You don't

Take punishers for deathrain/redline

Wouldn't you rather not have your bombers invalidated ?

4 cutlasses with AC and MK II.

4 Advanced are better to fill this 'role'.

The only unique 'ability' so to say is the 2 bomb slots ... so for 6 points you could drop 4 seismics ... + AC maybe for a bit more punch ... = 30 points

Or for 8 points you could lay a minefield of 4 proxies ... if you have enough templates.

I need to give it a try ...

You don't

Take punishers for deathrain/redline

Wouldn't you rather not have your bombers invalidated ?

4 cutlasses with AC and MK II.

4 Advanced are better to fill this 'role'.

Disagree. Angled boosts are marvelous for getting arcs on things.

True ... but ... with 3 attack, nobody would mess with munitions.

And the Punisher got plenty of space for explosives ... and plenty of droppers and launchers ... at least the model suggests so.

Munitions are on plenty of 3-attack ships - E, X, B, Khiraxz, Starviper, slaver, yt1300, yt2400, defender, firespray. Is this why nobody messes with munitions, perhaps? I'm fine with your point, as long as we reduce all of these ships down to 2-attack

The Cutlass's main strength is that it is the cheapest way to bring multiple different bombs in a list.

Say for instance one wants to bring both Conner Nets and Proton Bombs, to do so with Bombers you'll need to spend between 41 to 45 points (depending on extra munitions) while on a Punisher you need only spend 30 to 32 points for the same amount of bombs. Granted, one looses 3 health and 2 attack dice by going with the Punisher, but it is easier to squeeze into a list if all you want is a control bomb and damage bomb (or a mine and regularly dropped bomb).

Good question, I think the System slot is the key. You must run FCS and Homing missiles, that way the first time you fire you get a lock. But even that is not that great! I haven't found a list that uses the cheaper punishers, on the named guys as others have said. I have tried, but not sure how to use them.

What if the Punisher had the SLAM?

I sure wish it did? It needed something to make it a reason for being a choice over the bomber.

It's too late now. But something for the entire ship.

Title: Ordnance Targeting Computer

0 pts

Tie Punisher Only:

When attacking with a Torpedo or missile weapon add and extra +1 hit result to the result rolled.

That would have made it really worth while, but only via ordnance.

It's too late now. But something for the entire ship.

Title: Ordnance Targeting Computer

0 pts

Tie Punisher Only:

When attacking with a Torpedo or missile weapon add and extra +1 hit result to the result rolled.

That would have made it really worth while, but only via ordnance.

'Ordnance Salvo Fire Mode' ^^

What about a special mod you can get that requires the extra munitions card, or at least 2 of same.

If you have this AND a token covering it, attack twice, or add such and such to the roll?

What about a missile type for Punishers (and k-wings) only, capable of attacking multiple targets ... like 'Homing Cluster Missiles'

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Homing_cluster_missile

What you mean like Assault Missiles?

No splash ... more like ... Homing Cluster Missiles

...

The real munitions fix is in wave 8 imo - s-thread tracers. That'll allow your high ps ship to tag the target for its squadron to drop the hammer, having taken a focus each to make better use of those expensive toys. I cannot wait to run it on Jonus+bomber squadron. the alpha strike will be epic

Cutlass + Accuracy Corrector + Conner Net + EM

30 pts

I think this ship is quite worthwhile as a bolster to a jousting list. AccC makes it joust well, and Conner Net lets it take out High PS arc dodgers, where jousting lists tend to fall short.

I think throwing Accuracy Corrector on these ships DOES make them worthwhile.

I don't know. I have always been convinced this is the best fix for ordnance. Our store uses it all the time now.

This requires no changes for any cards and is a simple fix.

I don't know. I have always been convinced this is the best fix for ordnance. Our store uses it all the time now.

This requires no changes for any cards and is a simple fix.

Bonus for Target Selection:

Torpedoes = Add +1 automatic hits to your attack dice versus large or huge targets only,

Missiles = Add +1 Automatic hit to your attack dice versus small targets

These bonus dice cannot be modified in anyway.

Wow... How about adding a dice in each case, instead of a hit?

We have play tested it for about 6 months now. An auto hit works best. It makes ordnance worth it's price. We tried an extra dice, but you still have no way to modify it. We also tried adding a critical hit instead of a normal hit for both, it works, and actually makes them even better, but some in our group thought it was too much!

Torps and Missiles ships get their due!

Plus it adds a bit of strategy, those small ship fear missiles and those big ships fear torps. Flavor I call it.

Best fix for ordnance is redline

Now go get him on the table and have a blast

True, but that is one ship and ability. I looking for something that helps all torps and missiles.

Well actually, while pt wise the bomber is much better as a missile platform, the punisher is a MUCH better bomber. You just have to think about how bombs work.

First off two bomb slots. "Why would I need to carry 4 bombs? It probably won't survive 4 turns" and no it probably wont, but 4 mines? yes.
Consider "Experimental Interface", it allows you to drop cluster mines and prox mine at the same time as they are two different actions. That's up to 9 unblockable dice of damage in one hit.
With this the Generic Cutless can with resonable success, insta kill something like soontir fel before he even has chance to move. He just needs to make one mistake, leave himself in turning range of you and he's dead. If you take advanced sensors as well he can't even safely be behind you.
EDIT: This is wrong, you can't drop both mines, but you can still use a boost then drop the mines. Very useful.

