Miranda will be popular as she is essentially a large turret ship with everything she can field but didn't get nerfed with the tourny update for mov.

Yeah! Other than an EPT, more than one crew, 10+ hit points and 3+ natural red dice, what have the fat turrets got that Miranda hasn't got?

Miranda's great. She's just a bloody awful points fortress.

also

large base boost

evade action

gob-smacking dial

to the general x-wing playerbase: don't get me wrong, Miranda is lovely pilot on a hilarious ship and she's very effective, but if you expect to just trundle around like you're a fat PWT you're going to get stomped

unlike PWTs, Miranda has to make actual decisions. There's no just die rolling and applying action independent benefits with her, everything you do has a cost and consequence

SLAM? no shooting

Shield regen? lose a die

Gain a die? lose a shield

No shields? No extra dice

at range 1, a shieldless Miranda becomes a huge liability. 3 dice at range 1 without action efficiency is not impressive, and it makes things worse if she's forced to regen shields and fart out a pitiful 2-dice

basically, Miranda can actually be outplayed. Don't rely on m.o.v whoring and bad dice to carry you through the day.

Yeah, AGI 1 with poor action efficiency is not a point fortress.

She's not a point fortress but you can load her up and she can survive AND she has no range 1 donut. She placed well in the last 2 tournaments I went to( 1 of which I won with kavil,drea and trandoshan slaver)

Stealth buff for IG88 A!!

Regen your shields, and regen your MOV at the same time.

This has the potential to hurt FFG financially as they made more money on the large ships. If folks pull back on running them and they drop off the top of list juggler and squad ranker, their sales will plummet. This is also very odd considering the 0 agi rebel ship coming in wave 8 and the 2 agi turret for scum.

The amount that this rule change nerfs large-based ships outside of timed tournament play: zero.

I think FFG's bottom line is safe. And if it isn't? Good for them placing game balance and long-term viability over short-term profits.

Mark my words, in a few months everyone will be complaining about tlt's and how they are overpowered and need a nerf and then they'll somehow nerf them until something else comes out. This whole "nerfing" thing will not stop now that it has started. IMHO, it would have been better just to give other ships some help(like the Tie-A title, the interceptor title, etc) rather than cripple the large based ships in tournament. Making other ships more attractive to run rather than making large based ships unattractive to run would have been a better strategy.

When I flew Biggs Walks the Hawks I got crushed by quad Green Squadron A-Wings each with Predator and PtL.

TLT's are the best thing to happen to this game since the Phantom nerf.

You and I both like them yes, but the whining majority will get them nerfed too. Watch and see.

Yeah, AGI 1 with poor action efficiency is not a point fortress.

She's not a point fortress but you can load her up and she can survive AND she has no range 1 donut. She placed well in the last 2 tournaments I went to( 1 of which I won with kavil,drea and trandoshan slaver)

technically true, but in practice it's misleading

it's not as noticeable as dash, but Miranda sucks at range 1

the only time you want to be there is if you're not getting targeted (so full shields) and you've set up a TL on a prior turn

at any other time, you will be outdiced by pretty much everything especially if you're hurting yourself to get a standard amount of attack dice (because not only is she losing a shield; she's giving up her ability to regen as well)

basically, only ever range 1 if something really needs to die or if you need to protect your squadmates with a semi-decent range 1 PWT

This has the potential to hurt FFG financially as they made more money on the large ships. If folks pull back on running them and they drop off the top of list juggler and squad ranker, their sales will plummet. This is also very odd considering the 0 agi rebel ship coming in wave 8 and the 2 agi turret for scum.

There are LOADS more people who collect and play X-Wing casually than those who've ever played at a tournament.

The amount that this rule change nerfs large-based ships outside of timed tournament play: zero.

I think FFG's bottom line is safe. And if it isn't? Good for them placing game balance and long-term viability over short-term profits.

Maybe but typically the only folks that buy ALL of the ships are tournament players. Everyone I meet at tournaments has just about everything from every faction. Those I meet at casual game nights certainly do not.

Yeah, AGI 1 with poor action efficiency is not a point fortress.

