I had a case in a game yesterday where a player rolled a Triumph on a Knowledge check. Knowing that triumph and despair shouldn't relate directly to succeeding or failing the check, we struggled to think of how to interpret the triumph.

Does anyone have any suggestions for this kind of case, or advice on how they've handled it in the past?

Can you give more details on the check?

To my mind, whenever a GM is asking for a skill roll they should already have an idea of what Advantage, Threat, Triumph or Despair results should look like. What is the point of the roll? What does success represent? What does failure? Are there any side benefits or challenges this situation can develop? What is the best case scenario? What is the worst?

Making sure there is context for the results before asking for the roll will save you a hassle later.

Triumphs I have used in Knowledge checks in the past; Find the info in dramatically fast time (1/10). Find the info plus additional stuff that will directly enhance it. (The weapon shipment was going to the Wheel, but also include the fact that it was a restock due to the fact the shop was recently bought by a Black Sun holding company.) Know the information, but also what makes the information valid beyond doubt.(The cure for Red Hallash Fever is a specific hard to find antibiotic, and the reason that it is so effective is it was a manufactured bioweapon, not a naturally occurring disease.)

Can you give more details on the check?

A branch of the Empire (Imperial Reclamation Service) was pillaging artefacts and relics from some venerated ruins on Taanab. The player wanted to know if their character knew anything this agency and what their objectives might be. We called a Knowledge (Core Worlds) check.

I disagree that it is the GM's job to have all of that prepared and canned. This game is all about the narrative and the players should have total input on that narrative since it was rolled by them.

I would have ruled that a Triumph gives a PC intimate knowledge of a specific subject... so long as that doesn't spoil the mystery of an adventure framework.

The GM wouldn't be obligated to read a wikipedia-style entry but if the PC wants to know something relevant, the GM would be obligated to share. The obligation for the PC would be to ask a relevant question, not just state "Tell me everything."

In your case, I would have given the player a brief overview of the Imperial Reclamation Service (I assume, as the GM, you already know this) and an overview of their motivations with regard to the adventure.

Can you give more details on the check?

A branch of the Empire (Imperial Reclamation Service) was pillaging artefacts and relics from some venerated ruins on Taanab. The player wanted to know if their character knew anything this agency and what their objectives might be. We called a Knowledge (Core Worlds) check.

In that case I would have said something along the lines of "The Imperial Reclamation Service is a governement body you never did hear a whole lot about. However one of its sr. officers Tuhl Nahram is a name that rings a bell. He was stationed in your hometown of .... and you have always been friendly eventhough your backgrounds were as different as they are."

I disagree that it is the GM's job to have all of that prepared and canned. This game is all about the narrative and the players should have total input on that narrative since it was rolled by them.

Totally - I try to remember to encourage the players narrate their advantages and triumphs. I might offer suggestions. Likewise on my (GM) threat and despair results, I offer the players opportunity to choose the outcomes. I.e the roller chooses the good stuff, the other side chooses the negative ones.

I disagree that it is the GM's job to have all of that prepared and canned. This game is all about the narrative and the players should have total input on that narrative since it was rolled by them.

I am going to assume that is in reference to my post.

I don't "have it prepared and canned." I have an idea of what the results could produce. I don't dictate, but I am ready with answers.

As a GM you can only guarantee what you know. Player input is great and very welcome. But if nothing is offered, the GM needs to make the call about what the dice roll means.

Or else you end up asking for rolls and then scratching your head about what it could mean.

Can you give more details on the check?

A branch of the Empire (Imperial Reclamation Service) was pillaging artefacts and relics from some venerated ruins on Taanab. The player wanted to know if their character knew anything this agency and what their objectives might be. We called a Knowledge (Core Worlds) check.

It sort of depends what your players intend to do about the situation. If they're looking to get their hands on those artefacts, then the Triumph could mean that the PC knows where they'll be shipping the artefacts for cleaning/evaluation before they go into some high-security facility somewhere. Or if they intend to infiltrate the Imperial operation then they know something about their routines and protocols that will make an infiltration easier.

Can you give more details on the check?

A branch of the Empire (Imperial Reclamation Service) was pillaging artefacts and relics from some venerated ruins on Taanab. The player wanted to know if their character knew anything this agency and what their objectives might be. We called a Knowledge (Core Worlds) check.

A Triumph would be knowing precisely who is in charge of the specific operation and that they have a passion for vintage Corellian whisky.

Some good ideas - I will bear these in mind when this kind of situation comes up again.

In this case, the roll was successful. But I wonder if the above suggestions would make sense if the roll resulted in failure.

Can you give more details on the check?

A branch of the Empire (Imperial Reclamation Service) was pillaging artefacts and relics from some venerated ruins on Taanab. The player wanted to know if their character knew anything this agency and what their objectives might be. We called a Knowledge (Core Worlds) check.

In that case I would have said something along the lines of "The Imperial Reclamation Service is a governement body you never did hear a whole lot about. However one of its sr. officers Tuhl Nahram is a name that rings a bell. He was stationed in your hometown of .... and you have always been friendly eventhough your backgrounds were as different as they are."