Why not use deathrain for this? Well yes deathrain give you much better range on the kill and most of the time you would. But 5 pts can go a long way in the rest of your list and with planning a cutless should be enough + deathrain HAS to take Enhanced Scopes to mine with great success. Otherwise all the mid skill pilots can move before you bomb them. So he effectivly costs 6 more points and has no option for advanced sensors.

So both are valid arc dodger slayers, depends how many points you can spare.

But because of a lack of systems slot and only one bombslot, the tie bomber cannot do this anywhere near as well.


Now lets consider the other kind of bomb, the timed aoe bombs that are far better with a high pilot skill. In this reguard deathrain is supreme. Especially when using advanced sensors, he can respond to the movements of low skill swarms, boost towards them, then drop his bomb, then barrel roll THEN move. However again, for less points a Black 8 pilot can still do much of the same stuff to low skill rebal and tie groups, but this time it's only a 3 pt advantage. Redline however is still a valid choice for such a bomber simply because of high skill.

All are valid.

But because of the lack of systems slot and the lack of boost, the tie bomber cannot drop this kind of bomb as well either.


Another point is that some have pointed out that the punisher would be much better with 3 dice primary. Well it's is relitively easy to get enough missiles on the punisher that it might as well. Expecially if you take fire control system. Even fletchette torps would function well for this.

So at this stage what system upgrades haven't we tried?
Accuracy corrector: Well on a generic mine build we could take this instead of advanced sensors to allow us to concentrat our actions on manuvering and bombing while still doing decent damage with the primary.
Sensor Jammer: Expensive but HUGE boost to defences. Especially on a meaty ship like the punisher.

So yeah, out of all ships this is the only one who has a fantastic use for EVERY systems upgrade. (except the tie advanced one). So yeah, that systems upgrade is worth the points difference.

First off two bomb slots. "Why would I need to carry 4 bombs? It probably won't survive 4 turns" and no it probably wont, but 4 mines? yes.

Consider "Experimental Interface", it allows you to drop cluster mines and prox mine at the same time as they are two different actions. That's up to 9 unblockable dice of damage in one hit.

With this the Generic Cutless can with resonable success, insta kill something like soontir fel before he even has chance to move. He just needs to make one mistake, leave himself in turning range of you and he's dead. If you take advanced sensors as well he can't even safely be behind you.

In the new book it says just 1 bomb per turn now, so no fun on that now

First off two bomb slots. "Why would I need to carry 4 bombs? It probably won't survive 4 turns" and no it probably wont, but 4 mines? yes.

Consider "Experimental Interface", it allows you to drop cluster mines and prox mine at the same time as they are two different actions. That's up to 9 unblockable dice of damage in one hit.

With this the Generic Cutless can with resonable success, insta kill something like soontir fel before he even has chance to move. He just needs to make one mistake, leave himself in turning range of you and he's dead. If you take advanced sensors as well he can't even safely be behind you.

In the new book it says just 1 bomb per turn now, so no fun on that now

One bomb including mines? Does it specify. Because the old rules had that as well but only on the actual bombs.

Does the FAQ mention it?

EDIT: So it does, bumber.

FWIW, it's always been one bomb per turn. Bombs and mines are the same thing game-wise, as well, since they take up the same slot.

The real munitions fix is in wave 8 imo - s-thread tracers. That'll allow your high ps ship to tag the target for its squadron to drop the hammer, having taken a focus each to make better use of those expensive toys. I cannot wait to run it on Jonus+bomber squadron. the alpha strike will be epic

The problem with XX-23s is that they have to hit - and it's only a 3-dice attack. If you only have one and miss, your generic bombers are all stuck with a focus token and can't fire their ordnance! This isn't a problem for rebels (with Blount), but is for the Imperial Navy.

If you're going to take them, I wouldn't take just one. At one measly point each, on a squad of generic bombers you can afford to give most (all?) the generics a copy. Keep focus-shooting with s-threads until someone hits (two should be enough, but you never know), then switch to the attack ordnance!

A scimitar with XX-23 S-Thread Tracers and Extra Munitions is 19 points. That leaves you 6 points to spend on whatever combination of ordnance you want, and lets you take four of them.

If you want a single 'missile truck' or 'bomb truck', you can't beat Redline or Deathrain. They're design to be a solo unit with some fighters supporting them. If you want an ordnance squadron, bombers are better because you have the option of a fourth unit and/or Jonus.

Jonus can be a mixed bag. Obviously his ability is awesome, but since it doesn't work on him, you essentially have a choice between four bombers with missiles or three bombers with missiles and a reroll bonus. That probably works out the same, but it's not beyond the bounds of possibility for a bomber to go down in flames before it gets to fire (unlikely but possible, especially if you need your action to target lock), and rerolls or not, if you've only got 2 guys with attack missiles you're starting to run short of firepower.