but dracionan implies they have an authority over you that they simply do not

True, the term is only properly used when in reference to laws or authorities. It is not used correctly when referring to a optional, luxury, hobby/toy.

Ah come on now... It is really a dramatic word and how often does one have a chance to use it; appropriately or otherwise.

However it is said, many, though not all I'm sure, wish FFG would package their upgrades differently. Of course no one is obliged to purchase anything we don't wish to. Also we can proxy cards and to be sure some will. Neither address the prior fact no matter how overly dramatically it was presented and offering the single upgrade card in the T-70 and TIE F/O will be disappointing to many. Of course we still hope that these cards will appear in future expansions that we are also under no obligation to purchase.

Just my two cents.

I've been playing since this game was released. I've bought multiples of every small ship, and even doubles for a few of the large ships. I bought at least two of each of the Aces packs. One each for Epic. I've played in all of one official tournament. Ever. And did terribly at it.

Why? Because I like to support a company that makes a game I find fun and enjoyable.

It's unfortunate that some individuals believe that they should be entitled to have something for nothing, or that perhaps FFG shouldn't turn a profit on product and thus be able to further develop new cool product. Darn, it's like they're draconian or something.

I might go to Oregon just to save a dozen bucks on sales tax.

One of the many reasons why Oregon is just more awesome than where you live.

Yeah. My wife hasn't even seen my newest purchases for this. Gonna be awhile before I can afford all the new stuff. I hope we get a slow down and back to 3 ships at a time with 1-2 other releases throughout the year. My wallet and my storage space can't keep up.

And the magnitude of righteous indignation on behalf of FFG because I said "draconian" is unequivocally rollicking. Moreover, the mitigation of the paucity of apprehension of words is coordinately as uproarious.

Apologists gonna apologize.

I'm a little upset that Integrated Astromech comes only once in the X-wing pack. I could have done without the Advanced Proton Torpedoes, FFG.

I'm surprised that people are bitching about the Starviper inclusion of Autothrusters. Perhaps people forgot that it came with 2? There aren't many competitive lists that need more than that, so you're pretty much covered with just one Starviper pack.

I love this game but I hope the Waves won't get any bigger because I wanna pay off my credit card before Wave 11. I think waiting for the Amazon price competition wars to breakout will work better next time- I could save about $60 if I wait a week or two after release. I am still praying for a pre-Christmas availabilty... so I can tell Santa Claus in time.

I buy 1 of each expansion and then beef up my Scum fleet as needed but I realize that other players/collectors have different buying needs so...

How much will Wave8 cost you?

Yeah $200 for what you want in a wave, which we get about twice a year, is still less than what other games cost every 3 months to stay current.

$200 messily little bucks for all dat glory... I call that a bargain!

Exactly....just look at those sweet pre-painted and pre-assembled little ships of goodness!

Stop comparing X-Wing to other miniatures or card games like it's some sort of holy reference to why you should shut up and blow your wad on plastic toys. That's a completely useless rationale.

They ARE getting more expensive, and they ARE not cheap for what you are receiving, in reality, regardless of how much you overpaid for other stupid toys. And it's ironic that the picture of Jar Jar getting decked is suggesting that you need to stop complaining and blindly dish out money for more of it IN ORDER TO GET A LIFE. How backwards can it get?

I am also going to discontinue my "1-of-everything+" mentality now that we've reached this point. I'm skipping the Imperial stuff in Wave 8 and grabbing the Scum and maybe the Ghost. Maybe in the future I'll consider buying them, but if you need to nerd out and spend your savings on 6 of every little spaceship, do you but let others do what they want.

I love this game, and armada, so I suppose you could file me under fanboy, and I buy all the toys, because I want them all. Having said that, there is a valid argument to be made for issues like the tie advanced fix.

You should not have to buy the raider to fix the advance you purchased previously. I agree. now, I would add that they put four of the cards in there, which should make it a lot easier to get them on the secondary market.

One thing that I see a lot is that whenever there is a negative opinion of something FFG has done, there are a number of people who immediately pile on that poster and flame them, to one degree or another.

It's "FFG is awesome, or else" for the most part, and I don't think that is a good thing for the community. let's have a little more respect for each other.

I love the toys, and yes, I think FFG is pretty awesome overall. the release schedule has gotten a little crazy, and I think that those who complain about buying an epic ship that they don't want raise a valid point. We are all entitled to have an opinion, and I dislike the thought police attitude of this forum at times. If we cannot have a free exchange of ideas, what is the point of a forum in the first place?

that is all.