She's not a point fortress but you can load her up and she can survive AND she has no range 1 donut. She placed well in the last 2 tournaments I went to( 1 of which I won with kavil,drea and trandoshan slaver)

technically true, but in practice it's misleading

it's not as noticeable as dash, but Miranda sucks at range 1

the only time you want to be there is if you're not getting targeted (so full shields) and you've set up a TL on a prior turn

at any other time, you will be outdiced by pretty much everything especially if you're hurting yourself to get a standard amount of attack dice (because not only is she losing a shield; she's giving up her ability to regen as well)

basically, only ever range 1 if something really needs to die or if you need to protect your squadmates with a semi-decent range 1 PWT

...Or against a dash with hlc or ywing with tlt.

you mean, if you get into range 1 of Dash

and that's without SLAM

spoiler alert: not easy to do (bastard displaces space like an astrophysicist)

TLT Ys are easier, but if they have arc on you they're actually throwing the same amount of dice, and that's just sad

This has the potential to hurt FFG financially as they made more money on the large ships. If folks pull back on running them and they drop off the top of list juggler and squad ranker, their sales will plummet. This is also very odd considering the 0 agi rebel ship coming in wave 8 and the 2 agi turret for scum.

There are LOADS more people who collect and play X-Wing casually than those who've ever played at a tournament.

The amount that this rule change nerfs large-based ships outside of timed tournament play: zero.

I think FFG's bottom line is safe. And if it isn't? Good for them placing game balance and long-term viability over short-term profits.

Maybe but typically the only folks that buy ALL of the ships are tournament players. Everyone I meet at tournaments has just about everything from every faction. Those I meet at casual game nights certainly do not.

(patiently awaits the return of the large ship complaints when they still win)

(patiently awaits the return of the large ship complaints when they still win)

Not if I'm playing nothing but quad TLT!

I like it.

Partial MoV would be the theoretical ideal, of course, but this is the simplest nerf present.

I find the article talking about being able to 'bank' points to be an interesting synonym to the point fortress too...

The rules for half points for large ships are for calculating the winner of the match. They are clearly in the End of Match section right in the paragraph about determining the winner of the match. There is nothing to suggest that the half points only apply to the MoV.

Jim

But only if the match goes to time. If I have a Falcon with 1 hull left and I table my opponent he gets nothing from that.

I feel like this year will be the year of Rebel Control. If you can fly them well enough, those lists don't really have any weaknesses; they can control the large ships, lock down the aces, and have enough hull to beat out TLTs -- the perfect build for this meta.

I hear that a lot regarding Rebel Control, but they have the same problems vs highly mobile aces that BBBB variants have.

I hear that a lot regarding Rebel Control, but they have the same problems vs highly mobile aces that BBBB variants have.

not really the same

similar, but far far far less

ever seen a double stressed soontir? you just feel sorry for the poor guy

I'm pretty certain that a player only scores half the fat ships points if the game goes to time.

If the Fat Ship squad has its Fat ship at 1 hp, and its escort is still alive, while ALL of the enemy ships are destroyed, then the Fat Ship player wins 100-0, scoring 200 MoV. Can someone please tell me if I am seeing this wrong? It looks like this ruling is in an entirely separate bullet point, and FFG would've made a note of it in the first bullet point if they wanted it to matter in matches where you table your opponent.

TBH, in the past 20-30 Premier level, 75 minute matches I've played while running a large base ship, VERY few have actually gone to time, and even less have had a low HP fat ship be the deciding factor in victory. I can think of about 1 that mattered a lot...

I think the new rule does a good job balancing small ship only squads with fat squads in those situations where the clear victor was the small ship squad, but the fat ship survived at low HP when time was called. This, however, is not all that common, but DID need to be addressed. FFG's ruling seems to cover it very well.

some here are reacting that same to this as players over in warmachine reacted to scenario objectives

guys, just because a condition didn't directly win you the game doesn't mean it wasn't responsible for engineering the scenario that let you win

if the fat bastards can no longer lead you on a merry-go-round because there is no need to chase him because your squad might actually be worth more than his fat ass for once, you get to dictate the terms of engagement (knowing that, if the game goes to time, you win)

This has the potential to hurt FFG financially as they made more money on the large ships. If folks pull back on running them and they drop off the top of list juggler and squad ranker, their sales will plummet. This is also very odd considering the 0 agi rebel ship coming in wave 8 and the 2 agi turret for scum.

There are LOADS more people who collect and play X-Wing casually than those who've ever played at a tournament.

The amount that this rule change nerfs large-based ships outside of timed tournament play: zero.

I think FFG's bottom line is safe. And if it isn't? Good for them placing game balance and long-term viability over short-term profits.

