One of the major flaws with Sparks' CCGs are cheaper position is that CCG costs per players tend to be on a fairly wide bell curve and LCG costs tend to be on a much narrower bell curve which tends to push up the minimum entry cost but lowers the max cost.

Sure there are players who can buy a $25 starter and then win their way to a full 3 copy rare set at only the cost of tourney entrance fees, but those are on the extreme end of the bell curve similar to those who need to buy 10+ boosterpack boxes in order to have a full 3 copy rare set on the other end. Even if you are not paying very much to play a CCG someone else is covering the cost of your winnings with their losses.

All I'm saying is that people keep arguing the costs of LCGs being cheaper and I'm trying to show people that it doesn't have to be. People just don't put in the effort. I've been playing the Star Wars: Destiny CCG since the beginning of December. I spent money on 2 sets of starters and 2 full booster boxes. I have a full playset of everything and I've made about $100 on the game, including tourney entry fees. I admit that if you don't care about anything but playing a game, then the LCG model may be cheaper for you. If you put in the work, the CCG is cheaper. If you don't care to do the work, keep paying that monthly membership with the LCG. It's all in what you want out of the game. I choose to spend less money with the CCG than to pay more for the LCG... and keep paying every month to keep playing competitively. Also, for what exactly am I playing competitively for in a LCG? Cards that I already own?? Playmats?? TOKENS??? Yeah right. None of that interests me one bit. If I'm paying to play in a competitive tournament, I want the chance to get that money back... even if I do poorly and don't win anything, I still had the chance to win back the money. And then I put in the work to get better so that I may win back that money at the next one. Something you can NEVER do in a LCG tournament. I get that most people who argue the LCG is better, cheaper, and whatnot are mostly people who don't care about competitive play. And that is totally fine for them. I'm just offering my experiences in saying that if you love playing competitively, the CCG can be cheaper if you do the work. If you don't wanna do the work, keep paying all that money on your LCGs.

Firstly, I was under the impression that most people who went to tournaments did so because they enjoyed the competition rather than out of hope of funding their retirement.

Secondly, if the prizes are exclusive to the events, they will be worth something to someone, whether you value them or not. Actually, the fact that you don't value them should make it all the better than selling something in which you're interested.

Lastly, your arguments are sounding less and less like they're about CCGs vs LCGs, and more and more like a discussion of tournaments vs casual play vs collecting.

One of the major flaws with Sparks' CCGs are cheaper position is that CCG costs per players tend to be on a fairly wide bell curve and LCG costs tend to be on a much narrower bell curve which tends to push up the minimum entry cost but lowers the max cost.

Sure there are players who can buy a $25 starter and then win their way to a full 3 copy rare set at only the cost of tourney entrance fees, but those are on the extreme end of the bell curve similar to those who need to buy 10+ boosterpack boxes in order to have a full 3 copy rare set on the other end. Even if you are not paying very much to play a CCG someone else is covering the cost of your winnings with their losses.

All I'm saying is that people keep arguing the costs of LCGs being cheaper and I'm trying to show people that it doesn't have to be. People just don't put in the effort. I've been playing the Star Wars: Destiny CCG since the beginning of December. I spent money on 2 sets of starters and 2 full booster boxes. I have a full playset of everything and I've made about $100 on the game, including tourney entry fees. I admit that if you don't care about anything but playing a game, then the LCG model may be cheaper for you. If you put in the work, the CCG is cheaper. If you don't care to do the work, keep paying that monthly membership with the LCG. It's all in what you want out of the game. I choose to spend less money with the CCG than to pay more for the LCG... and keep paying every month to keep playing competitively. Also, for what exactly am I playing competitively for in a LCG? Cards that I already own?? Playmats?? TOKENS??? Yeah right. None of that interests me one bit. If I'm paying to play in a competitive tournament, I want the chance to get that money back... even if I do poorly and don't win anything, I still had the chance to win back the money. And then I put in the work to get better so that I may win back that money at the next one. Something you can NEVER do in a LCG tournament. I get that most people who argue the LCG is better, cheaper, and whatnot are mostly people who don't care about competitive play. And that is totally fine for them. I'm just offering my experiences in saying that if you love playing competitively, the CCG can be cheaper if you do the work. If you don't wanna do the work, keep paying all that money on your LCGs.