I love this game, and armada, so I suppose you could file me under fanboy, and I buy all the toys, because I want them all. Having said that, there is a valid argument to be made for issues like the tie advanced fix.

You should not have to buy the raider to fix the advance you purchased previously. I agree. now, I would add that they put four of the cards in there, which should make it a lot easier to get them on the secondary market.

One thing that I see a lot is that whenever there is a negative opinion of something FFG has done, there are a number of people who immediately pile on that poster and flame them, to one degree or another.

It's "FFG is awesome, or else" for the most part, and I don't think that is a good thing for the community. let's have a little more respect for each other.

I love the toys, and yes, I think FFG is pretty awesome overall. the release schedule has gotten a little crazy, and I think that those who complain about buying an epic ship that they don't want raise a valid point. We are all entitled to have an opinion, and I dislike the thought police attitude of this forum at times. If we cannot have a free exchange of ideas, what is the point of a forum in the first place?

that is all.

Aptly and perfectly put. Thank you.

...Like I said, I buy it, and it is my disposable income. It doesn't mean I have to be blind to the draconian douchebaggery of FFG.

And welcome to the fact that FFG are a company whose sole purpose in life is to make money.

Packaging worthwhile things amongst things that you wouldn't normally buy isn't draconian (despite your definition); it is, however, extremely good marketing.

I used to laugh at comments like this over on whineseer when people used to moan at how GW were forcing them to part with their cash, I've run out of chuckles.

Nobody is forcing anyone to buy little plastic spaceships.

Cheers

Baaa

Stop comparing X-Wing to other miniatures or card games...

Yes, because clearly comparing apples to apples is just silly and completely uncalled for!!!

They ARE getting more expensive

The price of expansions has by and large not changed since the first X-Wing expansion. Waves still cost the same based on what you're getting. Yes there's $20 expansions now, but those ships are a good bit larger, and have nearly twice as much cardboard in them.

Take Wave 8 for example... All the small ships still cost $15, other then the Misthunter, which like the K-Wing or Starviper is quite a bit larger then a standard model. The Ghost will be more expensive, but it's nearly the size of a Epic ship, so that's also understandable.

So no, they are not getting more expensive. They are simply adding in some new ships that are quite a bit larger and naturally cost more.

and they ARE not cheap for what you are receiving

And you base that on just what exactly? The cost of a micromachine or a hotwheels? Perhaps you're comparing it to the cost of the raw materials?

I mean if we can't compare the cost of X-Wing to other games, then exactly what are you drawing your comparison to? Because what you said is a completely relative statement, and that means it has to be in comparison to something else.

Stop comparing X-Wing to other miniatures or card games...

Yes, because clearly comparing apples to apples is just silly and completely uncalled for!!!

They ARE getting more expensive

The price of expansions has by and large not changed since the first X-Wing expansion. Waves still cost the same based on what you're getting. Yes there's $20 expansions now, but those ships are a good bit larger, and have nearly twice as much cardboard in them.

Take Wave 8 for example... All the small ships still cost $15, other then the Misthunter, which like the K-Wing or Starviper is quite a bit larger then a standard model. The Ghost will be more expensive, but it's nearly the size of a Epic ship, so that's also understandable.

So no, they are not getting more expensive. They are simply adding in some new ships that are quite a bit larger and naturally cost more.

and they ARE not cheap for what you are receiving

And you base that on just what exactly? The cost of a micromachine or a hotwheels? Perhaps you're comparing it to the cost of the raw materials?

I mean if we can't compare the cost of X-Wing to other games, then exactly what are you drawing your comparison to? Because what you said is a completely relative statement, and that means it has to be in comparison to something else.

I'm talking about the raw materials. A hunk of colored plastic, some cardboard, and some more cardboard. Or, comparing it to other forms of enduring entertainment, like a video game, movie, or book. To me, it's to the point where it's like a video game series trying to squeeze way too much out of a single franchise. If it were more spread out, it wouldn't raise concerns of becoming stale or being a pure money grab.

And comparing it to other games is stupid because not everyone cares about, or has played, other minis games. Just because a large frappucino costs like $6 from Starbucks doesn't mean that I should buy X-Wings instead because clearly you get more enjoyment out of the ship than the drink in the long-run. Likewise, just because another miniature game from another developer for another fan base (It's not apples to apples at ALL) costs more than this one, I should buy this one. Apples to apples is comparing previous waves to this upcoming wave, and the frequency of releases. In which case, it's way more, way more often right now.

