My one plea for the reboot of L5R - please put full playsets of cards in the starter box. Do not make us buy 3 to get a full playset of a single card. When I was big into LotR LCG, we bought 6 (yes, 6) core sets to get 2 playsets of Unexpected Courage. That was...unpleasant. It greatly increases the initial buy-in.

LotR was particularly troublesome because so much of the core was for the event deck. But no LCG to date has included a full play set in core and I don't expect this one to either.

It really comes down to a design philosophy. Completionists and competitive players want a full play set in the core set, but they aren't the only ones who buy. What about the casual person or the person who is just interested in trying the game out? Sure, they could make the same card diversity and put a full playset's worth in the core, but that means the core is going to cost about twice as much. That means FFG is much less likely to sell it to someone that just wants to try it out.

Instead, they include a wide variety of cards in the core so that new players can have some cards to build decks with (albeit in a limited way) and to show what kinds of things they can do with the cards in the game. They go for breadth instead of depth.

Also consider this: What if FFG has done market research and determined that $40 is their target price for a core. That's the price that will move the most units, given the quality and quantity of the product and development. There are two things you can do. 1) You put in a full playset but sacrifice card diversity. 2) You increase card diversity, but don't give players a full playset. With option 1, you have a very limited core release. There may be 2 or 3 playable decks at the outset. By choosing option 2, you give players that love the game a chance to buy more copies of cards they like while allowing a variety of deck options at release.

Not likely. They want to have more variety in the core sets to create a good out of box experience. For an idea of what to expect look more at AGoT 2.0 and Conquest LCGs.

*checks watch*

Okay, who had Day 4 in the pool?

yes, i think not single LCG had full playset of each cards inside, which is totally strange, as even monthly packs now have x3 every copy, and starter that you need buy just ONE, forces you to buy 2 more of them, just to get normally most good cards at full playset, which instantly make it worst decision as core cost x2+ times more then single chapter pack, and people normally tend not to trade that x1 cards from core at all

Yeah, not going to happen.

(awaits the demands for completion packs)

It's worth noting that there's a new wrinkle, though. There's now competition that went the full play set route -- the VS System relaunch. What happened?

Price point went up to $50, counters were extremely minimal, and the card pool is only a little over 100, IIRC.

I like VS. fine, but the limited card pool hurts it. Give me a larger card pool at launch every day and twice on Sundays. Also, nicer game components and a lower price point per box.

Can we have a game where I don't _need_ dozens of pieces of paraphernalia? Some stuff is nice to have, but please don't make it necessary to punch out sheets of tokens.

Can we have a game where I don't _need_ dozens of pieces of paraphernalia? Some stuff is nice to have, but please don't make it necessary to punch out sheets of tokens.

Ffg loves their tokens. And so do I. They make nice tokens.

Can we have a game where I don't _need_ dozens of pieces of paraphernalia? Some stuff is nice to have, but please don't make it necessary to punch out sheets of tokens.

Tokens are the best part! (I'm only halfway joking.)

Tokens can do some great things that cards alone cannot. My favorite is how Star Wars uses focus tokens to show that a card has been "tapped." This allows things to get double- or triple-tapped -- or even more! It lets it do something other card games usually don't.

I thoroughly expect at least 4 different tokens -- 2 types of damage tokens and 2 other types of tokens.

It's worth noting that there's a new wrinkle, though. There's now competition that went the full play set route -- the VS System relaunch. What happened?

Price point went up to $50, counters were extremely minimal, and the card pool is only a little over 100, IIRC.

I like VS. fine, but the limited card pool hurts it. Give me a larger card pool at launch every day and twice on Sundays. Also, nicer game components and a lower price point per box.

FFG has been at the LCG business for quite some time. They have been fairly adamant about how they make their core sets, which reflects their boardgame background. Really don't expect them to change the format, as pretty much every LCG goes through this with new players.

Can we have a game where I don't _need_ dozens of pieces of paraphernalia? Some stuff is nice to have, but please don't make it necessary to punch out sheets of tokens.

Welcome to FFG, your cardboard overlords.

I'm not too worried about the playset being in a single box or not as long as it is transparent what number I'll need to buy to get a playset, and it's within a reasonable budget to acquire what I need. I'm budgeting between $120-150 for launch. If it hits that mark, I'll be pretty happy. Bonus points if I can make a deck for myself and one for my wife with the cards in a playset.

It's worth noting that there's a new wrinkle, though. There's now competition that went the full play set route -- the VS System relaunch. What happened?

Price point went up to $50, counters were extremely minimal, and the card pool is only a little over 100, IIRC.

I like VS. fine, but the limited card pool hurts it. Give me a larger card pool at launch every day and twice on Sundays. Also, nicer game components and a lower price point per box.

