Star Trek films are like windows releases. If the movie or release is good, the next will be terrible, if the previous was terrible, the next will be good.

Star Trek TNG and DS9 were good, Voyager was quite weak except for a few wham episodes (anything with the borg makes ST better). Enterprise I just couldn't watch through.

Hey, Enterprise is very good!

No, no it wasn't. It started to show some signs of life towards the end, but by and large it was a catfish turd sandwich.

Seriously, Trip was a bad Southern stereotype, who they try to then play off as the opposite of a Southern stereotype with his incredible intellectual talents, but then they go right back to joking about "how he was never really any good at math."

The freaking engineer of your spaceship isn't good at math.

And then Dr. Phlox commits genocide, because the medical doctor is clueless to how evolution works.

It was a ship run by psychopaths and morons, with poor Malcolm Reed wondering what crime he committed in a previous lifetime to get stuck with the rest of the crew.

Star Trek: lot more grounded in reality as soft sci fi goes, lycra everything is always a plus, very little handwavy space magic.

Lots of pointless technobabble, reverse the polarity of the tachyon emitter again.

Epic space battles. when they happen.

Strong Exploration focus. - Driving plot behind series.

Star Wars: Science fantasy, soft sci fi. Battle armour looks cool, as does a certain bikini - in fact generally Star Wars fashion wins.

Used universe, lots of grime. Everything is rule of cool / awesome but impractical. Spehss Magic.

Next to no Exploration focus. Which is kind of a shame.

DM's like me like to play up the EU and make Stormtroopers super-competent.

I personally like wars more than trek, but I respect trek.

Star Wars is a romantic look back at what once was, Star Trek is an optimistic look ahead at what may yet be.

I don't know. To me it feels like 'back in the day,' the cynics always worried about LFL - Lucasfilm is pulling the strings. How much of this is Lucasfilm responsible for? What if they stop approving ships? What if LFL does this, what if LFL does that?

Now it's just the same cynicism but enhanced because, Disney. SSDD.

I think some people are forgetting to acknowledge at least one point.

Rebels is good.

Like....really good.

Yeah its a bit kiddy at times, but that's the point. What I love about it are the little things. The way the ignition of a lightsaber actually carries gravitas and sends a chill down your spine because you know what Kanan is sacrificing when he reveals himself. And this is a freaking kids show. I'm buying the blu-rays so I have something to watch with my kids when they get older (and my wife isn't even pregnant yet...) Anyway, my point is that so far, Disney and (from what we have seen) J.J. Abrams are shaping up to be far better custodians of Star Wars than George Lucas. Also, Disney isn't some monolithic evil empire. At least not anymore with Michael Isner gone. Also, I would be shocked if John Lasseter isn't involved in the star wars stuff at some level. Don't forget, Disney, Apple and LucasFilm have had interwoven relationships for decades.

Also, J.J. Abrams is awesome. Hop off the "ZOMG LENS FLARE!!!111!!!1!one!!oneone!!1!" bandwagon and realize that neither the trek reboot nor ep 7 are being made strictly for nostalgic fanboys and girls. The other purpose of these films is to make them relevant for a new generation. They will be different from what you remember, and they will be good. Also, J.J. is himself a huge Star Wars fanboy. He essentially has his dream job. Lets give him props for that at the very least.

TL;DR: I find your lack of faith disturbing...

I wouldn't say Rebels is really good, but I believe it is getting there. The first season was really disappointing when compared to the later Clone Wars seasons, which by the way totally saved my love for that era after being desillusioned by rewatching the prequels. When you compare it to the early Clone Wars seasons, though...then you realize that Rebels is potentially gold. I am so hyped for the second season, bringing back the best characters from TCW is a genius move. I also recognize this would have been too early in the first season as they needed to establish the new cast, so the guys know what they are doing.

The first season was really disappointing when compared to the later Clone Wars seasons

That's hardly a fair comparison... That's like saying Cake is better then a bowl full of flower, eggs, and milk.

I liked Clone Wars, but it never captured the Star Wars feel like Rebels did.

Rebels lost me when I saw this laser-sling ... and Ties move like helicopters? Ah come on now! The designers were on weed like those of the smurfs?

The fact that the crew has 6 seasons of television under their belt shows. But the fact that Lucas is no longer dumping ungodly sums of his own funds into it also shows.

That kind of is the point I was making.

Rebels lost me when I saw this laser-sling ... and Ties move like helicopters?

So laser swords and space magic are ok but slings aren't? That's an interesting line you draw there.

Also it's quite natural that Ties would move like helicopters. Repulsor tech would act pretty much exactly like a chopper does.

