I love the Khiraxz, but i sometimes find myself looking at it and wishing i had stretched for a star viper

Compare the cartel marauder to the black sun enforcer.

Marauder 20pts

Ps2 3/2/4/1 missile, illicit, mod

Focus, target lock

Black sun enforcer 25 points

Ps1 3/3/4/1 torpedo, mod

Focus, target lock, barrel roll, evade

The action bar and the extra point of agility are huge benefits, making it a great arc dodger through barrel roll and avoiding hits (useful with 1 shield) with high agility + evade.

When it comes to dials, the enforcer gets a green 1 straight, when the marauder doesnt even get a 1 straight. The enforcer also has another green on 3 straight, so 2 more than the marauder.

I cant decide which i prefer between the 4+5 k-turn and the s-loops, so it is hard to compare them.

The only thing the marauder gets is a small PS boost, a price drop, and access to illicit upgrades (which obviously cuts into your price drop).

Saying all that i do like the khiraxz and love the idea of fielding 2 together as a tag team. I just feel that you get so much more for just a few points with the viper.

Maybe it needs a party trick to make it unique?

Any thoughts?

Nah, the Kihrakz is actually significantly better as a generic- boost and barrel roll are much better at higher PS and unfortunately the StarViper generics are lacking in that department. I will say the StarViper aces are better than the K-fighter aces because they're on a ship that can do more(Talonbane dies way too often without having much impact for my taste).

As generics, though, the K-fighters blow starvipers out of the water.

Kihraxz is better value if you take into consideration the point difference though.

For example, for 25-26 pts:

PS5 Black Sun Ace + predator

PS2 Cartel Marauder + hull upgrade + glitterstim

PS6 Graz the Hunter

I would take any of those over a naked PS1 Starviper anyday.

I do think that a 1-straight would have been nice on the Kihraxz, but you can't have it all

Edit: PSs reversed

Kihraxz is better value if you take into consideration the point difference though.

For example, for 25 pts:

PS2 Black Sun Ace + predator

PS5 Cartel Marauder + hull upgrade + glitterstim

PS6 Graz the Hunter

I would take any of those over a naked PS1 Starviper anyday.

I do think that a 1-straight would have been nice on the Kihraxz, but you can't have it all

Your first two options are reversed, but I agree. For the points the Kihraxz is better as a low/mid PS machine. If only Talonbane had been a Starviper pilot...

Special-K generic is vastly more efficient than the Starviper generic

now if you're taking Cobra and find yourself wishing for V.I Xizor, that makes complete sense

Black Sun Ace is pilot skill 5 for 23 points. Predator would make him 26.

I wouldn't hesitate to throw an engine upgrade on him and Push the Limit instead, though. You could do worse for 30 points.

If only Talonbane had been a Starviper pilot...

That would have been pretty hot. I'm really curious as to what FFG's Starviper fix will be. It already has a title and autothrusters is near auto-include, so you'd think it has to be another slot. Maybe just another Chardaan Refit card?

Black Sun Ace is pilot skill 5 for 23 points. Predator would make him 26.

Ah you're right. Close enough

Also: the Starviper absolutely does NOT have the Evade action, if that changes your initial input. But it does have BR/Boost and therefore able to take Autothrusters, as well as being +1 Agility, so the durability is certainly potentially there over Kirhaxz. But you're overpaying if you're using it as a jousting ship and a PS1 arc dodger is not terribly effective.

Overall, Kirahxz wins if you're looking for a cheapish 3-die attack. I see little reason to take the more expensive Starviper in most cases. In fact, I'd rather have a Hull or Shield Upgrade plus Illicit on the Kirahxz before taking the 25-pt SV.

For 18, 19 or 20 points you could have a Cartel Spacer with a Flechette cannon, Ion Cannon, or Mangler cannon, respectively.

If only the Heavy Scyk title increased hull by 1, it would be a solid pick instead of middling.

Or if the M3-As all cost 2 points less, they would be good filler. Kind of silly that FFG is still dropping the ball with every wave. Some really good value picks like the B-wing were top dog when they came out, and are still top dog. At least the T-70 might give them a run for their money. I don't see the new TIEs getting used much, they too are too costly.

If the TIE Advanced prototype generic is 17 points and can use the x1 title, the Empire will finally have a points efficient ship besides the TIE fighter.

I got boost and evade muddled up, it takes a little off the side of the viper arguement.