FFG has been at the LCG business for quite some time. They have been fairly adamant about how they make their core sets, which reflects their boardgame background. Really don't expect them to change the format, as pretty much every LCG goes through this with new players.

Yep, I totally agree. Every time this comes up, I tell people a full play set would cost more for a smaller card pool, and probably reduce the overall quality despite. Everyone who wants a complete play set in the core basically goes, "nuh-uh!"

Well, now we have a company that actually did that, and the resulting product was completely predictable.

Can we have a game where I don't _need_ dozens of pieces of paraphernalia? Some stuff is nice to have, but please don't make it necessary to punch out sheets of tokens.

As long as you don't buy warhammer RPG 3 edition you should be fine. (Seriously it had tokens to show how far apart characters were!) And you don't have to use them. Take Call of Cthulhu LCG for example: comes with a baord and 6 plastic cthulhu statues and a bunch of tokens. I only use the tokens.

I'm not too worried about the playset being in a single box or not as long as it is transparent what number I'll need to buy to get a playset, and it's within a reasonable budget to acquire what I need. I'm budgeting between $120-150 for launch. If it hits that mark, I'll be pretty happy. Bonus points if I can make a deck for myself and one for my wife with the cards in a playset.

Sounds like you'll be set. With the current model, you can pretty much count on buying 3x cores to get a full playset for ~$120 MSRP.

The only exception to that rule was Star Wars where the deck-building mechanic was different so you only needed 2 cores, but they made up for that by making the first deluxe only half a play set so we had to buy 2 of the first deluxe while all other LCGs only need 1 of any deluxe.

Can we have a game where I don't _need_ dozens of pieces of paraphernalia? Some stuff is nice to have, but please don't make it necessary to punch out sheets of tokens.

Tokens are the best part! (I'm only halfway joking.)

Tokens can do some great things that cards alone cannot. My favorite is how Star Wars uses focus tokens to show that a card has been "tapped." This allows things to get double- or triple-tapped -- or even more! It lets it do something other card games usually don't.

I thoroughly expect at least 4 different tokens -- 2 types of damage tokens and 2 other types of tokens.

Maybe two sided honor tokens. (honor on one side, dishonor on the other) Or they could go nuts and have tons of gold/koku tokens! Has anybody here played Tokaido? That game came with cardboard japanese coins that you had to punch out, and then punch out the little square in the middle. It looks nice, but good lord, that's a lot of work.

But aside from the core game, one can expect full playsets?

But aside from the core game, one can expect full playsets?

Yep! Every pack and every deluxe box contains a full playset of cards.

EDIT: With Star Wars being the one exception I mentioned above.

But aside from the core game, one can expect full playsets?

Everything that I've read about their business model says yes.

Maybe two sided honor tokens. (honor on one side, dishonor on the other) Or they could go nuts and have tons of gold/koku tokens! Has anybody here played Tokaido? That game came with cardboard japanese coins that you had to punch out, and then punch out the little square in the middle. It looks nice, but good lord, that's a lot of work.

If they keep the honor requirements similar to the original game, then I would expect a dial, similar to the DSII version in SWLCG.

Maybe two sided honor tokens. (honor on one side, dishonor on the other) Or they could go nuts and have tons of gold/koku tokens! Has anybody here played Tokaido? That game came with cardboard japanese coins that you had to punch out, and then punch out the little square in the middle. It looks nice, but good lord, that's a lot of work.

If they keep the honor requirements similar to the original game, then I would expect a dial, similar to the DSII version in SWLCG.

Given their apparent goal of allowing players to play a 2-player game right out of the box, would you expect 2 dials?

If they keep the honor requirements similar to the original game, then I would expect a dial, similar to the DSII version in SWLCG.

I could even see a more granular dial, that goes 0-20 or whatever. I agree, I expect a dial, as well.

I really felt they were trying hard to include it in Conquest.

Given their apparent goal of allowing players to play a 2-player game right out of the box, would you expect 2 dials?

I would. That'd be consistent with Lord of the Rings.

We'll see if they plan for multplayer out of the box and spring for 4. LotR didn't.

If they keep the honor requirements similar to the original game, then I would expect a dial, similar to the DSII version in SWLCG.

I could even see a more granular dial, that goes 0-20 or whatever. I agree, I expect a dial, as well.

I really felt they were trying hard to include it in Conquest.

The Death Star II Dial that Sithborg was talking about came in the Balance of the Force expansion and I believe it could go all the way to 99 if you wanted, while the core dial only goes to 12.

I would much rather if they found a way to break this down into clan starters. It is much easier to get people into the game if you can just be like "you're a pony, buy a pony deck". Or perhaps just jump straight to the deluxe boxes, so you can buy clans two by two, rather than all 8, and have a neutral pack to bolster that with the fate cards for everyone.