The reason I like this answer from DanteRotterdam is that it's precisely the kind of thing that moves the game forward. If knowing about the IRS is important to the game, this is the perfect way to provide an opportunity for another way to learn about them. It also opens up all kinds of possibilities for dealing with the officer, anything from loosening his lips at the bar to kidnapping.

Remember, the crb has suggestions for how advantages, threats, Despair and Triumph could be used in all the skill writeups except the combat skills.

Some good ideas - I will bear these in mind when this kind of situation comes up again.

In this case, the roll was successful. But I wonder if the above suggestions would make sense if the roll resulted in failure.

Most of the suggested ideas about extra pieces of information would only make sense if the character also succeeded on the roll.

In this case, success or failure on the Knowledge check determines whether the character does or does not know anything of substance about the Imperial Reclaimation Service.

If he succeeds and also rolls a triumph, the most straightforward ruling is that he both knows, roughly, what the IRS is and also happens to know something about them that is especially useful to the PCs in this scenario.

But if he fails he doesn't really know anything about the IRS at all, so he can't know anything useful either (unless it's a very tangential sort of fact that's only vaguely related to the IRS, or something). Instead failure with a triumph should mean something like, "You don't know the answer to that question; but you do know of a person who definitely would..." Or, perhaps, as Dante suggested, "You don't really know anything about this organisation or what they do; but you remember your wife mentioning that her uncle works for them."

That is the best thing to happen to a GM

Excuse yourself for a minute from the group, go through your notes and drop that one obvious HINT or CLUE or PLOT that will steer them exactly in the direction you want the campaign to go.

Also in an other group there were instances where we sometimes agreed that 1 Triumph gets "saved" as one XP towards the next level bought. We only used this very rarely, for example during a knowledge skill I remembered a book or something that will help me study in the future, hence the 1 XP discount in the future. But that rule looses all sense when it is overused, so be carefull.

When failing triumphantly at knowledge, the PC usually will get indirect but useful information, like: "Unfortunately you know nothing about the IRS, but, regarding the ancient ruins on Taanab, you just recalled..."

It's probably relevant, I posted something about this kind of thing yesterday:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/188406-running-a-freeform-plot/

A branch of the Empire (Imperial Reclamation Service) was pillaging artefacts and relics from some venerated ruins on Taanab. The player wanted to know if their character knew anything this agency and what their objectives might be. We called a Knowledge (Core Worlds) check.

The idea of a heretofore unrealized contact in the agency is a reasonable one, but what came to my mind is that the triumph could provide some crucial knowledge about the ruins themselves - something that the IRS itself doesn't know and that can be used against it, or at the very least, to work around it.

I disagree that it is the GM's job to have all of that prepared and canned. This game is all about the narrative and the players should have total input on that narrative since it was rolled by them.

I am going to assume that is in reference to my post.

I don't "have it prepared and canned." I have an idea of what the results could produce. I don't dictate, but I am ready with answers.

As a GM you can only guarantee what you know. Player input is great and very welcome. But if nothing is offered, the GM needs to make the call about what the dice roll means.

Or else you end up asking for rolls and then scratching your head about what it could mean.

A little more elaboration next time please.

A triumph on a Knowledge check should mean that the character publishes a paper on the topic at hand. Much prestige and possibilities for a tenured job come his way.

It's important for the GM to know all the angles of each situations... if the players can't find a good use for their Destiny point, then the GM can suggest one. Knowledge checks are usually tricky but the "you know a guy..." is always a good way to rule a Triumph.... Succeed with Triumph : you get the info and you know a guy that will help you do X ... Fail with Triumph : you don't get the info, but you know a guy that could help you get it.... You could also throw in some kind of flaw in their security grid : they are using an old security algorithm ; their security cameras are vulnerable to correilian bat silk that could be used to pass by unseen ; the guards love rodian grilled chops and could be distracted easily....

Anyway it's always easier when the players come up with something... and it's always more fun for the players themselves when they have that great idea.

So, one thing I’ve started doing is thinking of ways that a Triumph could be used, regardless of who rolls it and when.

If someone else doesn’t come up with a good suggestion immediately, I offer my idea up.

This was one of my favourites, when in melee against a minion group of Gamorrean guards who had been firing blaster rifles at our party:

So, what — I chop his off the head of this one Gamorrean and it lands in the hands of his buddy standing next to him, thus taking the place of the gun that had been there? And then they both scream at each other when they realize that one guy is dead and has his head chopped off, and the other guy is holding his buddies head in his hands?

I can’t remember any others off the top of my head, but I try to come up with the funniest off-the-wall ideas I can, and more often than not the other players and the GM seem to like them.

As I see it, the more practice you get at this sort of thing, the better you get at it.

A Triumph should be a bit of a Scene changer. In this case an ally could come forward who can help the PC's in dealing with the Empire, or a collector offers them a lot of credits to commandeer some of the artefact for them, both of these work with a successful or failed check.. In this exact instance, where it was a successful check then the PC could have figured out exactly what the Empire is after, and possibly an opportunity to take the things from them.

A Triumph should be a bit of a Scene changer.

Totally this.