Ok I see why I was confusing myself.

So if I'm understanding now it would be like this maybe:

two blasters 7 damage with paired weapons and I shoot and get 2 successes and 5 advantage I spend 2 advantage to kick off paired, hitting first target for 9 damage twice then use one of the 3 advantages to activated Spitfire to hit a new target for 9 damage.

I still have two advantage left but not sure how to use them with Spitfire since it says you can spend for each additional hit generated.

Can you spitfire the same target 2 more times since a lot of the individuals say it can be only be one additional target?

(If only one additional target, can you use all 3 advantage to shoot them 3 times or are the other two advantaged basically wasted for spitfire)

I do know advantage isn't wasted: but just for spitfire was wondering, since it says "each additional hit generated as part of attack can be allocated to any other target within range of the weapon".

( I would like to think it this way I hit main target with paired and still have 3 advantage left so I spend one advantage to hit a new target since ability says other target, I spend another advantage to hit a new target because spitfire will not let you target same target and so on for the final advantage.) In this example I have shot 4 targets first with two blast and three other target for one blast each.

(If I used the only one additial target then I would shoot first target with two blasts and other individual with three Blast.)

I'm slowly learning

12 minutes ago, Pantherian said:

Ok I see why I was confusing myself.

So if I'm understanding now it would be like this maybe:

two blasters 7 damage with paired weapons and I shoot and get 2 successes and 5 advantage I spend 2 advantage to kick off paired, hitting first target for 9 damage twice then use one of the 3 advantages to activated Spitfire to hit a new target for 9 damage.

I still have two advantage left but not sure how to use them with Spitfire since it says you can spend for each additional hit generated.

Can you spitfire the same target 2 more times since a lot of the individuals say it can be only be one additional target?

(If only one additional target, can you use all 3 advantage to shoot them 3 times or are the other two advantaged basically wasted for spitfire)

I do know advantage isn't wasted: but just for spitfire was wondering, since it says "each additional hit generated as part of attack can be allocated to any other target within range of the weapon".

( I would like to think it this way I hit main target with paired and still have 3 advantage left so I spend one advantage to hit a new target since ability says other target, I spend another advantage to hit a new target because spitfire will not let you target same target and so on for the final advantage.) In this example I have shot 4 targets first with two blast and three other target for one blast each.

(If I used the only one additial target then I would shoot first target with two blasts and other individual with three Blast.)

I'm slowly learning

Spitfire is a passive ability that doesn't cost anything to use. All Spitfire does is, if you score multiple hits, you can for free split those hits up among any number of enemies. Spitfire does not provide extra hits, it just lets you target other enemies if you already happen to have multiple hits.

So you use two advantage to activate Linked for the extra shot, If one of your blasters has Autofire, you can use another 2 Advantage for a third shot.

you can not ever get more than two shots unles your guns have Autofire, no matter what you roll.

No. All it allows you to do is use the linked quality specifically from dual wielding to hit a target separate from the original target. No hits in excess of those you would ordinarily be able to trigger.

For a normal two weapon attack, you spend two advantage to get a hit from the second weapon on the original target. Spitfire allows that second hit to be applied to separate target. That's all.

Where it goes off the rails is the introduction of the new trigger that allows pistols to be linked 1. So with two linked 1 pistols you can get up to four hits by using six advantage. Spitfire would allow the three other hits to be against any valid target by my reading. Now linked does say " Additional hits from linked weapons may only be applied against the original target." -emphasis mine. However since specific overrides general, the wording on Spitfire "each additional hit generated as part of attack can be allocated to any other target within range of the weapon" would mean that you could allocate them as you felt like it. This does make it a particularly nasty combination against opponents with Adversary.

44 minutes ago, Ahrimon said:

For a normal two weapon attack, you spend two advantage to get a hit from the second weapon on the original target. Spitfire allows that second hit to be applied to separate target. That's all.

Where it goes off the rails is the introduction of the new trigger that allows pistols to be linked 1. So with two linked 1 pistols you can get up to four hits by using six advantage. Spitfire would allow the three other hits to be against any valid target by my reading. Now linked does say " Additional hits from linked weapons may only be applied against the original target." -emphasis mine. However since specific overrides general, the wording on Spitfire "each additional hit generated as part of attack can be allocated to any other target within range of the weapon" would mean that you could allocate them as you felt like it. This does make it a particularly nasty combination against opponents with Adversary.