Firstly, I was under the impression that most people who went to tournaments did so because they enjoyed the competition rather than out of hope of funding their retirement.

Secondly, if the prizes are exclusive to the events, they will be worth something to someone, whether you value them or not. Actually, the fact that you don't value them should make it all the better than selling something in which you're interested.

Lastly, your arguments are sounding less and less like they're about CCGs vs LCGs, and more and more like a discussion of tournaments vs casual play vs collecting.

As we're now talking about tournament/casual scene, you still think that casual CCG players drop tons of $$$ for cards? I doubt. I know plenty of people who never bought fresh stuff, they just waited as arc were going to the end to buy outdated editions/blocks for pennies after next base set hit.

Same for competetive LCGs. I'm rather sure that majority of casual players just didn't give a sh*t for anything above ONE Core Set. Also I know it's really controversial source, but if you take a look at boardgamegeek.com stats, you'll notice in this hermetic geek environment, how fast, from cycle to cycle, decrease numbers of owned expansions. I mean, Ther're situations where number of registered 3rd Cycle expansions are smaller 3-4 times than 1st Cycle numbers.

Most CCG players aren't completionists and on the other hand in LCGs you'll rarely find someone who buys selected expansions (people tend to buy everything or none, or maybe same deluxues). So it's really, really hard to be sure what's is cheaper or not because it's depend on people need and expectations.

So it's really, really hard to be sure what's is cheaper or not because it's depend on people need and expectations.

Precisely. Incidentally, I speak as a casual player who was spending around $20 a week on boosters when the game was still going, so for me, I expect the LCG model to be considerably cheaper.

All I'm saying is that people keep arguing the costs of LCGs being cheaper and I'm trying to show people that it doesn't have to be. People just don't put in the effort. I've been playing the Star Wars: Destiny CCG since the beginning of December. I spent money on 2 sets of starters and 2 full booster boxes. I have a full playset of everything and I've made about $100 on the game, including tourney entry fees. I admit that if you don't care about anything but playing a game, then the LCG model may be cheaper for you. If you put in the work, the CCG is cheaper. If you don't care to do the work, keep paying that monthly membership with the LCG. It's all in what you want out of the game. I choose to spend less money with the CCG than to pay more for the LCG... and keep paying every month to keep playing competitively. Also, for what exactly am I playing competitively for in a LCG? Cards that I already own?? Playmats?? TOKENS??? Yeah right. None of that interests me one bit. If I'm paying to play in a competitive tournament, I want the chance to get that money back... even if I do poorly and don't win anything, I still had the chance to win back the money. And then I put in the work to get better so that I may win back that money at the next one. Something you can NEVER do in a LCG tournament. I get that most people who argue the LCG is better, cheaper, and whatnot are mostly people who don't care about competitive play. And that is totally fine for them. I'm just offering my experiences in saying that if you love playing competitively, the CCG can be cheaper if you do the work. If you don't wanna do the work, keep paying all that money on your LCGs.

You are aware that starting at 2 starters and a 2 Full booster set should set you back roughly $250? and that buy 2 full booster boxes of the next expansion will set you back another ~$220? What you are seriously confusing is a "cheaper game" and "a game you can make a profit on by flipping singles cards at a mark up." You are deferring the costs to others and then calling it cheaper because you made a profit after you liquidated unwanted assets and not taking into account how much it costs to get those assets.

