Now I am fully cognisant of the fact we play with little plastic starship toys making laser noises driven by merchandising and it's been great so far (for the most part), a large part of the magic of

Wave 1 - 6 X-Wing was the thrill of exploring the nostalgia and design space left void by the LucasArts/Hasbro during their period of inactivity post Episode III. As a late 80's/90's kid Star Wars was on the always on the agenda- but less the films themselves, and more the Expanded Universe age of Timothy Zahn novels, the Rogue Squadron novels, Star Wars Micro Machines, the Dark Horse comics and LucasArts: X-Wing, Rebel Assault and Dark Forces/Jedi Outcast on the computer. It's pretty clear the current designers of X-Wing are also very much children of that era, considering how often they tap into the the design and nostalgia of that age of sources for inspiration.

A Short History of X-Wing:

W1-2 X-Wing brought excellently painted and sculpted X-Wing miniatures which simulated the old Lucasarts X-Wing vs TIE Fighter combat uncannily well on the tabletop.

This was such a revelation because thus far Star Wars miniature games had been shoddy ( Wizkids ) and the quality of their miniatures, poor ( Wizkids, Micro Machines)

W2-3 expansions brought the rest of the movie range into play allowing people to relive the battle of Endor and the experience flying a Falcon versus snubfighters, as well as the surprise release of the HWK/Moldy Crow.

Wave four was the Expanded Universe release, where esoteric ships from Rebel Assault 2 (Phantom) and Dark Empire (E-Wing) finally received their miniature incarnations, their effect on the meta reflecting well their (hypothetical) impact on starfighter combat in the Expanded Universe.

W5/6 were a love letter to Star Wars Galaxies and Shadows of the Empire, and the release of Scum and Villainy created an exciting new frontier of starfighter combat unexplored prior in the books and video games (Galaxies notwithstanding). Facing down Aggressors would be as terrifying and frustrating as one would imagine heavy starfighters piloted by insane killer robots.

At some point during the lull between Wave 6 and 7 X-Wing became less of a X-Wing versus TIE Fighter simulation on the tabletop and developed a distinct character of its own, with an emphasis on blocking, damage mitigation and MOV preservation. The change threw many purists off, and changed the way most players played the game, approaching it now from a more serious, utilitarian, Chess-like direction rather than 'casual cinematic Star Wars starfighter combat'. Recent releases like the Co-Op campaign have gone some way to revive the initial spirit, but the Tournament X-Wing approach is now de rigeur for many players.

Thus far Wave 7 pushes the frontier of the Expanded Universe once again- K-Wings and Punishers have never seen form in miniature or video game representation, and neither did the Hounds' Tooth. The Khiraxz continues the Galaxies representation, and the Raider has been a grand success aesthetically, integrating extremely well into the existing design space.

Since Disney acquired the Star Wars property they have ruthlessly embarked on a well-planned campaign of expansion and merchandising: SW: Rebels was the first step in claiming the Civil War Era, then demolishing the Expanded Universe canon entirely; then the planned sequels and splinter movies. As if on cue, we've receiving SW: Rebels ships and the new Core Set, three months before the film's release, with a tidal wave of new toys and merchandise of characters we hardly know anything about, all before we know if Episode VII is going to be loved or hated.

It all feels a little unfamiliar and forced. If Wave 1-7 was about seeing the most esoteric of the old EU finally represented on the tabletop, Wave 8 and onward is going to be what Disney depicts on screen and dictates to be merchandised. Nostalgia no longer; Cold blooded profit motive is going to be what drives future waves of X-Wing releases.

In a way, it was inevitable, I suppose, that we run out of ships - nostalgia isn't an infinite store. Now, I'm not a curmudgeon or a luddite by any stretch. I fully embrace all new releases and constant change in the meta, which keeps the game fresh and new. I like the new/old T-70 and the F/O TIE, and I love my BB8 Sphero droid. But I can't help feeling a little bit cynical on how Disney is so mechanically and ruthlessly pushing their new range of Star Wars toys on us and how naive we must be (self included) if we're just gobbling it up- all before the film has even been released.

At this point I think time will tell. To me wave 7 was about addressing the most common complaint - ordnance was not not used.

Wave 8 is clearly the rebels wave, but also tacked on TFA - which does seem like it would be disney mandated and I could understand cynicism there.

The real question is what will wave 9 give us?

Will it be a marketing push for TFA? Will it be another loveletter to the EU? To the X-wing quadrilogy? Will it be Aces Re-hashes?