I get what your saying. I guess I interpret it differently since I now know it has to do with advantage. I read it as the paired attack hits the main opponent and any added advantage allows you to shoot more enemies around you once but cant hit them again until next turn. meaning I have got 5 advantage and 1 success I activate paired and shoot main target twice and then spend the other advantage to shoot 3 more targets once. The talent overrides normal rules that why gunslinger can shoot multiple target. if I'm correct

the talent basically lets you use weaker version of weapon qualities without requiring the quality. you have a weaker version of auto-fire where you can only shoot additional targets once but not allowed to hit them again. so damage could be spread like two 6 damage blasts to main and 6 damage dealt to three other opponent. So if enemies have 3 soak each main would take 6 and other only 3. modded guns defiantly would make this powerful. yea linked 1 would make it stronger if you can activate it each time.

I just figured with gunslinger your so fast with guns you can grab any two range (Light) weapons and use this Talent without the item qualities.

The Adversary part, I will have to bring up to my GM about. The only thing that suck is the Adversary special power to transfer damage to their allies.

I'm understanding what everyone is saying. I just cant understand why I'm told I need specific item qualities to use the full potential of this Talent. When the talent is just modified version of the item qualities. some of them would really improve its abilities but not required

I probably repeated myself a little.

Sorry I'm probably annoying everyone. But everyone is helping explain a lot. This info will probably help my GM also.

51 minutes ago, Pantherian said:

the talent basically lets you use weaker version of weapon qualities without requiring the quality. you have a weaker version of auto-fire where you can only shoot additional targets once but not allowed to hit them again. so damage could be spread like two 6 damage blasts to main and 6 damage dealt to three other opponent. So if enemies have 3 soak each main would take 6 and other only 3. modded guns defiantly would make this powerful. yea linked 1 would make it stronger if you can activate it each time.

I think that you are still misunderstanding (unless I'm misunderstanding you). All success is added to your damage first, before you calculate Advantage. You do not split up succees at all. Example: Dual pistols, 2 Success, 4 Advantage: First, damage. With heavy blaster pistols, that is 9 damage to your first target. Then, with 2 Advantage, you can hit another target with your second weapon. Also dealing 9 damage. Then you have 2 Advantage left over.

Now if we take the same example and add Linked 1 to each pistol, you can trigger additional hits, which can then be allocated to other targets OR the previous targets. With Spitfire, you can still hit targets more than once. It's like a combination of Auto-fire and Linked.

51 minutes ago, Pantherian said:

The Adversary part, I will have to bring up to my GM about. The only thing that suck is the Adversary special power to transfer damage to their allies.

Only a few Adversaries should be able to do that. If you are using the squad rules, that's different, but by and large, if you hit an Adversary, you hit them.

51 minutes ago, Pantherian said:

I just cant understand why I'm told I need specific item qualities to use the full potential of this Talent. When the talent is just modified version of the item qualities. some of them would really improve its abilities but not required

"Full potential" is different than "make useful." There are a lot of Talents that can be dramatically improved through Attachments and even other Talents.

51 minutes ago, Pantherian said:

Sorry I'm probably annoying everyone. But everyone is helping explain a lot. This info will probably help my GM also.

You're fine.

8 hours ago, Pantherian said:

I get what your saying. I guess I interpret it differently since I now know it has to do with advantage. I read it as the paired attack hits the main opponent and any added advantage allows you to shoot more enemies around you once but cant hit them again until next turn. meaning I have got 5 advantage and 1 success I activate paired and shoot main target twice and then spend the other advantage to shoot 3 more targets once. The talent overrides normal rules that why gunslinger can shoot multiple target. if I'm correct

Nothing of that is correct.

First thing you do is you take the Edge Of Empire core rules to page 210 and read the two-weapon combat section, because I strongly suspect you have never done so before and somebody explained it to you incorrectly, and you're just going off that.

A paired attack means you hit your target one time, and you can spend two Advantage to hit that same target again.

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the talent basically lets you use weaker version of weapon qualities without requiring the quality.

No. It doesn't do that at all. It just lets you use the hits you get via weapon qualities on other targets.

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you have a weaker version of auto-fire where you can only shoot additional targets once but not allowed to hit them again.