Thanks for all this food for thought. I feel less guilty for my love for the little K bird

Statwise, the StarViper and the Kihraxz differ only by one agility die, and one die isn't worth an extra 5 points.

The StarViper has huge maneuverability at low speed: it's comparable to an AdvSensor B-wing for tricksyness. Compared with the Kihraxz, its strength is almost entirely dial. How much more mileage it gets you than the Kihraxz depends partly on the opponent but mostly on how good at the maneuvering game you are.

Boost is much better than evade. If I had to choose between the 2 I'd take a ship with boost. Autothrusters is always a solid upgrade for a 3 agility ship.

I'm not sure they are really that comparable. Does anyone take starviper generics? For me it's Xisor loaded up or nothing. Maybe Guri. But they (he) is all about tricksy manoeuvring and hitting from odd angles.

The khiraxxx (new name, I'm coining it here) is "just" a straight up jouster. And it's great. I love Cobra commander, I love the generics. It's just good ship at all levels and all degrees of upgrades.

Deceptively fragile though. That hard one on its dial is lovely, definitely it's ace in the hole.

Talonbane had been a Starviper pilot...

I could never really get the hang of it.

If only Talonbane had been a Starviper pilot...

That would have been pretty hot. I'm really curious as to what FFG's Starviper fix will be. It already has a title and autothrusters is near auto-include, so you'd think it has to be another slot. Maybe just another Chardaan Refit card?

Why does the Starviper need a fix? The generics aren't used, but the names ones are great. I've done very well with a loaded Xizor and know others who have done well with Guri.

I had... limited success trying the PS3 Starviper with AT in a list, basically to bodyguard someone that the other squad needs to kill - in this case it was Pablob. With the Starviper being so much more manoeuvrable it could dance around the guys gunning for him, trying to do some damage against their big hitters where it can.

It worked to a degree and I liked flying it a lot so I may revisit in the future.

If only Talonbane had been a Starviper pilot...

That would have been pretty hot. I'm really curious as to what FFG's Starviper fix will be. It already has a title and autothrusters is near auto-include, so you'd think it has to be another slot. Maybe just another Chardaan Refit card?

Why does the Starviper need a fix? The generics aren't used, but the names ones are great. I've done very well with a loaded Xizor and know others who have done well with Guri.

Even if you've had some success with it, I think most people would agree that the Starviper needs help.

Its success in tournaments is in the bottom of the barrel with the pre-title TIE Advanced, TIE Defender, and M3A. http://xwing.miniranker.com/ships.php?d=90&f=0

MajorJuggler's mathwing stats support the opinion that it is significantly overpriced.

Personally, I find Xizor's ability situational and somewhat conflicts with his arc-dodging potential. Guri's ability is great, but I wish Xizor had it instead at PS7.

If only Talonbane had been a Starviper pilot...

That would have been pretty hot. I'm really curious as to what FFG's Starviper fix will be. It already has a title and autothrusters is near auto-include, so you'd think it has to be another slot. Maybe just another Chardaan Refit card?

Why does the Starviper need a fix? The generics aren't used, but the names ones are great. I've done very well with a loaded Xizor and know others who have done well with Guri.

Even if you've had some success with it, I think most people would agree that the Starviper needs help.

Its success in tournaments is in the bottom of the barrel with the pre-title TIE Advanced, TIE Defender, and M3A. http://xwing.miniranker.com/ships.php?d=90&f=0

MajorJuggler's mathwing stats support the opinion that it is significantly overpriced.

Personally, I find Xizor's ability situational and somewhat conflicts with his arc-dodging potential. Guri's ability is great, but I wish Xizor had it instead at PS7.

Pretty much sums it up. Guri and Xizor needed their pilot skills reversed.

they really don't

people just have to learn how amazing Xizor's ability is by growing a pair and being completely reckless while his quasi-immortality is enabled, and then transition into a squirrely-bastard-playstyle if his escort drops

they really don't

people just have to learn how amazing Xizor's ability is by growing a pair and being completely reckless while his quasi-immortality is enabled, and then transition into a squirrely-bastard-playstyle if his escort drops

Fair enough! I'll give Xizor a solid try for you

I wish guri had a higher pilot skill as unlike many of the hired goons that make up the scum and villainy set, she is a professional human replica droid designed to be the ultimate body guard. Seems strange that she would be decidingly average, unless she's just meant to get in there and get directly in people's way.

