I only have one problem with this argument: X-wing is wargame-lite and has attracted many Star Wars fans who may not have played a mini game before in their life (like me, my girlfriend, my friends). These people may be feeling a little upset that the standalone expansion they bought is practically useless in their FLGS environment without multiple other purchases.

This is pretty much it. Most of you fail to consider the entire gaming base and continue to compare it to other hardcore, expensive hobbies when in fact, FFG created something that is far more mass-appealing and of course a bit more affordable of a hobby. That is why people like Rapscallion and myself, and hundreds of others, wish a few things were different, and can see where those things could be different, instead of blindly fanboy-ing over every new toy FFG makes and pointing at other hobbies to somehow justify the reasonableness of this one.

Nobody has demanded a refund from FFG as far as I can see, so stop dramatizing the complaints. Pretty much all that's been stated is that there's been a ton of new releases recently, and the trend does seem to be more money required along with more releases in order to keep up, and some of us more casual or competitive-lite players with less expendable income hope that it slows down a bit and the game's integrity does not become compromised through oversaturation or anything.

How cute, Americans complaining about FFG's prices.

Even they are BY FAR the cheapest out of anywhere in the world that i'm aware of.

Always makes me smile

Ours in the UK have a weird system whereby it's usually a 1:1 conversion rate from $ to £, even though the $ is far weaker.

Australia and that part of the world get it even worse.

Europe also costs far more than the US, as does Canada going by the Canadians i know.

Sympathy will always be thin i'm afraid.

To be fair, Australia does that to themselves. They have a huge import tax

I only have one problem with this argument: X-wing is wargame-lite and has attracted many Star Wars fans who may not have played a mini game before in their life (like me, my girlfriend, my friends). These people may be feeling a little upset that the standalone expansion they bought is practically useless in their FLGS environment without multiple other purchases.

This is pretty much it. Most of you fail to consider the entire gaming base and continue to compare it to other hardcore, expensive hobbies when in fact, FFG created something that is far more mass-appealing and of course a bit more affordable of a hobby. That is why people like Rapscallion and myself, and hundreds of others, wish a few things were different, and can see where those things could be different, instead of blindly fanboy-ing over every new toy FFG makes and pointing at other hobbies to somehow justify the reasonableness of this one.

Nobody has demanded a refund from FFG as far as I can see, so stop dramatizing the complaints. Pretty much all that's been stated is that there's been a ton of new releases recently, and the trend does seem to be more money required along with more releases in order to keep up, and some of us more casual or competitive-lite players with less expendable income hope that it slows down a bit and the game's integrity does not become compromised through oversaturation or anything.

Fair enough, but on the other side people calling FFG draconian for forcing them to pay full retail price for one card are just as bad. There are plenty of options to pay far reduced prices and get single cards on the secondary market. You don't have to buy a StarViper for autothrusters, you never did. Just go buy autothrusters.

I sympathize for hobbiests who just want to play with their friends and the releases are getting overwhelming, but anything you do competitively is expensive to be at the high end. I mean, who cares about a few ship packs when you have to buy plane tickets to go to events?

Yeah, not sure I'll ever be flying to nationals or anything, but the local tourneys are still great fun to compete and learn and grow. So it's really just a bummer for those of us who wanted to be completionists and explore all the build options possible with all ships and upgrades, which is half the fun. But you won't see me throwing the word draconian around the plastic ship forums either

it doesn't help when anyone questioning the issue is jumped on by the other forum members who start shouting ENTITLED! ENTITLED!

The entitlement of some people is hilarious.

I only have one problem with this argument: X-wing is wargame-lite and has attracted many Star Wars fans who may not have played a mini game before in their life (like me, my girlfriend, my friends). These people may be feeling a little upset that the standalone expansion they bought is practically useless in their FLGS environment without multiple other purchases.

This is pretty much it. Most of you fail to consider the entire gaming base and continue to compare it to other hardcore, expensive hobbies when in fact, FFG created something that is far more mass-appealing and of course a bit more affordable of a hobby. That is why people like Rapscallion and myself, and hundreds of others, wish a few things were different, and can see where those things could be different, instead of blindly fanboy-ing over every new toy FFG makes and pointing at other hobbies to somehow justify the reasonableness of this one.

Yes but what you fail to realize it that a hobby that has been around for close to 40+ years isn't going to change it's ways just to cater to casual or new players. FFG still has to compete with other game companies, and they have to base their production on that of the standard of their competitors. Games Workshop, Mantic Games, Privateer Press, Wizards of The Coast, and Wyrd games are all major competitors who produce excellent product. They all make their money by same item or multi item repeat sales. Games Workshop is well known for it's model quality with Mantic and PP quickly catching up. FFG produces the models, has them painted, and sells them at an extremely low price (your typical single unpainted high quality miniature goes for about $20) so they have to make the extra money some where. This comes in the strategy of placing the different upgrade options in different ships. Yes it is a ploy of sorts, but that's marketing 101. What will make you more money a Rebel players buying 3 rebel ships +1 Scum Ship or the Rebel player just buying the 3 ships?

One of the biggest draws of this game from a hardcore gamer's prospective is the competitive play, and how they support it and try to make it balanced. So you have to remember the core customer is the hardcore gamer. I honestly don't think that they ever intended on pulling the casual gaming crowd into the game at they level they have. It almost felt as if the core set was the casual gamer's buy with the idea of adding a tie or two with another X-wing or two. Maybe a ship here and there much like board game expansions. I don't think FFG was ready for the level that X-wing has grown to in such a short period of time. I mean were what 3 years into the games life span and it already rivals Warhammer 40,000 as the top played miniatures game! That's huge because WH40K has sat the throne for 20+ years or so!