All I'm saying is that people keep arguing the costs of LCGs being cheaper and I'm trying to show people that it doesn't have to be. People just don't put in the effort. I've been playing the Star Wars: Destiny CCG since the beginning of December. I spent money on 2 sets of starters and 2 full booster boxes. I have a full playset of everything and I've made about $100 on the game, including tourney entry fees. I admit that if you don't care about anything but playing a game, then the LCG model may be cheaper for you. If you put in the work, the CCG is cheaper. If you don't care to do the work, keep paying that monthly membership with the LCG. It's all in what you want out of the game. I choose to spend less money with the CCG than to pay more for the LCG... and keep paying every month to keep playing competitively. Also, for what exactly am I playing competitively for in a LCG? Cards that I already own?? Playmats?? TOKENS??? Yeah right. None of that interests me one bit. If I'm paying to play in a competitive tournament, I want the chance to get that money back... even if I do poorly and don't win anything, I still had the chance to win back the money. And then I put in the work to get better so that I may win back that money at the next one. Something you can NEVER do in a LCG tournament. I get that most people who argue the LCG is better, cheaper, and whatnot are mostly people who don't care about competitive play. And that is totally fine for them. I'm just offering my experiences in saying that if you love playing competitively, the CCG can be cheaper if you do the work. If you don't wanna do the work, keep paying all that money on your LCGs.

You are aware that starting at 2 starters and a 2 Full booster set should set you back roughly $250? and that buy 2 full booster boxes of the next expansion will set you back another ~$220? What you are seriously confusing is a "cheaper game" and "a game you can make a profit on by flipping singles cards at a mark up." You are deferring the costs to others and then calling it cheaper because you made a profit after you liquidated unwanted assets and not taking into account how much it costs to get those assets.

I totally took in to account how much it cost to get those assets. And a profit was made when it was all said and done. I expect the same thing to happen with the next expansion and on and on. Even if I never played in a tournament, I would still have a net profit from the CCG. And no, I don't mark up prices on the singles I sell. I sell at the current market rate. I'm not out to price gouge anyone. Some cards are worth more than others. Take the Destiny game: Mathing here... 1 booster pack costs $3.99 MSRP. Each pack comes with a rare or legendary. You can usually sell ANY rare for about $5. So if I am buying packs at MSRP, I can make $1 off of selling the rare out of it. Bonus if I get a wanted rare or even legendary out of that pack. Hell... I even have a local friend here who decided to sell off his entire rare/legendary collection, get his money back and then some, then buy more booster boxes to get his playset again... and came out ahead. And Destiny doesn't even have faction loyalty. Sure, in some cases with L5R CCG, many people would only collect cards for their clan and trade out stuff from other clans to help that collection. I can see their points being true that the CCG was cheaper than the LCG will be as well.

As to selling off tokens and playmats and alt art, I could do that. But I'm sure it would pale in comparison to what I get back from the CCG. There's just very little value to LCG cards and such. Therefore, it is more expensive for me to play.

OK, maybe it's the economist in me, but I've got to ask.

Sparks, do you consider your time to have any value? If so, are you accounting for that in the cost of CCG vs. LCG?

OK, maybe it's the economist in me, but I've got to ask.

Sparks, do you consider your time to have any value? If so, are you accounting for that in the cost of CCG vs. LCG?

I do consider my time to have value. But no, I didn't account for that in the costs. Mainly because I don't consider my hobbies as a means of income. I only try and spend as little as possible for my hobbies. As I'm sure everyone does. Trading/selling/opening packs of cards is fun for me and part of the hobby. To me, there is no fun in opening packs of LCGs. How do you even do draft format in LCGs? That is a fun format that I know a LOT of people love.

Some random thoughs:

All this defense of the CCG model vs LCG, is sounding more and more like a cult or, at best, a ponzi scheme. "You want to make money playing games, Ask me how!"

So many people barely spending money when playing L5R must be the cause the CCG model failed for AEG. You are supposed to pay for ir or it doesn't work as a business! AEG gave away so much stuff for free over the years that they devalued their own product.

