As I was perusing the book, I noticed on pg 211 there is a 'pre-fab' ship players can buy, called the Sabre. It is a modified Firestorm-class Frigate. What really intrigued me, was the fact that it has a prow mount (meaning it can, and does, take a lance battery).

I thought this would be a useful hull to include amongst player choices to build their ships.

What I couldn't tell, though, was whether the stats listed are the base for the Firestorm-class, or had been modified with the Component changes. It appears (based mainly on Maneuver, as I'll show) that what is listed is the unmodified hull stats.

Firestorm-class Frigate

Speed: 8 / Maneuverability: +20 / Detection: +13 / Armor: 18 / Void Shields: 1 / Hull Integrity: 33 / Space: 40 / Turrets: 1

Weapon Capacity: Dorsal 1, Prow 1

SP Cost: 42

Now, based on listed Components and Complications, the Sabre has: -2 Detection (Auspex), +3 Hull Integrity (bulkheads), -4 Hull Integrity (Reliquary), +10 Maneuver (Reliquary). If they were included in the above, that would mean the hull's stats are: Maneuver: +10, Detection: +15, Hull Integrity: 34.

(there's an additional +5 situational maneuver from auspex too, which pretty definitely wouldn't be included in listed stats, so I discounted it)

The +10 maneuver is pretty obviously not included in the listed total for the Sabre, since that would put the maneuver rating of the hull at only +10. The sword is +20, and Tempest is +18 ... so only a +10 seems too low. All in all, the listed stats for the Sabre seem to match extremely well to the other two Frigates' hull stats, without needing any changes from possible Components, although it is possibly only the Complications (Reliquary) were excluded from the stats.

Sabre's listed SP cost is 50, and total of Component SP costs is 8 ... making SP cost for hull 42. Which fits, as the prow mount could easily account for a 2 point SP cost increase in hull.

So, opinions are welcome, but it seems we can get a third usable Frigate hull for players to purchase with their points.

Nice i like it. It's saved and will be offered to my players

I wish they would do more hulls and make a ship book

I did the calculations on this a while ago. My results were:

Speed 7

Maneuver +20

Detection +15

Hull Integrity 34

Armor 18

Turret Rating 1

Space 40

SP 40

Weapon Capacity: Prow 1, Dorsal 1

RocketPropelledGrenade said:

What causes the reduction in Speed?

Why is it only 40 SP? By my calculations, the Components cost:

Command Bridge 1, Sunsear Battery 1, TitanForge Lance Weapon 2, Cargo hold 1, Reinf. bulkheads 2, Luxury Qtrs 1. Total = 8. Aha, I just found the answer to my question! It has a "modified Jovian Pattern Drive 2", which is the Archeotech selection (for the Reliquary complication). That costs 3 SP. Geez, that seems a bad trade-off. The archeotech drive saves you 4 space but costs 3 SP (more)? I'd think it would at least provide some additional power... anyway, that's a total of 11 SP spent on the Sabre... not 10. Odd.

Now, looking at the Reliquary Complication, it says that it gives a +10 to Maneuver tests (not tot he ship's Maneuverability) ... so I think it's plausible that it isn't included in the stats. Indeed, then we would have close to what you displayed, only with a 39 SP cost instead of 40 and 8 Speed instead of 7. (I see nothing that reduces the speed value.)

Speed 8

Maneuver +20

Detection +15

Hull Integrity 34

Armor 18

Turret Rating 1

Space 40

Weapon Capacity: Prow 1, Dorsal 1

SP 39

I was thinking of doing this last night actually, because I wanted a Frigate with a Prow spot for weapons. Great minds and all that. Good thing, too, as I'm so swamped with work that I don't have time to reverse engineer stuff, so cheers fellas...

I would probably, just for consistancy, keep the SP cost at 40 like the other 2 Frigate Hulls.

I don't have my book in front of me...

It doesn't have base stats for a FireStorm Frigate? How bout a Cobra Destroyer?

Maxim C. Gatling said:

To be honest, if it's got a Sword Frigate in the rulebook, then a Firestorm is easy, as it's essentially just a Sword with a different weapons fit (a lance instead of part of the weapons battery).

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Yeah, I'm not too worried about extrapolating the stats. But I was kind of wondering how they're going to make them different in the "Official" version and it seemed weird they would exclude the Firestorm and Cobra... For example, the big difference in BFG between the "Mars" and the "Lunar" are the weapons they mount. You could mount "Mars" weapons on a RT "Lunar" and call it a "Mars", but I'm sure there will be other subtle differences in the "official" stats when they come out.

What about the "Galaxy". I'm assuming it would have to have several "Barracks" modules standard, for it is a troop carrier after all. Which begs the question, exactly how many troops can you hold in a Barracks component? "Thousands" is kinda vague.

What about the Castellian? I'm sure that'd be a rare ship indeed and we may never see anything other than House Rules for it...fun to think about though.

Is anyone converting the BFG ships over to RT? Surely the systems can be converted.

I would like to see Eldar ships for raiding.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Well, at least as far as we can tell from the Sabre ... the Sword has a couple more points of hull integrity as well as a second turret over the Firestorm, while the Firestorm gets a prow weapon mount. But yeah, they're pretty close. I was just thinking that at least extrapolating from an official ship, we'd get a much more 'official' (or perhaps 'legitimate') hull template rather than just a purely subjective guess at stats. Any of the hulls can be tweaked by a few points to get a custom hull.