Questioning a marketing discussion based solely on the cry "I can't afford it" on a luxury item, is the purest of forms of entitlement. So keep rolling those eyes, might get you some money one day so that you can actually play with little toy ships. Thing a lot of people don't realize is they aren't going to do card packs, so the only way a lot of this stuff will come out is in new ship releases. Some say "Release it with that ship! Give an expansion to the same ship!" Really? I don't need more then the 7 interceptors I have and honestly there are other ships that need loving before ones that already have gotten some. I actually like that picking up 2 starvipers gives me the AT for what ever 100 point games I want. Plus now I have 2 ships for the scum side to play.

1 of each Wave 8 ship, with a second TIE/fo and an Assault Carrier comes to $150. That's not too bad, and I'll have a few months to save for it.

If you play Imperial, you wanted one anyway. A fix for the Advanced was a bonus gift.

Speak for yourself. I play Imperial and have zero interest in owning a Raider. But desperately wanted the Advanced fixes that it came with.

Questioning a marketing discussion based solely on the cry "I can't afford it" on a luxury item, is the purest of forms of entitlement. So keep rolling those eyes, might get you some money one day so that you can actually play with little toy ships. Thing a lot of people don't realize is they aren't going to do card packs, so the only way a lot of this stuff will come out is in new ship releases. Some say "Release it with that ship! Give an expansion to the same ship!" Really? I don't need more then the 7 interceptors I have and honestly there are other ships that need loving before ones that already have gotten some. I actually like that picking up 2 starvipers gives me the AT for what ever 100 point games I want. Plus now I have 2 ships for the scum side to play.

ENTITLED! ENTITLED! HOW DARE YOU QUESTION OUR BENEVOLENT FFG OVERLORDS!

Are you for real?

I always get two of each, unless it's something I don't need doubles of (decimator, yt2400, epics) or something I want a lot of (a wings 4, z95 5, rebel aces 4.

I think I'll get two of everything from wave eight except the ghost and the jump master. And that could change once the card lists are released.

I think this thread has progressed to the point where we bury it talking about what we had for breakfast.

Who's first?

I skikpped breakfast today. Had some bacon sandwiches for lunch though.

My mom drove down from Vancouver and we had brunch at Milo's City Cafe... best eggs benedict in the universe.

I got up at noon so I started with lunch.

And buying ships you don't want for cards you need still sucks.

I only have one problem with this argument: X-wing is wargame-lite and has attracted many Star Wars fans who may not have played a mini game before in their life (like me, my girlfriend, my friends). These people may be feeling a little upset that the standalone expansion they bought is practically useless in their FLGS environment without multiple other purchases.

This is pretty much it. Most of you fail to consider the entire gaming base and continue to compare it to other hardcore, expensive hobbies when in fact, FFG created something that is far more mass-appealing and of course a bit more affordable of a hobby. That is why people like Rapscallion and myself, and hundreds of others, wish a few things were different, and can see where those things could be different, instead of blindly fanboy-ing over every new toy FFG makes and pointing at other hobbies to somehow justify the reasonableness of this one.

.... a hobby that has been around for close to 40+ years isn't going to change it's ways just to cater to casual or new players. FFG still has to compete with other game companies, and they have to base their production on that of the standard of their competitors...

... So you have to remember the core customer is the hardcore gamer. I honestly don't think that they ever intended on pulling the casual gaming crowd into the game at they level they have. It almost felt as if the core set was the casual gamer's buy with the idea of adding a tie or two with another X-wing or two. ....

I hope you don't mind me snipping these bits out.

I first saw X-wing miniatures in the board game section of my local Waterstones book shop (in the UK). My girlfriend (being the awesome gal that she is) later bought me the core set and a couple expansions for a Christmas present. This is how most people I know started playing X-wing.

Sorry, but I really must contend the notion that the core customer is the hardcore gamer. The core customers are Star Wars fans primarily. In my opinion, I would think FFG had every intention to pull the casual gaming crowd into this game. Their plan probably went better than expected!

Note: Please don't take this as a negative criticism against FFG, I have no problem with their practices so far because I can afford the additional purchases. I can, however, empathise with others who don't want to buy a Raider to fly a single TIE Advanced competitively, for example. My biggest gripe with the game is the TIE Punisher - an expansion that comes with Extra Munitions and Cluster Mines, and only one set of cluster mine tokens.

draconian

"This is not the word you're looking for."

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/draconian

2. (often lowercase) rigorous; unusually severe or cruel:

FFG forcing the purchase of 2 Star Vipers because you need Autothrusters is most certainly draconian. Forcing the purchase of a $90 Tantive IV because you need C-3PO and R2-D2 is most certainly draconian. And most recently, forcing the purchase of the $100 Raider to fix the TIE Advanced is a bend over job using sand as lube.

Like I said, I buy it, and it is my disposable income. It doesn't mean I have to be blind to the draconian douchebaggery of FFG.

Draconian is an incorrect word for what you're trying to say. "Harsh" and "cruel" don't apply to the sale of luxury items. If we were talking food or electricity here, then maybe draconian might be tenously appropriate. If we were talking law, then certainly. But plastic spaceships? Anti-consumer is the word you're after.

Also, needing the C-3PO and R2-D2 crew cards? Needing Autothrusters? If you take the path of mindless adherence to the groupthink then you'll have to follow the groupthink's spending. You only need those cards if you want to copy everyone else.