I might even offer extra dark side pips once in a while to truly tempt players with power for doing bad things! Like, say a PC is tossing an object at one of a group of storm troopers, and they generate one light and two dark pips. I might offer to double the dark side pips to 4 in exchange for the character taking 4 conflict so they can take out all the storm troopers by activating Magnitude (even if they don't have it unlocked yet)! That's how you get them to fall, mwuhaha!

Pure evil...love it!!! Although you do take 20 conflict!

Yeah, that means it is basically impossible to be redeemed. I mean, I guess you could swear off using the Force for a long time, but Vader didn't do that and he still flipped back to the light side. Kinda of a cruddy mechanic if you ask me. It does make what Yoda said true, for sure, but I always assumed he was just being dramatic to keep Luke from going dark.

It would certainly be up to an individual GM, but I would make an exception for a Dark Side character that unselfishly gave his or her own life to protect someone they loved. That would be worth immediate redemption, as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah, that means it is basically impossible to be redeemed. I mean, I guess you could swear off using the Force for a long time, but Vader didn't do that and he still flipped back to the light side. Kinda of a cruddy mechanic if you ask me. It does make what Yoda said true, for sure, but I always assumed he was just being dramatic to keep Luke from going dark.

It would certainly be up to an individual GM, but I would make an exception for a Dark Side character that unselfishly gave his or her own life to protect someone they loved. That would be worth immediate redemption, as far as I'm concerned.

I'm reminded of a line for the Order of the Stick web-comic.

"Redemption isn't for everybody."

I think the current mechanics accurately reflect that coming back from the dark side should not be an easy thing to do. Under the current mechanics, you do pretty much have to be a paladin in order to get your Morality up over 70 once you've gone dark side.

I think one of the (many) problems with the old EU was that in the early going, several writers thought that coming back from the dark side was about as easy as crossing a street.

That being said, if the player and the GM can come up with a compelling narrative and a suitably heroic sacrifice, then I say go for letting the repenetant dark sider be redeemed. But do recall that there should be a notable sacrifice; it doesn't have to be one's life as was the case for Vader, but the ex-dark sider shouldn't come out of completely unscathed, whether physically, emotionally, or mentally.

I agree that the redemption mechanics feel pretty good. It's a slog, it's really hard work, and it's very easy to undo a lot of that work with a little bit of backsliding.

Now, with the self sacrifice express lane, I agree we need a sliding scale of what level of sacrifice is required to get you back on morally solid ground. Darth Vader had been too far gone for too long to make it out of that without what amounts to ritual suicide, and it couldn't have been just to save Luke and Leia, but the whole rebellion and everyone currently living under the literal and figurative boots of the Empire. If Luke had been, say... about to get hit by a run away speeder and Vader pushed him out of the way only to get clobbered, I don't think that is heroic enough to warrant being able to come back from all the things he did during his fall.

If Luke had been, say... about to get hit by a run away speeder and Vader pushed him out of the way only to get clobbered, I don't think that is heroic enough to warrant being able to come back from all the things he did during his fall.

This would be the least cinematic ending.

I haven't played enough to be sure, but I think I'd tweak the destiny point before I took away strain. Strain makes sense - you're drawing on powers you're unfamiliar with and making a mental compromise that goes against your nature. It's distracting and difficult to do that and still focus on the task at hand. Granted, it's more of a failing on the GM's part if there isn't a destiny point to flip, but it would be frustrating to have my choice to draw on the dark side hinge on something like that.

I think fulfilling the prophecy and bringing balance to the force might have done it?

If Luke had been, say... about to get hit by a run away speeder and Vader pushed him out of the way only to get clobbered, I don't think that is heroic enough to warrant being able to come back from all the things he did during his fall.

This would be the least cinematic ending.

I haven't played enough to be sure, but I think I'd tweak the destiny point before I took away strain. Strain makes sense - you're drawing on powers you're unfamiliar with and making a mental compromise that goes against your nature. It's distracting and difficult to do that and still focus on the task at hand. Granted, it's more of a failing on the GM's part if there isn't a destiny point to flip, but it would be frustrating to have my choice to draw on the dark side hinge on something like that.

Thanks for your input on the original topic, Archebius! I do kind of like seeing where this conversation wound up, as no good story about a fall is complete until redemption is at least discussed, and you are right about the destiny point availability. I have been very pleased with the destiny point system thus far, though doing most of my gaming these days online I want a little tool that would make my life a bit easier to have a virtual communal destiny pool. I've looked into things like Roll20 and the google hangouts, but both of those are WAY overkill for just wanting a tiny little thing that shows the destiny pool and lets people "click to flip," though part of me wants to try a one shot game on google hangouts so I can have it recorded to youtube where I can then go all artsy-craftsy on it.

I can also see where you are coming from with the strain for it being an unfamiliar power source. That is certainly an idea I need to think about for a while, but I do love always having more food for thought.