Maybe but typically the only folks that buy ALL of the ships are tournament players. Everyone I meet at tournaments has just about everything from every faction. Those I meet at casual game nights certainly do not.

Ive played in a total of two tournaments, the last one two years ago! Ive purchased multiples of every ship except Huges and the YV666, only one of each so far. I know more guys that play casually than tournaments and many buy ALL the ships with each new wave. Id guess there are a LOT like us!

4 TLT Y-wings is FAR more likely to win than 4BZ, both with or without the new rule change.

I agree with the Major.

4 TLT Y-wings is FAR more likely to win than 4BZ, both with or without the new rule change.

DAT (SCUM?) GLORY!

Kavil stomps a mud-hole in Fels ass?!

... YOW!

This has the potential to hurt FFG financially as they made more money on the large ships. If folks pull back on running them and they drop off the top of list juggler and squad ranker, their sales will plummet. This is also very odd considering the 0 agi rebel ship coming in wave 8 and the 2 agi turret for scum.

There are LOADS more people who collect and play X-Wing casually than those who've ever played at a tournament.

The amount that this rule change nerfs large-based ships outside of timed tournament play: zero.

I think FFG's bottom line is safe. And if it isn't? Good for them placing game balance and long-term viability over short-term profits.

Maybe but typically the only folks that buy ALL of the ships are tournament players. Everyone I meet at tournaments has just about everything from every faction. Those I meet at casual game nights certainly do not.

Ive played in a total of two tournaments, the last one two years ago! Ive purchased multiples of every ship except Huges and the YV666, only one of each so far. I know more guys that play casually than tournaments and many buy ALL the ships with each new wave. Id guess there are a LOT like us!

I have multiples of all small base ships, multiples of some large base ships and multiples of the transport, and at least one of every release. I have played in two tournaments and really have no desire to play in any more tournaments because I enjoy the game more as a game than a competition. I continue to play in game nights with the seasonal kits and that's as close as I will get to tournaments from here on out. I have to agree with Plainsman that there are many of us who play the game because it's fun and can not stand when the tourney players think they are the only ones who buy all of FFG's products. I would love for there to be some way to track competitive players versus casual players purchases, but I'm afraid that may hurt some of the competitive players egos that think the way they play the game is far and wide the most popular way to play and fuels the sales of this game. I'm pretty sure the number of people who play at home or at casual game days at the FLGS far out number the competitive players.

I'm pretty certain that a player only scores half the fat ships points if the game goes to time.

If the Fat Ship squad has its Fat ship at 1 hp, and its escort is still alive, while ALL of the enemy ships are destroyed, then the Fat Ship player wins 100-0, scoring 200 MoV. Can someone please tell me if I am seeing this wrong? It looks like this ruling is in an entirely separate bullet point, and FFG would've made a note of it in the first bullet point if they wanted it to matter in matches where you table your opponent.

TBH, in the past 20-30 Premier level, 75 minute matches I've played while running a large base ship, VERY few have actually gone to time, and even less have had a low HP fat ship be the deciding factor in victory. I can think of about 1 that mattered a lot...

I think the new rule does a good job balancing small ship only squads with fat squads in those situations where the clear victor was the small ship squad, but the fat ship survived at low HP when time was called. This, however, is not all that common, but DID need to be addressed. FFG's ruling seems to cover it very well.

This feels like an error. Judging by Alex's commentary I would guess it is supposed to apply to the MoV calculation as well. But the best evidence so far seems to be that without adding half points for large base ships to the MoV calculation, you can have a situation where a list wins but has MoV less than 100. Take 4 x Tactician B-wings (2 dead) versus Fat Han (half dead) and 3 Talas (all dead). The B's win the match with 50 points left to Han's 30, so it is a full win, but the MoV would be 89 - 111 in Han's favor, which makes no sense. This is why it fees like an error, having two different calculations is just going to create confusion.

I agree with you, this change is highly unlikely to make any difference in who actually wins the match, it just isn't a common occurance. It may have an impact on modified victories though (hopefully reducing them, but not necessarily).

One thing it does do is that the MoV for a two ship build is now much closer to that of a 4 ship build in terms of protecting points.

The reality for Worlds is that it changes very little. A few players will make the cut at the expense of others and the best player on the day (that makes the correct meta choices) will win. I think only Vader-Decimators will go extinct in the long run.

Fel/Vader/Palpashuttle is my bet.