No. Spitfire is not a weaker version of anything.

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so damage could be spread like two 6 damage blasts to main and 6 damage dealt to three other opponent. So if enemies have 3 soak each main would take 6 and other only 3.

Not even remotely.

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I just figured with gunslinger your so fast with guns you can grab any two range (Light) weapons and use this Talent without the item qualities.

No, you grab the talent, and the talent makes you good enough to hit two guys with your two guns instead of the one guy.

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The Adversary part, I will have to bring up to my GM about. The only thing that suck is the Adversary special power to transfer damage to their allies.

All Adversary normally does is upgrade the difficulty to hit the Nemesis.

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I'm understanding what everyone is saying. I just cant understand why I'm told I need specific item qualities to use the full potential of this Talent.

Because the Talent modifies how those weapon qualities function. If you don't have the weapon qualities, it does nothing. Just like Armor Master does nothing if you don't actually have armor.

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When the talent is just modified version of the item qualities. some of them would really improve its abilities but not required

Spitfire is not a modified version. It is something that modifies how some weapon qualities work.

3 hours ago, micheldebruyn said:

11 hours ago, Pantherian said:

I get what your saying. I guess I interpret it differently since I now know it has to do with advantage. I read it as the paired attack hits the main opponent and any added advantage allows you to shoot more enemies around you once but cant hit them again until next turn. meaning I have got 5 advantage and 1 success I activate paired and shoot main target twice and then spend the other advantage to shoot 3 more targets once. The talent overrides normal rules that why gunslinger can shoot multiple target. if I'm correct

Nothing of that is correct.

First thing you do is you take the Edge Of Empire core rules to page 210 and read the two-weapon combat section, because I strongly suspect you have never done so before and somebody explained it to you incorrectly, and you're just going off that.

A paired attack means you hit your target one time, and you can spend two Advantage to hit that same target again.

The paired attack part I believe I know I've read it multiple time unless your saying I add them together before soak.

ok I guess I didn't make it sound correct.

I have 2 blasters that deal 5 damage each, I roll my attack with corresponding dice which nets me 1 success. and 6 Advantage. the hit target for 6 damage with primary weapon, then spend 2 of the five advantage to activate paired to hit with second weapon for another 6 damage. if they have a soak of 3 I would subtract 3 from each damage which would leave the target receiving only 6 damage total.

After the Spitfire is activated by successfully using paired I should be able to use 1 of the advantages to target a different target and deal 6 damage to them since only one gun can be used for ability. If I spend another advantage with I should be able to target a new target for 6 damage also and so on for any other advantage I have left. The full ability of spitfire should be usable with any basic range (light) weapon.

Passive = Spitfire - After the character makes a successful combined check with two ranged (Light) weapons, each additional hit generated as part of the attack can be allotted to any other target within range of weapon .

The bold area is where my issue is that I cant figure out. I read as I can spend the extra advantage to target someone new but. If the limit is just one than this is mostly useless except after mods and item qualities. I'm going to go with that is what everyone is trying to tell me. I basically was not understanding additional hit generated part. I just was reading it as I wrote above ( in red ). Sorry I was not understanding that.

So if I'm correct now the ability works this way without mods or item quality's: I have 2 blaster that deal 5 damage each, I roll my attack with corresponding dice which nets me 1 success and 6 advantage, I hit main target for 6 damage with primary weapon, then spend 2 advantage activate two weapon combat which then activate Spitfire. spend 1 advantage to use Spitfire which allows me to target another enemy with secondary for 6 damage also. The other advantage is used for whatever else either before or after or during the combat.

I was thinking more like a western gunslinger which can shoot multiple people before they can shoot back. Doing low damage to basically disable them and lower there life slowly down.

47 minutes ago, Pantherian said:

The paired attack part I believe I know I've read it multiple time unless your saying I add them together before soak.

ok I guess I didn't make it sound correct.

I have 2 blasters that deal 5 damage each, I roll my attack with corresponding dice which nets me 1 success. and 6 Advantage. the hit target for 6 damage with primary weapon, then spend 2 of the five advantage to activate paired to hit with second weapon for another 6 damage. if they have a soak of 3 I would subtract 3 from each damage which would leave the target receiving only 6 damage total.