All I'm saying is that people keep arguing the costs of LCGs being cheaper and I'm trying to show people that it doesn't have to be. People just don't put in the effort. I've been playing the Star Wars: Destiny CCG since the beginning of December. I spent money on 2 sets of starters and 2 full booster boxes. I have a full playset of everything and I've made about $100 on the game, including tourney entry fees. I admit that if you don't care about anything but playing a game, then the LCG model may be cheaper for you. If you put in the work, the CCG is cheaper. If you don't care to do the work, keep paying that monthly membership with the LCG. It's all in what you want out of the game. I choose to spend less money with the CCG than to pay more for the LCG... and keep paying every month to keep playing competitively. Also, for what exactly am I playing competitively for in a LCG? Cards that I already own?? Playmats?? TOKENS??? Yeah right. None of that interests me one bit. If I'm paying to play in a competitive tournament, I want the chance to get that money back... even if I do poorly and don't win anything, I still had the chance to win back the money. And then I put in the work to get better so that I may win back that money at the next one. Something you can NEVER do in a LCG tournament. I get that most people who argue the LCG is better, cheaper, and whatnot are mostly people who don't care about competitive play. And that is totally fine for them. I'm just offering my experiences in saying that if you love playing competitively, the CCG can be cheaper if you do the work. If you don't wanna do the work, keep paying all that money on your LCGs.

You are aware that starting at 2 starters and a 2 Full booster set should set you back roughly $250? and that buy 2 full booster boxes of the next expansion will set you back another ~$220? What you are seriously confusing is a "cheaper game" and "a game you can make a profit on by flipping singles cards at a mark up." You are deferring the costs to others and then calling it cheaper because you made a profit after you liquidated unwanted assets and not taking into account how much it costs to get those assets.

I totally took in to account how much it cost to get those assets. And a profit was made when it was all said and done. I expect the same thing to happen with the next expansion and on and on. Even if I never played in a tournament, I would still have a net profit from the CCG. And no, I don't mark up prices on the singles I sell. I sell at the current market rate. I'm not out to price gouge anyone. Some cards are worth more than others. Take the Destiny game: Mathing here... 1 booster pack costs $3.99 MSRP. Each pack comes with a rare or legendary. You can usually sell ANY rare for about $5. So if I am buying packs at MSRP, I can make $1 off of selling the rare out of it. Bonus if I get a wanted rare or even legendary out of that pack. Hell... I even have a local friend here who decided to sell off his entire rare/legendary collection, get his money back and then some, then buy more booster boxes to get his playset again... and came out ahead. And Destiny doesn't even have faction loyalty. Sure, in some cases with L5R CCG, many people would only collect cards for their clan and trade out stuff from other clans to help that collection. I can see their points being true that the CCG was cheaper than the LCG will be as well.

As to selling off tokens and playmats and alt art, I could do that. But I'm sure it would pale in comparison to what I get back from the CCG. There's just very little value to LCG cards and such. Therefore, it is more expensive for me to play.

I think we are getting to the key. You say you CCG are cheaper than LCG, for you. But the above shows that you aren't approaching this as a player. You do it as a retailer who also happens to play. Not the same thing at all, On CCG with a minimum success you are a middlemen and you profit from the inefficency of that distribution system, and provide a service catering for the need that system creates. However LCGs are more efficient, hands down, as a distribution system and remove the need for such a middlemen. So, yes, I'm quite willing to admit LCGs are more expensive for middlemen who also play. That doesn't mean that it is more expensive for players, period.

i just hope that the game takes off and everything turns out good like it did with lotr, netrunner and agot 2.0, not just for the game itself, but also for you to drown in your bitterness, member berries and logical fallacies in your defense of ccg model because you are ruining the wait for everyone else.

Hey, nobody's ruining the wait for me.

The whole of this debate shows people care. Everybody wants the L5R game to succeed. Some would want it to be as a CCG, but we know it's going to be a LCG. It may be a tough pill to swallow for some, but I think it's good news for the majority of players waiting for the game to be released.

