SLAM and regen. If she gets 1v1, it is next to auto win Miri, the same can't be said for C-3P0 Miri.

Maybe this is a newb question, but what about Lando with Miranda? Getting a go at 2 Focus or Dodge seems awfully useful.

Maybe this is a newb question, but what about Lando with Miranda? Getting a go at 2 Focus or Dodge seems awfully useful.

I like that a lot as well, especially if a buddy has Jan Ors, but he's swingy and takes an action (so bad news if you bump). But again, depends on how you fly her. I like his power a lot, so I'd consider it.