Disney's Aladdin starring in Star Wars Rebels as a filthy psychopathic kleptomaniac that we are expected to find endearing is very off putting.

But it's either this or nothing.

Rebels lost me when I saw this laser-sling ... and Ties move like helicopters?

So laser swords and space magic are ok but slings aren't? That's an interesting line you draw there.

Also it's quite natural that Ties would move like helicopters. Repulsor tech would act pretty much exactly like a chopper does.

pretty much all ships can hover, don't you remember the xwings taking off in star wars? If they didnt have repulsors ties would pretty much never be able to land, my only complaint about the ties is that they were not in their iconic launch racks but were landed on the ground (which is fine, but how the hell are the pilots supposed to get on board quickly? At least x wings have a ladder)

Disney's Aladdin starring in Star Wars Rebels as a filthy psychopathic kleptomaniac that we are expected to find endearing is very off putting.

But it's either this or nothing.

He's like that for half of one episode.

His whole arc as a character is him becoming not a street rat.

Rebels lost me when I saw this laser-sling ... and Ties move like helicopters?

So laser swords and space magic are ok but slings aren't? That's an interesting line you draw there.

Also it's quite natural that Ties would move like helicopters. Repulsor tech would act pretty much exactly like a chopper does.

I guess if they had brought laser ponys and laser combs along with laser underwear you would be happy, too ... because there are laser swords, which make all other whatever crap with 'laser' possible.

Tie Fighters should move like all fighters designed by Lucas. And he designed them to move like WWII Fighters. And NOT like helicopters.

Rebels lost me when I saw this laser-sling ... and Ties move like helicopters?

So laser swords and space magic are ok but slings aren't? That's an interesting line you draw there.

Also it's quite natural that Ties would move like helicopters. Repulsor tech would act pretty much exactly like a chopper does.

pretty much all ships can hover, don't you remember the xwings taking off in star wars? If they didnt have repulsors ties would pretty much never be able to land, my only complaint about the ties is that they were not in their iconic launch racks but were landed on the ground (which is fine, but how the hell are the pilots supposed to get on board quickly? At least x wings have a ladder)

In some of the Gundam series a line is lowered to the ground that has a small foot hold, maybe it is something like that?

Also, I'm pretty sure I've seen TIEs use VTOL movement in the movies. It would be impossible for them to deploy from Star Destroyer bays if they needed a runway to take off.

Rebels lost me when I saw this laser-sling ... and Ties move like helicopters?

So laser swords and space magic are ok but slings aren't? That's an interesting line you draw there.

Also it's quite natural that Ties would move like helicopters. Repulsor tech would act pretty much exactly like a chopper does.

pretty much all ships can hover, don't you remember the xwings taking off in star wars? If they didnt have repulsors ties would pretty much never be able to land, my only complaint about the ties is that they were not in their iconic launch racks but were landed on the ground (which is fine, but how the hell are the pilots supposed to get on board quickly? At least x wings have a ladder)

In some of the Gundam series a line is lowered to the ground that has a small foot hold, maybe it is something like that?

Also, I'm pretty sure I've seen TIEs use VTOL movement in the movies. It would be impossible for them to deploy from Star Destroyer bays if they needed a runway to take off.

Tractor beams are used to land small ships in hangars.

Rebels lost me when I saw this laser-sling ... and Ties move like helicopters? Ah come on now! The designers were on weed like those of the smurfs?

Just keep watching.

A laser sling is not any sillier than a laser crossbow. And the kid eventually stops using the sling shot.

Also, ALSO! Sabine Wren.

Take off, he said, not land. Also, could you cite the source for that, Starkiller? Not to turn this into a canon-fight or anything. It's just, well, I'm curious where that came from and if they explain how that works- Because using tractor beams to land up to 72 ships in a withdrawal seems absurd

Clone Wars era is the downfall of the Republic and Jedi.

Rebels era is start of hope with the rise of the Rebellion.

Different vibes all together.

The question is what is Ep 7-8 era all about? Because the story arc for the 6 episodes were completed with the Ewok celebration and Vader BBQ. Ewok eat humans.

Take off, he said, not land. Also, could you cite the source for that, Starkiller? Not to turn this into a canon-fight or anything. It's just, well, I'm curious where that came from and if they explain how that works- Because using tractor beams to land up to 72 ships in a withdrawal seems absurd

Star Destroyers have several utility tractor beams located in different locations to ensure full control in moving objects in 3D space by 'crossing the beams', inside and outside of the hangars.

Thats how supply crates come in and all the stuff which isn't fighters and shuttles.