I, personnally, am very happy about the new L5R being a LCG. I won't have to chase the best non-unique cards everyone needs, I'll be able to build decks from factions I don't like to playtest against them, And more importantly, it will be less expensive for me. I usually bought a full booster box from the ccg, to get part of what I wanted, and stuff to trade for the rest. But in the end of the L5R ccg era, that wasn't enough. I needed to but singles to complete some of my decks, because some cards were in so much demand compared to other that it became hard to find someone willing to trade them away (I'm looking at you, VtD !).

My personal experience is a data point for the "LCG model attracts more players" side of the argument. I first saw L5R on sale about 15 years ago, more or less. I was intrigued by the setting and thought I would probably enjoy the game -- but since it was a CCG, I knew that it could be a money sink of unknown amounts for me. And so I didn't buy any L5R stuff, no matter how often I saw it in stores and wondered what the game would be like.

Now that it's coming out as an LCG, I've allocated room in my gaming budget to buy it as soon as possible after its release.

I don't have any data on how many other players just stay away from CCGs completely because of the potentially-unbounded cost curve. But I can tell you first-hand, the LCG format will get at least one more player playing the game than the CCG format did, precisely because I can predict how much money I'm going to spend on it.

Look guys. I hope it doesn't sound like I'm trying to ruin the wait for the new game. Even though I'm not a huge fan of the LCG, I know it has its value. I only wanted to share in my thoughts as a player in the LCG vs CCG debate. Honestly, I don't think FFG is going to make a bad game. I believe they have every intention on making the game great as they have invested so much in to acquiring the game. And even though it's getting released as an LCG, doesn't make me like the game less. If the original game just became an LCG instead of being sold, I wouldn't have stopped playing it because I love the game. The distribution model of an LCG isn't the make or break point for me at all. Like I've said many times before... If the game is fun, balanced, and has great mechanics, I will be all in. The distribution model has no bearing on whether or not I buy in to the game. I'm very excited to see what FFG does with the game we all loved for so many years and I'm sure they won't disappoint.

i just hope that the game takes off and everything turns out good like it did with lotr, netrunner and agot 2.0, not just for the game itself, but also for you to drown in your bitterness, member berries and logical fallacies in your defense of ccg model because you are ruining the wait for everyone else.

Don't try and speak for everyone, man. Sparks is a genuinely good guy who has given a lot to the community and will absolutely give the LCG a chance. He's patiently (mostly) responding to questions thrown at him when he really shouldn't have to defend his preference. If you think he wants to the game to fail, you're at best delusional, but don't try and paint everyone else with the same brush.

"How do you even do draft format in LCGs? That is a fun format that I know a LOT of people love."

I've only played Thrones 2.0 draft, but it's fantastic, and really fills me with hope for a viable L5R LCG draft format.

For Thrones, you get a fixed draft starter containing fifteen cards - five Plots, 3 each of Rose Road and Kingsroad, 2 copies of House Bannerman, a Wildling Scout, and a Rattleshirt's Raider. You also get four draft-exclusive Agendas that allow you to mix factions in a variety of ways.

You then need a draft booster, which contains 50 random cards. The current draft set uses select cards from the core set, the first and second cycles in their entirety, and the first two deluxe boxes, along with some draft-only cards. Each card is assigned an artificial rarity, either C, U, or R. You open a draft booster and keep it face down, then count off the top ten cards. This forms your first 'booster', and will contain a rare, three uncommons, and six commons (or thereabouts). You draft like you do in any other game, alternating booster packs left and right. At the end of drafting, you construct your deck - your plot deck must be exactly five cards, and your draw deck a minimum of 40.

I've done half a dozen or so drafts now and have greatly enjoyed each one. I've also built up my card pool with extra copies of stuff like Nightmares, Tears of Lys, Hand's Judgment etc. that I often find myself needing for multiple decks.

