A Triumph should be a bit of a Scene changer.

Totally this.

If you think about a combat scene, 1 Triumph is gonna give you an edge in the fight, 2 Triumphs is THE scene changer.

-> 1x Triumph = a slab of concrete drops from the ceiling in front of the players, giving them a free cover for the entire fight...

-> 2x Triumph = a slab of concrete drops on the ennemy team, squashing both minion groups, leaving only the Nemesis to take care of...

I would apply the same logic to any other roll, be it social or knowledge roll.

-> 1x Triumph = you find a weakness to exploit, giving you an edge to overcome the obstacle...

-> 2x Triumph = there is an accident in front of the main building, both guards run to the scene to help the wounded, leaving the main door unguarded...

Hope this helps.

I would apply the same logic

A Triumph should be a bit of a Scene changer.

Totally this.

If you think about a combat scene, 1 Triumph is gonna give you an edge in the fight, 2 Triumphs is THE scene changer.

-> 1x Triumph = a slab of concrete drops from the ceiling in front of the players, giving them a free cover for the entire fight...

-> 2x Triumph = a slab of concrete drops on the ennemy team, squashing both minion groups, leaving only the Nemesis to take care of...

I really don't agree with this... Well at least not if the shot is a miss such as per the topic here.

If you shoot and miss with 2 triumphs I would have reinforcements show up to aid you, or have a weapons drop end up on your side instead of theirs. However I would never make a miss a hit anyway...

I would apply the same logic to any other roll, be it social or knowledge roll.

-> 1x Triumph = you find a weakness to exploit, giving you an edge to overcome the obstacle...

-> 2x Triumph = there is an accident in front of the main building, both guards run to the scene to help the wounded, leaving the main door unguarded...

In this case the 2 triumphs have nothing in the way of being a result of either a knowledge or a social skill but more on dumb luck... I would Always try to make it something the character did rather then having such a deus ex-machina invoked because of their rolls.

Yeah I agree - if a player fails a check but gets a triumph, that triumph shouldn't do what the check was trying to do in the first place, because the PC has failed to do it; the dice have told the player this already.

Likewise a despair on a successful roll shouldn't negate the intention of the check.

If the shot is a miss.... depends on what you were shooting...

If you were shooting at the minion group, you missed the shot but rolled 1 Triumph, you can say that your shot hit the main lighting in the room, plunging the room in darkness for a few seconds, just enough to give a setback dice to the opponents while they try to shoot your.... If you fired at the first minion group, you missed the shot but rolled 2 Triumph, then you could say that one stray shot hit a gas tank on the nearby bridge, collapsing it and preventing the ennemy reinforcements from reaching you guys and joining the fight...

1x Triumph is a slight advantage in the fight.... 2x Triumph is a Scene changer...

You're doing a Coordination check to stay up while caught in a fight during an earthquake.... you fail the coordination check but roll a Triumph, so you fall to the ground but end up behind a slab of concrete gaining cover.... you fail the coordination check but roll 2 Triumph, so the ground falls under you and you fall in an underground cave, you suffer 2 wounds and 2 strain, but you are now in a tunnel, far enough from the ennemies that you can flee easily running in the cave network.... not knowing what you might find down there...

The Triumph or double Triumph doesn't always have to be something the character did, it might be dumb luck.... it's just an event that changes the course of the scene, for good or for greater effect.

In the Core Rulebook, they give the exemple of rolling a Triumph on a Ranged attack and hitting the door controls behind the troopers to lock the door and prevent them from fleeing... how is that NOT Dumb luck ? it wasn't what the character was trying to do, but the Triumph gave him a slight edge, restraining the movement of the ennemy...

For the dumb luck about the accident... you might just say that the guards are of the Gamorreen Gurk'ar'Nop clan, reknown for being easily distracted... the players wait a few minutes and see a Twi'lek girl walk by and the gamorreens just go after her trying to get a "new" slave for the boss.... it's almost the same thing but the 2 Triumph was "linked" to something the characters knew.... but it's almost the same thing.... the guards left their post.

Likewise, a despair on a successful roll shouldn't negate the intention of the check....

1 Despair on a security check means you've left a trace that could link the intrusion to you... 2 Despair might mean you triggered an alarm and guards will be arriving in a few minutes....

I think Despair on a knowledge check is really harder to rule....

Like to try ?

If the shot is a miss.... depends on what you were shooting...

If you were shooting at the minion group, you missed the shot but rolled 1 Triumph, you can say that your shot hit the main lighting in the room, plunging the room in darkness for a few seconds, just enough to give a setback dice to the opponents while they try to shoot your.... If you fired at the first minion group, you missed the shot but rolled 2 Triumph, then you could say that one stray shot hit a gas tank on the nearby bridge, collapsing it and preventing the ennemy reinforcements from reaching you guys and joining the fight...

1x Triumph is a slight advantage in the fight.... 2x Triumph is a Scene changer...

You're doing a Coordination check to stay up while caught in a fight during an earthquake.... you fail the coordination check but roll a Triumph, so you fall to the ground but end up behind a slab of concrete gaining cover.... you fail the coordination check but roll 2 Triumph, so the ground falls under you and you fall in an underground cave, you suffer 2 wounds and 2 strain, but you are now in a tunnel, far enough from the ennemies that you can flee easily running in the cave network.... not knowing what you might find down there...

The Triumph or double Triumph doesn't always have to be something the character did, it might be dumb luck.... it's just an event that changes the course of the scene, for good or for greater effect.

In the Core Rulebook, they give the exemple of rolling a Triumph on a Ranged attack and hitting the door controls behind the troopers to lock the door and prevent them from fleeing... how is that NOT Dumb luck ? it wasn't what the character was trying to do, but the Triumph gave him a slight edge, restraining the movement of the ennemy...

For the dumb luck about the accident... you might just say that the guards are of the Gamorreen Gurk'ar'Nop clan, reknown for being easily distracted... the players wait a few minutes and see a Twi'lek girl walk by and the gamorreens just go after her trying to get a "new" slave for the boss.... it's almost the same thing but the 2 Triumph was "linked" to something the characters knew.... but it's almost the same thing.... the guards left their post.

Likewise, a despair on a successful roll shouldn't negate the intention of the check....

1 Despair on a security check means you've left a trace that could link the intrusion to you... 2 Despair might mean you triggered an alarm and guards will be arriving in a few minutes....

I think Despair on a knowledge check is really harder to rule....

Like to try ?

Dumb luck is fine, as long as it caused by the action or tied to the action of the pc...

Despair on a knowledge check?

Let's see... I'll use the example given earlier.

My players don't know the imperial agency but one of them recognizes btr46 a protocol droid that was stationed at his last outpost, he is sure btr will help him enterbthe building. Despair however means btr has since undergone a memory whipe, he is instructed to ring the alarm at the slightest provocation.