Issue with the starviper that, autothrusters aside, there's very little you can do to improve its performance, and that the generic pilots can't really make use of its dial and capabilities. To make matters worse, it's best preformance upgrades are locked into its title card. So only one lucky guy can use the sensors and glitterastim and the primary reason a high 30/low 40 cost ship is viable is just xizors effect. Generally speaking, a combination of below average pilot skills, expensive ship makes it a difficult ship to use with generics. Sigma loops are a sangifcant advantage, just its a elite heavy fighter that doesn't have the Caliber of pilots to match, though I love the ship to death.

The special-k meanwhile has much of the dial of the starviper, but is much leaner in cost, has immediately access to a wide range of upgrades and has some effective pilots. Even the hunter, who is of questionable value compared to the blacksun ace, has a nice pilot skill and a decent effect though hurt by his lack of elite pilot status. All in all, it's a very lean ship that can be purposes to be strong.

I think average is Pilot skill 2.

I'm not sure they are really that comparable. Does anyone take starviper generics? For me it's Xisor loaded up or nothing. Maybe Guri. But they (he) is all about tricksy manoeuvring and hitting from odd angles.

The khiraxxx (new name, I'm coining it here) is "just" a straight up jouster. And it's great. I love Cobra commander, I love the generics. It's just good ship at all levels and all degrees of upgrades.

Deceptively fragile though. That hard one on its dial is lovely, definitely it's ace in the hole.

Yes. I flew 2 at Chicago and went 4-2

If only Talonbane had been a Starviper pilot...

That would have been pretty hot. I'm really curious as to what FFG's Starviper fix will be. It already has a title and autothrusters is near auto-include, so you'd think it has to be another slot. Maybe just another Chardaan Refit card?

Why does the Starviper need a fix? The generics aren't used, but the names ones are great. I've done very well with a loaded Xizor and know others who have done well with Guri.

Even if you've had some success with it, I think most people would agree that the Starviper needs help.

Its success in tournaments is in the bottom of the barrel with the pre-title TIE Advanced, TIE Defender, and M3A. http://xwing.miniranker.com/ships.php?d=90&f=0

MajorJuggler's mathwing stats support the opinion that it is significantly overpriced.

Personally, I find Xizor's ability situational and somewhat conflicts with his arc-dodging potential. Guri's ability is great, but I wish Xizor had it instead at PS7.

I don't care what Major Juggler's stats say. I took Xizor to Regionals and won my first 3 games. I beat beat two dual Bro Bots lists and a crazy Rebel list. I lost to a Phantom as I made one bad choice, but I had a chance to win. I then faced Decimator and 3 Ties, but lost to some horrible dice rolls. Even my opponent felt bad. If I had won the last game, I would've made it into Top 16 cut.

Just because people don't know how to fly Xizor doesn't mean it's a bad ship. I found my list fantastic to beat most things in the last tournament meta. It was great vs. Fat Turrets, Bro Bots, and most things. Phantoms were it's bane, though. Soontir was hard, but do-able. I'd love to face Fat Turrets as I figured it was a win in my books.

I don't care what Major Juggler's stats say. I took Xizor to Regionals and won my first 3 games. I beat beat two dual Bro Bots lists and a crazy Rebel list. I lost to a Phantom as I made one bad choice, but I had a chance to win. I then faced Decimator and 3 Ties, but lost to some horrible dice rolls. Even my opponent felt bad. If I had won the last game, I would've made it into Top 16 cut.

Just because people don't know how to fly Xizor doesn't mean it's a bad ship. I found my list fantastic to beat most things in the last tournament meta. It was great vs. Fat Turrets, Bro Bots, and most things. Phantoms were it's bane, though. Soontir was hard, but do-able. I'd love to face Fat Turrets as I figured it was a win in my books.

Well there's clearly no changing your mind, but I will say that MajorJuggler's stats have been pretty on point in terms of predicting a ship's performance and have helped determine which ships are in need of a boost (e.g. X-wing, TIE Adv).

And not to start a pissing contest, but I went 4-1 with dual Firesprays at regionals and made top 8. But that doesn't mean they don't need a small boost to be on par with YTs (Glitterstim might have just been it), and the Firespray's poor performance in tournaments certainly doesn't mean that everyone else just doesn't know how to fly them.