Has everyone forgotten about the shipping labour strike already? The pace of releases this year isn't quite FFG's fault either; the Raider was originally supposed to be Q4 2014 wasn't it?

I'm talking about the raw materials. A hunk of colored plastic, some cardboard, and some more cardboard.

Yeah! I feel the same way about computers. Hundreds of pounds for some plastic and scrap metal and cheap wire and sand. What a ripoff!

Ah forums....where everyone seems to want to know everyone else's opinion, and then try with their's to prove how your's is wrong. Clap...clap...clap...

I'm talking about the raw materials. A hunk of colored plastic, some cardboard, and some more cardboard.

Yeah! I feel the same way about computers. Hundreds of pounds for some plastic and scrap metal and cheap wire and sand. What a ripoff!

Computers allow for an insane amount of usage and benefits for the money, whereas a plastic toy you can push around a table or set on your mantlepiece. But fine, if you're gonna be like that, forget the material cost factor altogether.

I'm talking about the raw materials. A hunk of colored plastic, some cardboard, and some more cardboard.

Yeah! I feel the same way about computers. Hundreds of pounds for some plastic and scrap metal and cheap wire and sand. What a ripoff!

And the worst part is, it's not even pure sand! There might be lots of consumers out there who don't want to buy any boron or germanium with their computer, but Intel's model forces people to buy metals they don't want in order to get the silicon they need to stay competitive.

Or something.

So compared to staying current in say the largest CCG which means buying at least 3-4 boxes of boosters at around $100 a box, if you find a good price, every 3 months. That equals out to almost $1.2k a year. Or you can go the route of buying singles of just what you need which will be around $600-800 a year for standard. For nothing but a handful of pieces of paper. That in a year won't be standard legal so you need to hope they are worth something in modern. If not the cards will tank in price.

Now if you are dropping around $250-$300 per wave of X-Wing. That equals to about $500-$600 a year. Even picking up the epic ships for upgrades lets add another $100. So we are currently $250 less than the CCG. Yes we get pieces of plastic, cardboard, and paper. But we get all 3 and they are not random so I know exactly what I am getting. The models are painted and assembled ready to go. I know when I buy it that once open it will be worth about 1/2 what I paid due to it being used. I don't ever have to worry about that X-Wing being illegal to use due to it no longer being in standard. So yeah it is cheaper. Granted only by a few hundered dollars , but cheaper. Also you don't have to worry about thing becoming illegal to use after a while or the value of a ship tanking due to it not being worth a crap in the format it's currently only legal in.

Prices are compared using purchases online where you will pay well below retail for both games.

I am not knocking the other games. I have just played the CCGs, the WHFB and WH40K, and other games. Yes this is cheaper on me, and hell I buy the max amount of each ship that can be fielded together......I mean I own 6 HWKs....and that is saying something.

Apples to apples is comparing previous waves to this upcoming wave, and the frequency of releases. In which case, it's way more, way more often right now.

Ok, lets actually do that...

So far, they have averaged 2 waves per year. 1 wave in 2012, and 2 every year since.

Of those waves, 2014 was the most expensive, 6 ships averaging $21.6 per ship.

2013 released 2 waves with 8 ships and averaged 20.65 per ship

2015 released 2 waves with 9 ships and averaged 20 per ship.

Both the Imperial and Rebel aces, and two Epic ships came out in 2014. Making it the most expensive year.

2014 comes in at $340 to buy each of the 10 packages that came out.

2015 comes in at $320 to buy each of the 10 packages that came out

2013 comes in at $165 to buy each of the 8 packages that came out

and 2012 a mere $100 to buy each of the 5 packages that came out.

So completely apples to apples here... You are still wrong. There's fewer packages that came out in 2015 then 2014, and they cost on avg less.

Oh and they have stated that Wave 8 and the Gozanti will not be out this year.

Edit: I forgot the TFA core set and updated the numbers accordingly.

Oh and they have stated that Wave 8 and the Gozanti will not be out this year.

Where? I thought they were still aiming for Q4 2015 release.

Where? I thought they were still aiming for Q4 2015 release.

At GenCon for one. Chris said he'd like to, but it sounded pretty clear that wasn't going to happen. Also the X-Wing wiki has them listed for Q1 2016.

To be clear... Even if Wave 8 came out yet this year. Then yes there would be more product then other years. And how horrible would it be to have more toys released this year?