After the Spitfire is activated by successfully using paired I should be able to use 1 of the advantages to target a different target and deal 6 damage to them since only one gun can be used for ability. If I spend another advantage with I should be able to target a new target for 6 damage also and so on for any other advantage I have left. The full ability of spitfire should be usable with any basic range (light) weapon.

Passive = Spitfire - After the character makes a successful combined check with two ranged (Light) weapons, each additional hit generated as part of the attack can be allotted to any other target within range of weapon .

The bold area is where my issue is that I cant figure out. I read as I can spend the extra advantage to target someone new but. If the limit is just one than this is mostly useless except after mods and item qualities. I'm going to go with that is what everyone is trying to tell me. I basically was not understanding additional hit generated part. I just was reading it as I wrote above ( in red ). Sorry I was not understanding that.

So if I'm correct now the ability works this way without mods or item quality's: I have 2 blaster that deal 5 damage each, I roll my attack with corresponding dice which nets me 1 success and 6 advantage, I hit main target for 6 damage with primary weapon, then spend 2 advantage activate two weapon combat which then activate Spitfire. spend 1 advantage to use Spitfire which allows me to target another enemy with secondary for 6 damage also. The other advantage is used for whatever else either before or after or during the combat.

I was thinking more like a western gunslinger which can shoot multiple people before they can shoot back. Doing low damage to basically disable them and lower there life slowly down.

You're so close, but you're missing one important thing: typically, when wielding two weapons or activating Linked, the second hit MUST be allocated to the same target.

Spitfire simply allows you to allocate any of the non-primary hits to any other target within the weapon's range.

What makes this great is in situations where: 1. Your first attack is enough to kill an enemy, or 2. When you're fighting an adversary or nemesis and his minions.

What's great about the second point is that you can wait until the second hit to activate other once-per-attack skills like Deadly Accuracy or to spend your remaining advantage to do critical hits.

36 minutes ago, Pantherian said:

Passive = Spitfire - After the character makes a successful combined check with two ranged (Light) weapons, each additional hit generated as part of the attack can be allotted to any other target within range of weapon .

The bold area is where my issue is that I cant figure out. I read as I can spend the extra advantage to target someone new but. If the limit is just one than this is mostly useless except after mods and item qualities. I'm going to go with that is what everyone is trying to tell me. I basically was not understanding additional hit generated part. I just was reading it as I wrote above ( in red ). Sorry I was not understanding that.

So if I'm correct now the ability works this way without mods or item quality's: I have 2 blaster that deal 5 damage each, I roll my attack with corresponding dice which nets me 1 success and 6 advantage, I hit main target for 6 damage with primary weapon, then spend 2 advantage activate two weapon combat which then activate Spitfire. spend 1 advantage to use Spitfire which allows me to target another enemy with secondary for 6 damage also. The other advantage is used for whatever else either before or after or during the combat.

I was thinking more like a western gunslinger which can shoot multiple people before they can shoot back. Doing low damage to basically disable them and lower there life slowly down.

I think that you may be reading into spitfire too much. I think you are reading the "Each additional hit generated as part of the attack" part and extrapolating that it's generating additional hits. But the only language that creates additional hits anywhere in the two weapon fighting is the part that allows your second weapon to hit the target as well.

Spitfire is a moderately powerful talent that allows the character to bypass the rules that additional hits (from whatever source) all hit the same target.

So it works like this, I have two blasters that deal 5 damage each, I roll and my attack nets me 1 success and 6 advantage. I do 6 damage to the target, and using the rules for dual wielding I can generate an additional hit from the second weapon on the target for two hits of 6 damage each. With the remaining four advantage I could crit or other appropriate effects. Now add in Spitfire and that additional hit from the second weapon can now be applied to any target in range. Moderately useful, especially if you are facing an opponent where the first hit would remove them from combat, now you can hit another.

Upping the odds to demonstrate it's usefulness, lets face off against a Nemesis with adversary 3 and a separate (no squad rules) minion group. Normally I would have to decide to take the increased difficulty to attack the nemesis. But with Spitfire I can attack the minion group and if I hit, use the advantage from my roll to allocate the second hit from two weapon fighting directly to the Nemesis thereby bypassing his adversary talent.

