4BZ wins worlds with the new large ship scoring.

I don't think that's a very safe bet. It's a strong list, but there are still arc-dodgers out there for whom BBBBZ is a light practice scrimmage on their way to a real game, and I think there will be enough of those around to provide low-PS Rebel lists with some serious competition.

Plus Plasma Torpedoes.

4 TLT Y-wings is FAR more likely to win than 4BZ, both with or without the new rule change.

nah, it's still going to be some fat ship garbage

I don't think ultra-competitive players are much in the habit of tossing out their most practiced squadrons just because of a scoring change

I'll predict Soontir/Vader/Palpatine.

The0rist also just pointed out that the new scoring only matters if you go to time. If you kill all of the opposing ships, it doesn't matter that your Decimator only had one hull. They're not getting any points for it.

4BZ looks weaker than ever with 4xTLTs being so popular with or without unhinged astromechs.

If XXX or XXXX wins I'll eat a sock.

nah, it's still going to be some fat ship garbage

I don't think ultra-competitive players are much in the habit of tossing out their most practiced squadrons just because of a scoring change

The best players, sure. But the best players won't be herdspooked anyway.

What this'll do is scare the masses that play PWT lists because they read they were good on the internets.

I'll predict Soontir/Vader/Palpatine.

The0rist also just pointed out that the new scoring only matters if you go to time. If you kill all of the opposing ships, it doesn't matter that your Decimator only had one hull. They're not getting any points for it.

The MoV calculation still matters in untimed games for two significant reasons:

1. It affects who makes the cut. Several 6-1 players will not make the cut at Worlds this year because of low MoV.
2. It directly affects the optimal tactics in a game that might go to time.

I'll predict Soontir/Vader/Palpatine.

The0rist also just pointed out that the new scoring only matters if you go to time. If you kill all of the opposing ships, it doesn't matter that your Decimator only had one hull. They're not getting any points for it.

Theorist is wrong here.

As MJ says, changing the way margin of victory is calculated affects tiebreakers for games that don't go to time, affects the way people play in a game that plausibly might go to time, and affects the win condition for games that do go to time.

It is going to be a subtle change, I think, but it's going to have a positive effect on the metagame as it gently pushes people away from two-ship builds and point-fortresses.

I'll predict Soontir/Vader/Palpatine.

The0rist also just pointed out that the new scoring only matters if you go to time. If you kill all of the opposing ships, it doesn't matter that your Decimator only had one hull. They're not getting any points for it.

The MoV calculation still matters in untimed games for two significant reasons:

1. It affects who makes the cut. Several 6-1 players will not make the cut at Worlds this year because of low MoV.
2. It directly affects the optimal tactics in a game that might go to time.

It also affects the list building thought process, discouraging ships that might be less effective in that situation.

By the way, have you had a chance to crunch the numbers on a T65 with Integrated Astromech?

I'll predict Soontir/Vader/Palpatine.

The0rist also just pointed out that the new scoring only matters if you go to time. If you kill all of the opposing ships, it doesn't matter that your Decimator only had one hull. They're not getting any points for it.

The MoV calculation still matters in untimed games for two significant reasons:

1. It affects who makes the cut. Several 6-1 players will not make the cut at Worlds this year because of low MoV.
2. It directly affects the optimal tactics in a game that might go to time.

Reading the tournament rules, though... is it explicitly noted that the new MOV calculation for large base ships applies to ALL games, or just those that go to time? I see where people are inferring it, but I am reading that section over and over and feeling like it isn't clear this is the case. In the MOV portion underneath the End of Match section, is it somehow implied?

The rules for half points for large ships are for calculating the winner of the match. They are clearly in the End of Match section right in the paragraph about determining the winner of the match. There is nothing to suggest that the half points only apply to the MoV.

Jim

Now who wins, I'm not sure, but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say at least 4 of the top 8 lists have at least 1 TLT included in the list.

nah, it's still going to be some fat ship garbage

I don't think ultra-competitive players are much in the habit of tossing out their most practiced squadrons just because of a scoring change

I don't think this is true at all. It is going to have a tremendous impact on MoV, and Worlds this year will see swathes of players on "good enough" win records miss the cut due to MoV. In conjunction with recent releases, there are plenty of reasons to reconsider rolling up with big bases.

It's gonna be Predator Brobots. It was already strong, and with TLT-spam pushing out a lot of the lists that can beat it, and with TLT-spam itself having a hard time with it, it's got a big leg up.

Dual IG's will take it. They deal decently with Fat Turretwing already and TLTurretwing especially. (Quad)TLT lists will be a strong contender and they may clear out some Fat Turretwing players early on, but it's likely some dual IG player will climb TLT mountain and reach the summit.

With an (expected) heavy showing from (quad) TLT lists and other non-two ship lists and the recent large base MoV change, IG-88 A may make a showing.