But the avg cost would stay about the same, you'd have 17 packages but at an avg cost of 30.88 per, vs 2014 which had an avg cost of $34 per package. So while there would be more product, the avg cost would actually be lower.

I don't think anyone can reasonably accuse FFG of profit-mongering when they release more product at a lower avg cost per unit...

Apples to apples is comparing previous waves to this upcoming wave, and the frequency of releases. In which case, it's way more, way more often right now.

Ok, lets actually do that...

So far, they have averaged 2 waves per year. 1 wave in 2012, and 2 every year since.

Of those waves, 2014 was the most expensive, 6 ships averaging $21.6 per ship.

2013 released 2 waves with 8 ships and averaged 20.65 per ship

2015 released 2 waves with 9 ships and averaged 20 per ship.

Both the Imperial and Rebel aces, and two Epic ships came out in 2014. Making it the most expensive year.

2014 comes in at $340 to buy each of the 10 packages that came out.

2015 comes in at $320 to buy each of the 10 packages that came out

2013 comes in at $165 to buy each of the 8 packages that came out

and 2012 a mere $100 to buy each of the 5 packages that came out.

So completely apples to apples here... You are still wrong. There's fewer packages that came out in 2015 then 2014, and they cost on avg less.

Oh and they have stated that Wave 8 and the Gozanti will not be out this year.

Edit: I forgot the TFA core set and updated the numbers accordingly.

Not only did you forget the core set, but your math is also wrong by $20 if you're going by MSRP.

And more importantly, you're ignoring the fact that they are still claiming that Wave 8 will be released before 2016.

EDIT: I'm only going by what their official page says. And the fact that it would be wise due to the movie's release date.

Try adding $215 to the 2015 count, assuming they get the stuff out before the calendar turns. $535. And $875 in the past 2 years compared to $265 in 2012 and 2013 combined. Either way, the trend is upward. The average cost per ship is irrelevant, since we're talking about keeping up with the Joneses in terms of buying everything.

Okay time for some numbers!!

Let's say the average price price to buy one of every ship in a wave tends to be about $40-$80 (USD) depending on where you buy from, and how many large and medium ships are in the wave. (Wave 7 being around $80 on MM) When you buy every ship in a wave you know that you will get each upgrade in every ship pack. Now lets say that only 1 or 2 ships outside your "main faction," have an upgrade you would like to own. You can buy the ship for $10-15 unless of course were talking about an epic ship then you can search on E-bay and buy said upgrade for an average of $5-$10. Making your average wave buy around $30-$40 if you not buying multiples off the bat.

Lets look at the average price of a MTG booster box which is about $100 + or - $10 depending on where you buy it. A Booster Case goes for about $650. Even in buying these you are not promised to pull all the "money cards" in play sets, or even enough value in Rares to earn your money back. Also the average play set for "money cards" can vary between $20-$80+ depending on what the value of the card has been deemed for that particular season of standard play.

Now lets look at the top competing Miniatures games. GW's Warhammer 40,000 and Warmachine/Hordes. The price for a squad of 10 space marines is $40 ($35 is bout the average discounted price), and most players will buy at least 2 of these that bring you to $80! ($70 at disco) Which is already the price of one of every ship in a wave. That's not accounting for the average play size of a game of WH40K is 1500-2000 points with two Marine squads you've barely scratched the surface. Further buys will be tanks ($37-75$ each), elite units ($45-$78 each), and even character/HQ units ($25). Now Warmachine isn't far behind GW in cost the single faction starter being $50 ($38 on MM), Warjacks ranging $18-$51, single models $10- $20, and troop units being $40-$80.

So when you look at the numbers compared to other games in the table top hobby even with buying one of every ship and the occasional Epic ship X-wing is still CHEAP!!! The fact that I can buy a full wave for the cost of TWO space marine kits is insane!!

Again... What other games cost is irrelevant if you don't give a f*** about those games, like me. Money is money. Hundreds of dollars are hundreds of dollars. This is like saying "a yacht costs like 4 million dollars, so just buy spaceships." I don't care what a yacht costs, I just care about how much money I'm ACTUALLY spending, not how much I'm saving by not buying a g-d yacht.

Then the simple solution to your problem is stop buying them? If you don't like the cost of the hobby then get out of it. That's like someone who plays an instrument, and complains about the cost of upkeep and supplies. ALL hobbies are money pits! That's what they do cost us money in order to let us enjoy life a little more or socialize. Find something that better fits your budget. Complaining about the price of ships isn't going to compel FFG to change the price of it. So either deal with it or move on.