I dont have the math I used handy for my stats, just the end result. But I do recall that the considering the listed 8 Speed to include the Modified Drive, so that the Speed would be 7 by default.

Since I'm an avid Tau and Eldar player in Battlefleet Gothic I could do some conversions into RT when the time is right. I love the fact RT is more detailed on various stats. The D6 approach in BFG is quite rigid (but easy).

Tau would be quite cool to do on the whole level. As the Eastern Fringe with Kar Duniash as a base is renown for all its Rogue Trader activity.

RocketPropelledGrenade said:

Aha! Yep, once you mentioned it I was able to see that modified Archeotech drives give +1 speed. Can't believe that I missed that. Thanks.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Yeah, that's what I've decided to do to save me some work. I just took the Sword, changed one of the Dorsal mounts to a Prow mount, then added 'Long' to the class name to take into account for the ability to attach a Lance, and Bada bing, bada boom, the 'Longsword' class Frigate was born...

Good thread. I wanted a frigate that supported a lance weapon... it seemed to me odd that converted cargo haulers and raiders with weak plasma drived could mount these formidable weapons but a military escort vessel of similar size could not. About the points cost though....

40 or 42?

Here is what the lexicanum gives as fluff on the firestorm frigate:

"The firestorm class frigate is a variant of the sword class frigate. Designed to link the speed and manouvrability of an escort, with the bite of a lance. The swords systemspower its laser weapons battery have been reconfigured to power the single prow-mounted lance of the firestorm"

Problem is you cant tell from this description if the Firestorm is actually a upgrade or just a weapon battery swap.

Can any body find out if the points cost in Battleship Gothic differ... or does it matter? It has a prow mount but its efficacy becomes apparent ONLY when you purchase a lance...

From Battlefleet Gothic

Sword class frigate - 35 pts

armour 5+

speed 25cm

turrets 2

shields 1

turns 90*

armament:

weapons battery - 30cm - left / front / right - strength 4

Firestorm class frigate - 40 pts

armour 5+

speed 25cm

turrets 2

shields 1

turns 90*

armament:

weapons battery - 30cm - left / front / right - strength 2

lance - 30cm - front - strength 1

In BFG a rule of thumb is that 1 lance is worth 3 weapon batteries for quick calculations. So with that in mind you'll see that the Firestorm has 5 batteries compared to 4 of the Sword. Yet the Sword is more flexible in positioning, the Firestorm needs to close. Generally people favour the Sword. But a Dauntless with 3 lances assisted by 3 Firestorms with 3 lances is a fearsome prospect.

Ok so then the ship pointsof 42 rather than 40 for the firestorm hull is more than justified because it allows the flexibility of adding a lance and at least from the fluff perpective the possibility extra batterys to the fore. On the other hand the positioning argument is compelling... I guess the batterys to the fore would not be like the dorsals be variable movemnet and therefore lack flexibility. What It boils to then down to is two ship points worth the 'potential' of a extra powerful weapon but reduced tactical flexibility...

I think it implies that the barracks is for a regiment of troops.

The fluff Implies a regiment of troops which in 40k fluff is somewhere between 1000-3000 men (10 men in a squad, 6 squads in a platoon, 6 platoons in a company, 6 companys in a regiment, and thats not including a largely non commbat logistics company, the band, cooks munitions, transport corp and possibly a enirely seperate command HQ company). This is a least according to the Guardsman Primer sold by Black Library, though other structures vary world to world this is the more vanilla structure favored by the imperium.

Thats if you want to create a corps of troops thant has been seconded from the imperial guard. If its a mercenary force its anyones guess how its composed or how many...

From various sources (IGUP, Ciaphas Cain, MM) a "standard" IG Regiment is between 1'000 to 10'000 troops depending on arms and armour (an armoured regiment is smaller than an infantry one) with 3'000 - 4'000 being typical for an infantry regiment at founding (before losses) though extreme variations in all directions are common.

Grand Inquisitor Fulminarex said:

Actually: No, the stats for BFG do not convert well. The stats between the systems in no way line up, other then as a sort of rule of thumb for scale between ships.

I've been trying in my thread over at Dark Reign, which got bogged down in the great Torpedo debate, however, I've gotten a few done so far:

Avenger-class Grand Cruiser

Max Accel: 2g
Crew: 100k

Speed: 5
Manuver: +10
Detection: +10
Hull Int: 90
Armor: 23
Turret Rating: 3
Space: 100
Weapon Capacity: Port, 4, Starboard, 4
SP: 75

Special Rules:
Enhanced Void Shields - This ship gains +1 void shields.
Massive - Any attempt to use the Come to New Heading maneuver have the difficulty increased by 20.

Murder-Class Cruiser

Speed 7
Manuver: +10
Detection: +10
Hull Int: 65
Armor: 20
Turret Rating: 2
Space: 75
Sp 65
Weapon Capacity: Starboard 2, Port 2, Prow 1

Special Rules:
Energy Boost - +3 to Range of Plasma Weapons
Reserve Fleet Vessel - Ship gains the Haunted Complication in addition to any other Complication generated normally.