I did say it was only sometimes and as they seem to accept feedback figured I would provide some. YMMV of course.

In the 'hunger games' recap the defender gets some good press. Not every ship can shine its brightest in the 100 point death match format. Hunger games Narrative sound like great ways to get some different play in. Thanks for the show!

Hi all,

Thanks, as always for the feed back

On us saying that nobody flys the Defender. The show is geared towards competitive play, that's the way Ed introduces it at the start of every show and unfortunately the results back up that people are not flying the Defender. It makes me sad, I honestly tried to make them work and did OK with them but I personally feel that it is better for a new player to hear a true reflection on the ship than to go in to an event not understanding why it is not quite there.

The Narative was a really good event and was very rewarding to be a part of overall. I think I said on the show that when playing in a Narative balanced missions are not necessarily going to be on offer and nor should they be, as long as they are fun and interesting to play which most were.

I am only 2 hours in to my first listen (still a fan of the show!) my levels were better this time at least but I now need to be quicker on my mute, stupid mouth breathing!

Kris

I play Defenders competitively, doing reasonably well in the limited competitive events I've had the opportunity to attend.

Maybe there's others out there that can do well if they give it a chance, but all they hear is "Defenders are so bad" that they don't even try. It's self-perpetuating situation.

My experience against defenders is that they are less threatening brobots. Less HP, no autothrusters, not as good at the low speeds. Their main advantage is the ability to bug out of some situations in which a brobot would be trapped, but I don't think that's enough of an advantage to justify it. Their lack of use in tournaments is not from players in my meta not trying them. It's not just the eye test dismissing them, in my opinion.

That being said, if you dropped one in the midst of a bunch of cheaper ships where you're strictly limited to one ship, I can see it being successful.

If you listen to some earlier shows you will here me talk about how I used the defender, I loved flying my "Defender Swarm" list;

Brath, PTL, EU, HLC

Vessery, VI, EU, HLC

It is one of the most fun lists I have ran at events BUT repeatedly finishing mid table and not being able to pick out glaring mistakes in my losses, and my lack of competition after I moved to Cold Lake meant that it was just not worth the effort. I needed to fly perfectly to just have a chance which is why I switched to chewy and Corran.

I would hope by now that you guys know that I don't really bother with math and put a big emphasis on the actual playing of the game. I have just played too many hard games and come out just below where I expected to tell someone to take Defenders to a large event if they want to go top 4, which is what the show is geared towards.

I will happily tell you to take them to events and enjoy flying them as they are such good fun.

Kris

I didn't mean to start a Defender debate, and I'm sorry if this thread turns into that. Apologies to the OP.

PTL Defenders is tough. I never had much success with it. It didn't really click for me until I did Predator on Rex and Lone Wolf on Vessery. Those guys took me to top 4 at the Kansas City Regionals this year. I think I could have done better, also. I made mistakes and still won, and made a huge deployment mistake in the game I lost, and I wish I could play it again without such a bone head move.

I didn't mean to start a Defender debate, and I'm sorry if this thread turns into that. Apologies to the OP.

I don't mean to do that, either- but I do want to counter the people who say anyone who thinks the defender isn't very good never actually played the thing or saw it played. I'm not just looking at the numbers and dial and dismissing it.

Lol, ask Ed.

I will talk Defenders all day long.

My problem with the Defender itself it is with the generics.

Give me PS4 and PS6 and bump the named ones up to 7 and 9 and I would take them all the time. I believe that myself and Bob have spoken about it on the show. I think there is enough in the platform that a raw PS boost makes it playable. Bobs jousting numbers disagree but I would still play them.

I have heard the argument for the PS1 letting you get the K-Turn in and I am sure that came up in play testing but I would rather be alive to fire and have to rely on my skill for what manoeuvre to lock in.

Kris

I didn't mean to start a Defender debate, and I'm sorry if this thread turns into that. Apologies to the OP.

I don't mean to do that, either- but I do want to counter the people who say anyone who thinks the defender isn't very good never actually played the thing or saw it played. I'm not just looking at the numbers and dial and dismissing it.

I don't think anyone is dismissing any point of view. It is a known fact that the Defender is not where it should be, same as the generic E-Wings. I have never, ever said that you can't win with Defenders but you have to fly harder and get more out of the platform than someone who glys B-Wings would.

Personally I am probably a better Defender player than B-Wing player as I have flown the big D more but as generic competitive advice for new players if you try telling someone that running 3 defenders is as easy as running 4 B-Wings. Than unfortunately I honestly think you would be wrong and doing that player a disservice.

Kris

Generic Defenders are certainly worse off than the named ones.

I'll never argue that Defenders are easier than B-wings, but easier doesn't necessarily mean that much. They're certainly not going to work for everyone, but that doesn't mean they're hopeless.

I don't get a chance to play all that often, and I'm not one of these players that can travel to a bunch of big tournaments. Most of my playing ends up being against myself. I'm pretty good, but that's probably all I am. If I managed to have success in a major tournament with Defenders, I can't help but imagine there's plenty of others that can as well.

Let the Defender debates begin!!!!

Personally int he fluff I LOVE the defender. I really wanted that ship to be super-awesome! However 'competitively' speaking, it is only just an ok ship and may in fact be a few points overcosted.

That all being said, I would like to start the 'fix the defender' campaign right here and right now. I own three, I want two more for epic games, I really want this ship to be awesome!

New life in the defender(Well Vess at least): MK2 and new TL buddies in the tie/FO and soon TAP toting tracers. They are improving it incrementally but it still isn't there.

It's nice to hear how it all went down. Makes me want to go someday. Keep up the good work fellas.

Vess is also a strong partner for a Palpatine-wielding Kenkirk. Palp makes those green dice a little less fickle, and Kenkirk doesn't have too many issues taking a target lock.

Due to the costs involved, you have to choose between building for arc-dodge with Engine Upgrades, or building to punch people in the face a lot with an HLC capable of dealing 3 hits and a crit every single round. I prefer the latter.

New life in the defender(Well Vess at least): MK2 and new TL buddies in the tie/FO and soon TAP toting tracers. They are improving it incrementally but it still isn't there.

It's nice to hear how it all went down. Makes me want to go someday. Keep up the good work fellas.

Vess is also a strong partner for a Palpatine-wielding Kenkirk. Palp makes those green dice a little less fickle, and Kenkirk doesn't have too many issues taking a target lock.

Due to the costs involved, you have to choose between building for arc-dodge with Engine Upgrades, or building to punch people in the face a lot with an HLC capable of dealing 3 hits and a crit every single round. I prefer the latter.

I agree. The HLC is like a magic hammer that turns all your problems into nails. Vessery just makes the hammer even bigger.