I keep hearing everyone talk about how tournament winners consistently win three or more 10-0 victories, and how their lists generally table opponents... yet, in all my games so far (only around 20, but still a sizeable amount) I've never seen anything even remotely close to a table.

Typically our games end up with one Medium ship blown up, sometimes also a Small one (or some squadrons), on one or both sides. So, typically 6-4, 7-3, 8-2 and the rare 9-1. But the only 10-0 game I've ever seen was a daft headlong charge against a well-protected Contested Outpost, on my 2nd ever game. And even that wasn't actually a tabling.

In today's game (which is completely representative of the usual outcome, though I'm just as often on the losing side) I blew up an upgraded AF2 and a pair of X-Wings, and scored some points from Superior Objectives, while losing only some 50 points of squadrons... for a "measly" 8-2 win which, according to the forum talk, would already strip me of any tournament chances.

My main sparring partner tends to favour evasive play, and kiting with CR90s or AF2s that only close in for a kill during the last couple of turns. This allows him to keep them out of harm's way and focus fire on the weakest target during endgame - but also means he's never going to have enough damage output to bring down, say, two VSDs. I have remarked a couple of times that, while absolutely fine for casual play, this strategy isn't very tournament-savvy, but he makes a good case that it'd be suicide to play Rebel ships any other way.

What gives? Is my opponent too strong? Are we doing something wrong? Are Rebels inherently unsuited for tournament play because of the MoV system? Or is the ubiquity of 10-0 wins a myth?

I feel the same way.even with an agressive gladiator build, my partner usually knows how much beating a guppy can take, and gets out with at least one alive.

10-0 is not something I see very often at all. And its not just Rebel related.

It is entirely theoretically possible for it to happen, yes, but its just super unlikely to me, unless you're talking about someone who is running completely roughshod over inexperienced players.

At the little Calgary tournament, there was no 10-0s. I got the closest, taking out a Victory and 2 Glads, but I foolishly lost my Corvette at the end, and expended a fair few squadrons to do it...

I mean, the constant 10-0 wins seems to be anecdotal and completely braggarting things.. I don't know. Maybe I am just not that good. And None of my local players are that Good... I don't know.

I mean, I got a 3rd Place with a Half-decent Win and 2 very close losses, so I can't really complain.

There is a slight difference between 10-0 and tabling. Tabling is destroying all your opponents stuff, usually done by getting all the caps.

In my 5 games at gencon I tabled 3 of my opponents, but only one of them was a 10-0 victory. The others were closer to 8-2 due to losses on my side. I think that is one of *maybe* 3 10-0s i've gotten over the course of about 30-35 games.

Tabling will always be more common than 10-0 victories I think. As we move into wave 2 I think both things will be come even less common due to the sheer durability of the large ships, and the fact that with more hulls on the table, its more likely for a few to escape.

I don't think that you are likely to see multiple 10-0s from the winner except at large events such as gencon, or if there is a massive skill gap between the winner at your local event and the rest of the field.

Completely anecdotal, but hey, its what I have to offer.

I think tabling came into common usage as way of describing the weakness of squadron heavy carrier fleets.

I've also never been tabled nor have I tabled anyone

but I fly double AFs so it's not like I'm supposed to do either

fly away, you glorious space whales!

but even when I flew triple Nebs, even my most glorious accomplishments/failures still left something alive (usually Salvation in the case of failure)

only time I tabled was 2 Nebs + 1 corv against squadron heavy double VSD, the then it just came down to the Corv + 3 B-wings versus Dominator + Rhymer and 2 bombers

one bad die roll either way would've won the game, so I'm lucky B-wings get one black and one blue instead of just one black

10-0's are certainly not as common as this forum would lead you to think, i definitely agree!

You don't have to table some one to get a 10-0 win. In my last tournament I destroyed two enemy VSD but the single GSD got away. But since it was a Contested Outpost I also claimed 5 tokens for 100 points. I ended up winning 322 to 0 (I lost nothing) and thereby got a 10-0 victory even though we left a single Imperial ship alive.

I feel like in maybe 10% of games I play someone winds up tabled, though tabling will usually have its roots in either a BIG mistake on one players part or a beautifully executed plan on the other players part.

I think we'll see less of it as people learn how to deny their opponent with evasion and really start playing the objectives.

Then again... it may happen more often with the big ships taking the field. Who knows?

Maybe this is common to most games, but, given the low number of ships in an engagement, losing a ship seems like it gives your opponent a not-insignificant advantage. Losing a ship messes with your firepower, board position, order of activation, and support.

So if you manage to destroy an opponent's ship with minimal casualties, maybe it becomes easier to just steamroll the rest of their list? I'm only about ten games into Armada so this is just a theory.

I agree it is less common now but when the game came out I consistently tabled opponents but now that the game has been out long enough for most people to get experience with the game it happens a lot less frequently. I think I have been tabled 2x total in about 30-40 games.

Lately I hover around 7-3 and 8-2.

I have tabled 2 people and been tabled twice. We are talking about 60+ games though. . .

Most games for me (since I play rebels mainly) are 7-3's and more often 5-5.

Now I hear Darth Lupine has to table someone once a week to survive on the tears and screams of his victims.

I have heard that WWPDSTEVEN tables people often

I have only tabled someone once, and that was when we had a 400 point no turn limit game. And the "tabling" was my last ship killing his last ship.