You can reuse starters between drafts, but need a new booster each time you play. For fifteen buck, it might seem expensive for some, but I get an afternoon's entertainment and more cards to fill out my extra decks, so I'm happy to pay it.

i just hope that the game takes off and everything turns out good like it did with lotr, netrunner and agot 2.0, not just for the game itself, but also for you to drown in your bitterness, member berries and logical fallacies in your defense of ccg model because you are ruining the wait for everyone else.

As I mentioned, I also prefer ccg model and there are reasons to defend it. Sparks had issues claiming things as unavoidable fact when that isn't truth. Just like you claiming that he is ruining the game for everyone else. It's fine of you're allowing him to "ruin the wait" for you, but personally I wouldn't give him so much power.

Look guys. I hope it doesn't sound like I'm trying to ruin the wait for the new game. Even though I'm not a huge fan of the LCG, I know it has its value. I only wanted to share in my thoughts as a player in the LCG vs CCG debate. Honestly, I don't think FFG is going to make a bad game. I believe they have every intention on making the game great as they have invested so much in to acquiring the game. And even though it's getting released as an LCG, doesn't make me like the game less. If the original game just became an LCG instead of being sold, I wouldn't have stopped playing it because I love the game. The distribution model of an LCG isn't the make or break point for me at all. Like I've said many times before... If the game is fun, balanced, and has great mechanics, I will be all in. The distribution model has no bearing on whether or not I buy in to the game. I'm very excited to see what FFG does with the game we all loved for so many years and I'm sure they won't disappoint.

We agree finally. I have been very impressed by the games coming out of ffg and have said the sale "it will be a good game. It may not be a game I like, but it will be a good game."

i just hope that the game takes off and everything turns out good like it did with lotr, netrunner and agot 2.0, not just for the game itself, but also for you to drown in your bitterness, member berries and logical fallacies in your defense of ccg model because you are ruining the wait for everyone else.

Don't try and speak for everyone, man. Sparks is a genuinely good guy who has given a lot to the community and will absolutely give the LCG a chance. He's patiently (mostly) responding to questions thrown at him when he really shouldn't have to defend his preference. If you think he wants to the game to fail, you're at best delusional, but don't try and paint everyone else with the same brush.

Sparks is a great player and good dude who I have met personally who probably doesn't remember me. At the time I was (and still am) a nobody in the competitive scene, though I believe we met at either the Ann Arbor or Chicagoland kotei 2015 one of which I took top of Clan.

However, his very real reputation as a competent players and generally good guy has no bearing on his tendency to present anecdotes and opinions as fact, which is frustrating and wrong.

"How do you even do draft format in LCGs? That is a fun format that I know a LOT of people love."

I've only played Thrones 2.0 draft, but it's fantastic, and really fills me with hope for a viable L5R LCG draft format.

For Thrones, you get a fixed draft starter containing fifteen cards - five Plots, 3 each of Rose Road and Kingsroad, 2 copies of House Bannerman, a Wildling Scout, and a Rattleshirt's Raider. You also get four draft-exclusive Agendas that allow you to mix factions in a variety of ways.

You then need a draft booster, which contains 50 random cards. The current draft set uses select cards from the core set, the first and second cycles in their entirety, and the first two deluxe boxes, along with some draft-only cards. Each card is assigned an artificial rarity, either C, U, or R. You open a draft booster and keep it face down, then count off the top ten cards. This forms your first 'booster', and will contain a rare, three uncommons, and six commons (or thereabouts). You draft like you do in any other game, alternating booster packs left and right. At the end of drafting, you construct your deck - your plot deck must be exactly five cards, and your draw deck a minimum of 40.

I've done half a dozen or so drafts now and have greatly enjoyed each one. I've also built up my card pool with extra copies of stuff like Nightmares, Tears of Lys, Hand's Judgment etc. that I often find myself needing for multiple decks.

You can reuse starters between drafts, but need a new booster each time you play. For fifteen buck, it might seem expensive for some, but I get an afternoon's entertainment and more cards to fill out my extra decks, so I'm happy to pay it.

Apologies, I am busy and was not able to read as carefully as I'd like.