Watch episode 4 ... how do you think they brought the CR90 into the bays? I don't have more sources for you.

The fighters need to land in small groups. The others need to wait until they are next in line.

Aircraft carriers have similar problems, don't they?

Rebels lost me when I saw this laser-sling ... and Ties move like helicopters?

So laser swords and space magic are ok but slings aren't? That's an interesting line you draw there.

Also it's quite natural that Ties would move like helicopters. Repulsor tech would act pretty much exactly like a chopper does.

pretty much all ships can hover, don't you remember the xwings taking off in star wars? If they didnt have repulsors ties would pretty much never be able to land, my only complaint about the ties is that they were not in their iconic launch racks but were landed on the ground (which is fine, but how the hell are the pilots supposed to get on board quickly? At least x wings have a ladder)

In some of the Gundam series a line is lowered to the ground that has a small foot hold, maybe it is something like that?

Also, I'm pretty sure I've seen TIEs use VTOL movement in the movies. It would be impossible for them to deploy from Star Destroyer bays if they needed a runway to take off.

Tractor beams are used to land small ships in hangars.

Just remembered, new movie trailer, TIE is hovering across the hanger and shooting at everyone like a helicopter. I will assume that Finn did not get help from the tractor beams during his escape.

The JJ Star Trek actually makes it watchable to people that don't have a huge interest in Star Trek, and that's a lot healthier for a franchise than catering to a few fanboys.

The problem with the JJ Trek movies were not that they were bad _movies_, but that they fundamentally did not understand what Trek was about.

Star Trek is about the moral quandary of a Klingon Civil War that is being funded by the Romulans. The Federation knows this, the Klingons don't, and the Prime Directive says that the Federation needs to stand by and harm their own interests because the Romulans are good liars. Picard figures out another solution. That's Star Trek.

Star Trek is Sisco trying to figure out if it's worth killing one man to save the freedom of hundreds of billions.

Star Trek is Kirk discovering a relic of Humanity's dark ages- someone who had been designed as the smartest mind humanly possible- and outthinking him. Twice.

JJ Abrams solved that same problem by having Spock punch someone in the face. It's a bit boring as a solution, but the scene itself was fun to watch. It was _not_ very Star Trek, though. It didn't actually show that the human impulse to do better can overcome our desire to smash all interlopers.

It's not that JJ didn't dona great job of showing interesting action scenes. He did! But he misunderstood the ends to which Trek employs action.

Thankfully, in Ep7 this quandry should not come up. So if he gives us a standard action blockbuster, we should be well served.

And if not? I can still watch Rebels the next day.

Rebels lost me when I saw this laser-sling ... and Ties move like helicopters?

So laser swords and space magic are ok but slings aren't? That's an interesting line you draw there.

Also it's quite natural that Ties would move like helicopters. Repulsor tech would act pretty much exactly like a chopper does.

pretty much all ships can hover, don't you remember the xwings taking off in star wars? If they didnt have repulsors ties would pretty much never be able to land, my only complaint about the ties is that they were not in their iconic launch racks but were landed on the ground (which is fine, but how the hell are the pilots supposed to get on board quickly? At least x wings have a ladder)

In some of the Gundam series a line is lowered to the ground that has a small foot hold, maybe it is something like that?

Also, I'm pretty sure I've seen TIEs use VTOL movement in the movies. It would be impossible for them to deploy from Star Destroyer bays if they needed a runway to take off.

Tractor beams are used to land small ships in hangars.

Just remembered, new movie trailer, TIE is hovering across the hanger and shooting at everyone like a helicopter. I will assume that Finn did not get help from the tractor beams during his escape.

This is AFTER the disneyfication. The LUCAS Tie Fighters couldn't. Hence Star Wars computer- and video games. Do you remember ANY game that lets you fly a Tie like a copter?

The LUCAS Tie Fighters couldn't.

Yes they could. In fact they'd have to, or else they could never function in atmosphere at all. The only way a Tie Fighter that has the aerodynamics of a brick can fly in atmo is like a chopper. Especially at low speeds. In fact it would be beyond stupid if all Star Wars ships couldn't function like that at slow speeds based on the tech they're supposed to have.

Do you remember ANY game that lets you fly a Tie like a copter?

I don't remember any game that let me fly a tie fighter in atmosphere. But I only played the Sim's and Jedi Knight. Didn't do battlefront.

But that's ok, you've clearly drunk the EU-AntiDisey koolaid, and your complaints are so massively transparent that way that I'm done bothering. Because you have done the unthinkable, you have made BKL look reasonable...