None of us know, and that's really exciting.

we've been through worse

much...

much...

worse

Even if the movies are crap the game will remain fun, with or without TFA ships, because gameplay > fluff.

I actually like how Disney builds up the Star Wars hype. I'd give them the benefit of the doubt for now.

Interesting stuff!

I can't help feeling that this part - "At some point during the lull between Wave 6 and 7 X-Wing became less of a X-Wing versus TIE Fighter simulation on the tabletop and developed a distinct character of its own, with an emphasis on blocking, damage mitigation and MOV preservation." - is more autobiographical than generalisably factual, though.

I dislike Disney, their business model and their founder, but I love the franchise, and they've injected their trademark frenzy for making money into it, and the effect so far has been good - More content, smart development, exciting new film on the way. They're very savvy business people, and take note of what the star geeks want. This means that we're getting what we want, but not in a "creative, daring, pure" sense but more in a "reflexive postmodern commodity" sense. And that's fine with me. The series was always ever thus - it just contains elements that allow us to read higher ideals onto it, if the need arises

No.

Another short answer to a long question....

But seriously, FFG has produced nothing but quality thus far. It is still THEIR GAME.

In FFG We Trust.

I absolutely disagree with you. For one, I never was into the EU at all. Never played more than X-wing vs. Tie Fighter. Never read the books or all the other stuff. So, a lot of these waves have me going to Wookiepedia to figure out what or who they are. I did read a little bit of the EU after playing more X-wing. A lot of it is new to me. I still enjoy it.

Next, Disney didn't demolish the EU. They said it's all still there....unless they write over it. That's a big difference there. Personally, I think they will pick what they like and probably improve on it. I have to admit that some of the EU that I did try to read was pretty bad.

The whole bit about blocking, damage mitigation, and MOV was there once the Falcon hit the table. It became worse with C-3PO. I quite the game around Wave 4 because it wasn't the same game I started playing. That whole bit has been around for a while. Maybe it just hit your area?

Personally, I like that Disney took over as it means MORE Star Wars everywhere. I mean, it's a beautiful franchise that's sat in a quiet corner for far too long. I grew up watching Star Wars at the drive in on the weekends. Same with all my friends. None of them went through all the EU stuff. We still love Star Wars. I think you are more of the exception with knowing all the EU details. I'll be able to fly my Star Wars freak flag out in public and it be OK with the new movies coming out. Disney has done a great job with the Marvel stuff. I'm ready for them to do more with Star Wars.

In FFG We Trust.

Amen.

W5/6 were a love letter to Star Wars Galaxies and Shadows of the Empire, and the release of Scum and Villainy created an exciting new frontier of starfighter combat unexplored prior in the books and video games (Galaxies notwithstanding). Facing down Aggressors would be as terrifying and frustrating as one would imagine heavy starfighters piloted by insane killer robots.

...

Thus far Wave 7 pushes the frontier of the Expanded Universe once again- K-Wings and Punishers have never seen form in miniature or video game representation, and neither did the Hounds' Tooth. The Khiraxz continues the Galaxies representation, and the Raider has been a grand success aesthetically, integrating extremely well into the existing design space.

Not quite true. The Hounds Tooth, Starvipers and Aggressor were all in Empire at War: Forces of Corruption and the Punisher is from the even older RTS Galactic Battlegrounds.

The thing is, like all games.. if it gets so that the new stuff isnt very good.. well stop buying it and play it at the point you enjoy.

I used to have to play up to date editions of 40k and WFB when i worked at GW but in my spare time i played older systems i enjoyed more as i thought they were better.

These days I only play 1st edition 40k (Rogue Trader), 3rd edition WFB, Necromunda and old A4 boxed games like dungeonquest.

Im a lot happier for it.

If Disney and JJ really muck up the new films and make awful models i'll still play xwing, i'll just find likeminded gamers who are happy to play 'OT films only ship games' or 'pre wave 9 xwing'.

A lot of people get caught up in chasing the 'new thing' , so much so that they are not appreciating what they have now.

It was inevitable, but it is OUR fault if you don't want lo loose the "old movies theme". I still play Ad&d second edition ( not very often ) and now the fifth is in the stores and TSR faded away more or less 20 years ago.

If you want X, Y, Advanced...stick to it. My game group will not mix ep 4-6 and ep 7 ships because we want to play that fantastic 70-80s ships. It is our choice, not Disney or FFG's. It is good to have options to choose from, but...