I have not drafted lcgs and my main preference for ccg is the ability to haveultiple copies of play sets of good cheap cards which is hard to do in an lcg.

Are you saying after draft you keep those cards? Because that would eliminate my main concern with the distribution switch.

"How do you even do draft format in LCGs? That is a fun format that I know a LOT of people love."

I've only played Thrones 2.0 draft, but it's fantastic, and really fills me with hope for a viable L5R LCG draft format.

For Thrones, you get a fixed draft starter containing fifteen cards - five Plots, 3 each of Rose Road and Kingsroad, 2 copies of House Bannerman, a Wildling Scout, and a Rattleshirt's Raider. You also get four draft-exclusive Agendas that allow you to mix factions in a variety of ways.

You then need a draft booster, which contains 50 random cards. The current draft set uses select cards from the core set, the first and second cycles in their entirety, and the first two deluxe boxes, along with some draft-only cards. Each card is assigned an artificial rarity, either C, U, or R. You open a draft booster and keep it face down, then count off the top ten cards. This forms your first 'booster', and will contain a rare, three uncommons, and six commons (or thereabouts). You draft like you do in any other game, alternating booster packs left and right. At the end of drafting, you construct your deck - your plot deck must be exactly five cards, and your draw deck a minimum of 40.

I've done half a dozen or so drafts now and have greatly enjoyed each one. I've also built up my card pool with extra copies of stuff like Nightmares, Tears of Lys, Hand's Judgment etc. that I often find myself needing for multiple decks.

You can reuse starters between drafts, but need a new booster each time you play. For fifteen buck, it might seem expensive for some, but I get an afternoon's entertainment and more cards to fill out my extra decks, so I'm happy to pay it.

I have not drafted lcgs and my main preference for ccg is the ability to haveultiple copies of play sets of good cheap cards which is hard to do in an lcg.

Are you saying after draft you keep those cards? Because that would eliminate my main concern with the distribution switch.

Sorry for double post. Internet while traveling is inconsistent.

"How do you even do draft format in LCGs? That is a fun format that I know a LOT of people love."

I've only played Thrones 2.0 draft, but it's fantastic, and really fills me with hope for a viable L5R LCG draft format.

For Thrones, you get a fixed draft starter containing fifteen cards - five Plots, 3 each of Rose Road and Kingsroad, 2 copies of House Bannerman, a Wildling Scout, and a Rattleshirt's Raider. You also get four draft-exclusive Agendas that allow you to mix factions in a variety of ways.

You then need a draft booster, which contains 50 random cards. The current draft set uses select cards from the core set, the first and second cycles in their entirety, and the first two deluxe boxes, along with some draft-only cards. Each card is assigned an artificial rarity, either C, U, or R. You open a draft booster and keep it face down, then count off the top ten cards. This forms your first 'booster', and will contain a rare, three uncommons, and six commons (or thereabouts). You draft like you do in any other game, alternating booster packs left and right. At the end of drafting, you construct your deck - your plot deck must be exactly five cards, and your draw deck a minimum of 40.

I've done half a dozen or so drafts now and have greatly enjoyed each one. I've also built up my card pool with extra copies of stuff like Nightmares, Tears of Lys, Hand's Judgment etc. that I often find myself needing for multiple decks.

You can reuse starters between drafts, but need a new booster each time you play. For fifteen buck, it might seem expensive for some, but I get an afternoon's entertainment and more cards to fill out my extra decks, so I'm happy to pay it.

That sounds very interesting. I'm actually excited to give this a try. I'm not a huge fan of draft, but I know there are a lot of locals here who love draft. One of the draws to draft was the chance to help fill out decks. While this way of doing draft takes a bit more prep time, it seems like you are able to do just that. As well as get in some fun games along the way. Totally stealing this idea, man!