I have seen 10-0's with only 1-2 ships destroyed, seems more common to get those points with a flagship kill or an objective ship takedown.

I would say that 10-0 wins are probably more common overall than tabling. Some of the objectives offer the chance to earn lots of additional points.

Personally I have tabled opponents, but typically only when they are playing 2 ship builds. With the move to 400 points, I expect it will be less common. 10-0 wins tend to happen for me more often when I can score additional points from scenarios like Fire Lanes, Superior Positions, or Most Wanted.

Man, I feel a lot better now. Neither myself nor my opponents have ever dared pick one of the really swingy objectives like Most Wanted or Advanced Gunnery, except the one time I stupidly chose Contested Outpost (like I said, my only ever 10-0 result). To be honest, the MoV has started increasing since we all pretty much dropped Minefields in exchange for Superior Positions as our go-to objective.

Tournaments are structures that will bring out statistical outliers and make them look more common place. We SEE the 3 table result because we focus on the top players and they are considered top players because the tournament structure dictates their results are the best ones. We also see table results because tournaments are no guarantee of expertise.

Particularly any tournament with a 3 round structure, the top player could beat a new player, then face another new player who won their first game versus a new player, and then for the final do a good job beating another player who has 2 wins.

I wouldn't worry if your local group doesn't see lopsided wins. Lopsided wins are an indicator of mixed experience levels, not high experience levels.

Finally, the tournaments are in some ways arranged to make sure the best players DON'T win. If the best records every round are put at the top tables and these players are of nearly equal skill, we should see more 5-5 results than 10-0. If we're seeing lots of 10-0 results at the top tables, its an indication the tournament structure is still placing vastly different experience level players together. So some tournament winners are just really good. But other tournament winners MAY just have pulled a good draw of opponents, and never saw a player of equal skill level.

I've never been beaten with a 10-0 nor did I beat anyone with a 10-0. But tabling occurs frequently on both sides when there is a clear margin of victory. Today I have tabled an opponent and been tabled.

Both of us still had fighters remaining, so it's I'm just talking about ships...

I see a more games end in tabling than some of the earlier commenters. For example, I played two games last night and both ended with the opponent wiped out, and half of all games at the recent tournament here ended in tabling.

What's making the difference?

It could be that our local player group ('meta') includes more aggressive players; just looking at my own fleets for example shows points going heavily in to gunnery and armaments at the expense of defensive uogrades, and local imperials include 4 glads and a VVG with screed and acm.

It could be a feedback loop where local players then become aware moderate wins aren't enough to hit the podium, and deploy and play more aggressively as well as build their fleets more aggressively; no swanning around at range 3 or higher.

Intentional crashing is a tactic I see a lot of, whether to block and trap ships or just to add more damage per turn. If you're not doing this, you could be missing out

Partly it is that some players are bringing squadron heavy fleets into this mix and getting tabled. Any time an opponent sets up 2 ships and some fighters I change my plan to scoring a wipe out, and we see a lot of tabled fleets with half a dozen orphaned squadrons remaining.

So there are some thoughts on why the tabling rate could be higher than some people have described seeing. As for who gets tabled, or which sort of fleet it is that's losing 8-2 or 10-0, it is very heavily skewed towards the 2 imperial or 2/3 rebel capital fleets that have a lot of points in squadrons.

When aggressively geared capital ships meet squadron heavy fleets you should see tabling quite regularly.

There are some serious skill mismatches among the small pool of players who show up for the tournaments at one of my local shops, and those always feature a lot of tabling. But I mean, you bring two Nebs and two Corvettes and I bring three gladiators, what else would happen?

There are some serious skill mismatches among the small pool of players who show up for the tournaments at one of my local shops, and those always feature a lot of tabling. But I mean, you bring two Nebs and two Corvettes and I bring three gladiators, what else would happen?

The Corvettes and Neb bait your Glads to come in, bank a Nav Token for a well executed fleet fleeing maneuver thanks to them having initiative and activation advantage ? Not before killing one Gladiator, and prior to catching another Gladiator in the rear last turn ?

Three Gladiators ? I think you overestimate their chances.

I have heard that WWPDSTEVEN tables people often

I have played and seen WWPDSTEVEN play about 9 games and he did indeed table about 6 of them. He is really good and he plays a lot and that makes a huge difference. He has definitely opened my eyes to some excellent tactics and he is a really good guy and a blast to play against.

I've won two local tourneys. All six games I tabled my opponents, and they were all 10-0 wins.

However, there IS a local player, who plays very evasive, and he actually beat me by 26 points once.

When playing casual, I tend to be less aggressive and bring more varied lists. At a tourney, I'm bringing the optimal list I can, and I'm going for the fastest possible wipe out.

Just my experience.

Hehe

Playing to avoid the wipe. I like that strategy. Got to piss off the super aggressive people.

I've won two local tourneys. All six games I tabled my opponents, and they were all 10-0 wins.

However, there IS a local player, who plays very evasive, and he actually beat me by 26 points once.

When playing casual, I tend to be less aggressive and bring more varied lists. At a tourney, I'm bringing the optimal list I can, and I'm going for the fastest possible wipe out.

Just my experience.

The likelihood that you can wipe 6 opponents from 2 tournaments not to mention the wipes you get when you play Grave13 yet many others on this forum can't do that. It all comes down to skill level.