Flames of War. A simple and suscesful rule set to deploy your tanks. There is a WWI game, WW2, and vietnam. But you do not build a list including Shermans and Cobras !!!

FFG will do whatever needed to sell. And we must think what to buy. I think it should be OK have the option to buy Naboo ships. I hate them, but if you was a 8 years old boy in the 2000, it is a different matter.

These days I only play 1st edition 40k (Rogue Trader), 3rd edition WFB, Necromunda and old A4 boxed games like dungeonquest.

Got, got and got for the first three. (how can you read the tiny font in 3rd??) Never heard of dungeonquest though...?

To me Realm of chaos is needed for the first two (unless you are using the system to make Star Wars or another game setting that is non-GW), and even though it can lead to epically unbalanced games, the random army generation and daemon generation is MAGIC (as is ork weapon gen, you know it to be true!)

Ah 3rd ed WFB and rogue trader were really intended to be played with a GM and not competitively. If you play it as 2000 point head to head it can fall over if either player is a d**k.

Dungeonquest was a GW licence of a swedish game called 'drak borgen' (dragons tower i think) and its ace, your chances of surviving a game are about 16 per cent, the board is random every time... i think FFG make a licensed edition now.

edit: yes they do.. if you buy one game in your life, buy this. Very good fun, takes about an hour tops for a game and very easy to get 'non gamers' into. In my final year at uni i shared a house with six girls, none of them gamers or geek types and they would happily play this several times a week.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/dungeonquest-revised-edition/

Add BloodBowl to the list. One of the few games that, perhaps, will be played in my golden years. " I try to catch the ball and do a 4 koigran"!!!!....ehhhhhh...grandpa...are you tired???

SW: Rebels was the first step in claiming the Civil War Era, then demolishing the Expanded Universe canon entirely; then the planned sequels and splinter movies. As if on cue, we've receiving SW: Rebels ships and the new Core Set, three months before the film's release, with a tidal wave of new toys and merchandise of characters we hardly know anything about, all before we know if Episode VII is going to be loved or hated.

I might argue with your timeline slightly (a minor nit to pick) - EU became Legends prior to the release of Rebels. Rebels was certainly in development during those discussions and probably helped to make that decision but strictly speaking, it came after EU went away

This touches on my one complaint so far. No one has seen Episode VII yet. No one knows if it is any good or not, but already everyone is lapping it up and saying how excited they are to spend money on the new products. Personally, whether I am excited or not by the T-70 and the TIE/FO will be entirely down to whether the film is actually any good or if it's just another Jar Jar Binks atrocity. My sincere hope is that it will be brilliant, but for now I'm not going to get excited, nor am I going to buy any products from the film until I've seen it. The majority of Waves 1-6 are ships and pilots I knew and grew up knowing, so I wanted them as soon as they were announced. Any Episode VII products just don't have that appeal... yet. Similarly, Rebels TV show ships will probably never appeal to me as I think the show is dire.

I guess some people are here purely for the game, with the playing pieces and pilots just being points and abilities. For me though, the whole reason I play this game, is because it's Star Wars and it's the Star Wars I grew up with.

Honestly FFG is continuing the same vector they started with.

They started with the core ships, the X-Wing, Y-Wing, Tie Fighter and Tie Advanced. Then they added the movie ships in, and then started with the EU ships.

It makes perfect sense that they'd add ships from Rebels in, since that very much fits into the Galactic Civil War era.

Then they'll continue on with the new movies. They are IMO doing it the right way with them, by making them subfactions. They'd be stupid to not include them in the game, because they will sell well. But because they're subfactions they're easy to keep out. Just have to say 'no Resistance/FO ships'... But even then, it's not the T-70 belongs in the game less so then the K-Wing or E-Wing.

This touches on my one complaint so far. No one has seen Episode VII yet. No one knows if it is any good or not, but already everyone is lapping it up and saying how excited they are to spend money on the new products. Personally, whether I am excited or not by the T-70 and the TIE/FO will be entirely down to whether the film is actually any good or if it's just another Jar Jar Binks atrocity. My sincere hope is that it will be brilliant, but for now I'm not going to get excited, nor am I going to buy any products from the film until I've seen it. The majority of Waves 1-6 are ships and pilots I knew and grew up knowing, so I wanted them as soon as they were announced. Any Episode VII products just don't have that appeal... yet. Similarly, Rebels TV show ships will probably never appeal to me as I think the show is dire.