Dual IG's will take it. They deal decently with Fat Turretwing already and TLTurretwing especially. (Quad)TLT lists will be a strong contender and they may clear out some Fat Turretwing players early on, but it's likely some dual IG player will climb TLT mountain and reach the summit.

I think that's more or less what just happened in the Aussie Nationals, isn't it?

I think you'll see far fewer large based ship builds. 4 y wings with tlt will be popular and strong. Brobots got nerfed too so you only have to get their shields down to get half the points. You can kill 1 y-wing and have both brobots alive and still lose the match 50-25 with your opponent getting the full win and 125 point MOV.

Miranda will be popular as she is essentially a large turret ship with everything she can field but didn't get nerfed with the tourny update for mov.

4 B's will still be there and might gain popularity. 4 tie-a's with ac will also be there or have an ace with 3 tie-a's with AC. You could also see an ace with the tlt y's.

Mark my words, in a few months everyone will be complaining about tlt's and how they are overpowered and need a nerf and then they'll somehow nerf them until something else comes out. This whole "nerfing" thing will not stop now that it has started. IMHO, it would have been better just to give other ships some help(like the Tie-A title, the interceptor title, etc) rather than cripple the large based ships in tournament. Making other ships more attractive to run rather than making large based ships unattractive to run would have been a better strategy.

I'll predict Soontir/Vader/Palpatine.

The0rist also just pointed out that the new scoring only matters if you go to time. If you kill all of the opposing ships, it doesn't matter that your Decimator only had one hull. They're not getting any points for it.

The MoV calculation still matters in untimed games for two significant reasons:

• It affects who makes the cut. Several 6-1 players will not make the cut at Worlds this year because of low MoV.
• It directly affects the optimal tactics in a game that might go to time.

As an example to illustrate MJ's second point, I'm looking at this change in terms of a dual TIE Defender list. In the previous version of the rules, I had to make a Fatty the priority. If I didn't do a lot of damage before I lost a ship, it was probably a loss. Now I can nuke the support, and be pretty confident in putting half damage on the Fatty. At that point, the Fatty has to come after me, making it much easier to set up consistently damaging return shots.

I'll predict Soontir/Vader/Palpatine.

The0rist also just pointed out that the new scoring only matters if you go to time. If you kill all of the opposing ships, it doesn't matter that your Decimator only had one hull. They're not getting any points for it.

The MoV calculation still matters in untimed games for two significant reasons:

• It affects who makes the cut. Several 6-1 players will not make the cut at Worlds this year because of low MoV.
• It directly affects the optimal tactics in a game that might go to time.

As an example to illustrate MJ's second point, I'm looking at this change in terms of a dual TIE Defender list. In the previous version of the rules, I had to make a Fatty the priority. If I didn't do a lot of damage before I lost a ship, it was probably a loss. Now I can nuke the support, and be pretty confident in putting half damage on the Fatty. At that point, the Fatty has to come after me, making it much easier to set up consistently damaging return shots.

Making the defender better would have made more sense than nerfing the mov on large based ships. Give the defender something add more punch or more survivability. Fixes are always better than nerfs IMHO. The TIE-A title and the Royal Guard Title brought those ships back and they still continue to be strong now. Fixing other ships is better than nerfing ones that are powerful. I hardly run large turrets and have only run 1 once in tournament over a year and a half ago so I'm not saying this because I love to run them. The phantom nerf started this and now another nerf against a whole slew of ships. I fear a continued nerfing until we're only running Tie's against X-wings - lol.

This has the potential to hurt FFG financially as they made more money on the large ships. If folks pull back on running them and they drop off the top of list juggler and squad ranker, their sales will plummet. This is also very odd considering the 0 agi rebel ship coming in wave 8 and the 2 agi turret for scum.

Miranda will be popular as she is essentially a large turret ship with everything she can field but didn't get nerfed with the tourny update for mov.

Miranda's great. She's just a bloody awful points fortress.

Yeah, AGI 1 with poor action efficiency is not a point fortress.

Mark my words, in a few months everyone will be complaining about tlt's and how they are overpowered and need a nerf and then they'll somehow nerf them until something else comes out. This whole "nerfing" thing will not stop now that it has started. IMHO, it would have been better just to give other ships some help(like the Tie-A title, the interceptor title, etc) rather than cripple the large based ships in tournament. Making other ships more attractive to run rather than making large based ships unattractive to run would have been a better strategy.

When I flew Biggs Walks the Hawks I got crushed by quad Green Squadron A-Wings each with Predator and PtL.

TLT's are the best thing to happen to this game since the Phantom nerf.

Also, hey. Large based ships are still viable, maybe just not with 20 points of upgrades stacked on them. None of us Fat Turretwing haters mind Patrol Leader Decimators, and you don't HAVE to run Dash with 22 points of upgrades. Why not slap an HLC and Rec Spec on him and call it a day? Bounty Hunters are a good 33 points. *gasp* Might actually have to leave my point fortress and come up with an interesting build instead of stacking as many power upgrades together simultaneously.