Going crazy, if you add two triggers that give your guns linked 1, you can now spend 6 advantage to generate 3 additional hits (one from two-weapon and two from linked 1) and apply them to any target in range. Including applying three on the nemesis.

In the end, do what works for you and your group, but I think the disconnect between your interpretation and the apparent consensus from the boards is that you are reading spitfire to generate additional hits, and we are not.

1 hour ago, Pantherian said:

Passive = Spitfire - After the character makes a successful combined check with two ranged (Light) weapons, each additional hit generated as part of the attack can be allotted to any other target within range of weapon .

The bold area is where my issue is that I cant figure out. I read as I can spend the extra advantage to target someone new but. If the limit is just one than this is mostly useless except after mods and item qualities. I'm going to go with that is what everyone is trying to tell me. I basically was not understanding additional hit generated part. I just was reading it as I wrote above ( in red ). Sorry I was not understanding that.

So if I'm correct now the ability works this way without mods or item quality's: I have 2 blaster that deal 5 damage each, I roll my attack with corresponding dice which nets me 1 success and 6 advantage, I hit main target for 6 damage with primary weapon, then spend 2 advantage activate two weapon combat which then activate Spitfire. spend 1 advantage to use Spitfire which allows me to target another enemy with secondary for 6 damage also. The other advantage is used for whatever else either before or after or during the combat.

Spitfire is a Passive talent. That means that no expenditure is necessary to trigger it. The only expenditure is the 2 Advantage to hit with your second weapon.

The talent is moderately powerful, but the addition of Attachments, specialty weapons, and other talents make it much, much more powerful.

As far as Nemeses go, it is left ambiguous somewhat, but it seems to allow you to bypass Adversary, as long as you get the 2 Advantage to trigger your second hit. If your GM isn't comfortable with that, he could simply add a "of equal or lesser difficulty" clause to the talent, which is in-line with some other rules, such as Auto-fire.

Ok now I'm understanding and thank you for all the input.

You're welcome!

3 hours ago, Ahrimon said:

Going crazy, if you add two triggers that give your guns linked 1, you can now spend 6 advantage to generate 3 additional hits (one from two-weapon and two from linked 1) and apply them to any target in range. Including applying three on the nemesis.

Better yet, Jury Rig each gun so the cost of Linked goes down to 1 advantage each. That's 4 advantage for 4 hits.

On my set of tinkered Nova Vipers with fully modded BAMs, Custom Grips, and Hair Triggers, that's not too hard to do, with base damage 10 and 4 pierce.

My gunslinger is one happy smuggler.

5 minutes ago, StriderZessei said:

Better yet, Jury Rig each gun so the cost of Linked goes down to 1 advantage each. That's 4 advantage for 4 hits.

On my set of tinkered Nova Vipers with fully modded BAMs, Custom Grips, and Hair Triggers, that's not too hard to do, with base damage 10 and 4 pierce.

My gunslinger is one happy smuggler.

I believe that you mean 1 success and 3 advantage rather than 4 advantage.

7 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

I believe that you mean 1 success and 3 advantage rather than 4 advantage.

Well, yes and no.

I figured the implication that the attack must be successful goes without saying.

But it still costs 4 advantage: 2 for the second hit, 1 for each proc of Linked.

8 minutes ago, StriderZessei said:

Well, yes and no.

I figured the implication that the attack must be successful goes without saying.

But it still costs 4 advantage: 2 for the second hit, 1 for each proc of Linked.

Ah yes... my mistake.

Unless they are paired weapons and then it's only 3. Also, if the off-hand is a superior weapon then it's only 2 advantage for 4 hits. A laser sight does the same thing. A linked, laser sighted, superior, and paired off hand can get you all four hits for only 1 advantage.

I didn't bring all of these modifications and (cheese?) tweaks because they weren't pertinent to the conversation about the basic rules of Spitfire.

2 hours ago, Ahrimon said:

Unless they are paired weapons and then it's only 3. Also, if the off-hand is a superior weapon then it's only 2 advantage for 4 hits. A laser sight does the same thing. A linked, laser sighted, superior, and paired off hand can get you all four hits for only 1 advantage.

I didn't bring all of these modifications and (cheese?) tweaks because they weren't pertinent to the conversation about the basic rules of Spitfire.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, don't both weapons have to have paired?

Yes. I just glossed over the extra's on the main weapon because they factor into the roll.