I guess some people are here purely for the game, with the playing pieces and pilots just being points and abilities. For me though, the whole reason I play this game, is because it's Star Wars and it's the Star Wars I grew up with.

Hype has a negative effect on me - the more hype I see, the more convinced I get that something's being covered up, and the (overblown IMO) reactions to what we have seen just feed into that.

So, OP, yes.

(note: this really only applies to the Ep7 stuff, the Rebels stuff is at least decent-looking)

. But I can't help feeling a little bit cynical on how Disney is so mechanically and ruthlessly pushing their new range of Star Wars toys on us and how naive we must be (self included) if we're just gobbling it up- all before the film has even been released.

I'm not really sure what you expected. Disney, one of the largest multimedia entities on the planet was handed the keys to a generally beloved franchise and told 'have fun'. Lucasfilm did this same aggressive marketing stuff before episode 1 came out.

Oh quit your whining about the EU, the EU was always of a lesser status to anything moving, animated or live action. If it moved and contradicted written or drawn, the latter would be brushed aside like a leaf in a firestorm, without blinking.

Your precious Thrawn, Xizor, E-Wing, Mara Jade, Karrde, Corran or whatever were never set in stone.

Much as I like parts of the EU, what Disney did was no different than what Lucas himself did.

I have found myself thinking of this:

a lot lately.

But, I'm getting the FA starter because I like the ships. Other than that, one day I'd like a Kylo Ren lightsaber. But the rest of the merchandising holds no interest to me. I've too many FFG purchases to make between X-Wing, Roleplay and I want to start Armada.

This touches on my one complaint so far. No one has seen Episode VII yet. No one knows if it is any good or not, but already everyone is lapping it up and saying how excited they are to spend money on the new products. Personally, whether I am excited or not by the T-70 and the TIE/FO will be entirely down to whether the film is actually any good or if it's just another Jar Jar Binks atrocity. My sincere hope is that it will be brilliant, but for now I'm not going to get excited, nor am I going to buy any products from the film until I've seen it. The majority of Waves 1-6 are ships and pilots I knew and grew up knowing, so I wanted them as soon as they were announced. Any Episode VII products just don't have that appeal... yet. Similarly, Rebels TV show ships will probably never appeal to me as I think the show is dire.

I guess some people are here purely for the game, with the playing pieces and pilots just being points and abilities. For me though, the whole reason I play this game, is because it's Star Wars and it's the Star Wars I grew up with.

For one....I refuse to believe that Disney will kill the sacred cow with Star Wars. They just spent a lot of money on it and will not make a bad film. Next, they just have to make an OK movie for it to be a hit.

Next, most people here are here for the game. I don't care how the movie is, but I will still have fun with the new T-70's and Tie /FO's.

I've never had much nostalgia for E-wings and TIE phantoms. Decimators? Never even heard of them. I prefer new ships with their actual fleshed-out pilots and crew.

Also: Dengar and Zuckuss? Not so Disney.

I don't care how the movie is, but I will still have fun with the new T-70's and Tie /FO's.

Yeah the movie could be worse then Eps 1-3 combined and I'll still have fun flying the T-70 and Tie FO, because they are fun ships to fly.

Since Disney acquired the Star Wars property they have ruthlessly embarked on a well-planned campaign of expansion and merchandising: SW: Rebels was the first step in claiming the Civil War Era, then demolishing the Expanded Universe canon entirely; then the planned sequels and splinter movies. As if on cue, we've receiving SW: Rebels ships and the new Core Set, three months before the film's release, with a tidal wave of new toys and merchandise of characters we hardly know anything about, all before we know if Episode VII is going to be loved or hated.

It all feels a little unfamiliar and forced. If Wave 1-7 was about seeing the most esoteric of the old EU finally represented on the tabletop, Wave 8 and onward is going to be what Disney depicts on screen and dictates to be merchandised. Nostalgia no longer; Cold blooded profit motive is going to be what drives future waves of X-Wing releases.

All you're saying here is "ruthlessly exploiting the intentionally toyetic nature of the films and spin-offs was OK when it was stuff I personally have nostalgia for". Which is, you know, perfectly valid as an opinion. You feel how you feel. But it's not even close to a universal truth.

And if you seriously think we're never going to see anything else from the EU when FFG have either released or announced every ship we've yet seen from NuStarWars I don't really know what to tell you, other than I'm not convinced that Wave 9 will be the Special Forces TIE, Kylo Ren's shuttle and um... er... that's it.