Look guys. I hope it doesn't sound like I'm trying to ruin the wait for the new game. Even though I'm not a huge fan of the LCG, I know it has its value. I only wanted to share in my thoughts as a player in the LCG vs CCG debate. Honestly, I don't think FFG is going to make a bad game. I believe they have every intention on making the game great as they have invested so much in to acquiring the game. And even though it's getting released as an LCG, doesn't make me like the game less. If the original game just became an LCG instead of being sold, I wouldn't have stopped playing it because I love the game. The distribution model of an LCG isn't the make or break point for me at all. Like I've said many times before... If the game is fun, balanced, and has great mechanics, I will be all in. The distribution model has no bearing on whether or not I buy in to the game. I'm very excited to see what FFG does with the game we all loved for so many years and I'm sure they won't disappoint.

Yes, but what if there are too many tokens?

"How do you even do draft format in LCGs? That is a fun format that I know a LOT of people love."

I've only played Thrones 2.0 draft, but it's fantastic, and really fills me with hope for a viable L5R LCG draft format.

For Thrones, you get a fixed draft starter containing fifteen cards - five Plots, 3 each of Rose Road and Kingsroad, 2 copies of House Bannerman, a Wildling Scout, and a Rattleshirt's Raider. You also get four draft-exclusive Agendas that allow you to mix factions in a variety of ways.

You then need a draft booster, which contains 50 random cards. The current draft set uses select cards from the core set, the first and second cycles in their entirety, and the first two deluxe boxes, along with some draft-only cards. Each card is assigned an artificial rarity, either C, U, or R. You open a draft booster and keep it face down, then count off the top ten cards. This forms your first 'booster', and will contain a rare, three uncommons, and six commons (or thereabouts). You draft like you do in any other game, alternating booster packs left and right. At the end of drafting, you construct your deck - your plot deck must be exactly five cards, and your draw deck a minimum of 40.

I've done half a dozen or so drafts now and have greatly enjoyed each one. I've also built up my card pool with extra copies of stuff like Nightmares, Tears of Lys, Hand's Judgment etc. that I often find myself needing for multiple decks.

You can reuse starters between drafts, but need a new booster each time you play. For fifteen buck, it might seem expensive for some, but I get an afternoon's entertainment and more cards to fill out my extra decks, so I'm happy to pay it.

Oh man, I remember Draft Packs in L5R as so awful idea compaed to elegant system in latest arcs ("all you need are boosters"). All these draft packs in LCG sounds troublesome because Draft should be just easy to prepare without additional expenses. So imho LCGs should go into Cube like Draft formats instead.

Look guys. I hope it doesn't sound like I'm trying to ruin the wait for the new game. Even though I'm not a huge fan of the LCG, I know it has its value. I only wanted to share in my thoughts as a player in the LCG vs CCG debate. Honestly, I don't think FFG is going to make a bad game. I believe they have every intention on making the game great as they have invested so much in to acquiring the game. And even though it's getting released as an LCG, doesn't make me like the game less. If the original game just became an LCG instead of being sold, I wouldn't have stopped playing it because I love the game. The distribution model of an LCG isn't the make or break point for me at all. Like I've said many times before... If the game is fun, balanced, and has great mechanics, I will be all in. The distribution model has no bearing on whether or not I buy in to the game. I'm very excited to see what FFG does with the game we all loved for so many years and I'm sure they won't disappoint.

Yes, but what if there are too many tokens?

One token is too many! hehe

Kempy, you could actually TRY a format before deciding if it works or not, dude

BayushiCroy, you do indeed keep all the cards you draft. You can reconstruct your draft starter afterward for use again if you like though, as that saves on buying a new starter each time (for reference, starters go for $5 and draft packs are $15). The draft pool doesn't contain every card available, but the cards selected tend to be those you would use in multiple decks.

Kempy, you could actually TRY a format before deciding if it works or not, dude

I'm not going to pay single cent to FFG in near future so it won't happen. Just saying that requirements of external Drat stuff is troublesome if you want to start some organized play event from time to time. In CCG you just needed any boosters.

/me looking at sealed Evil Portents and base Ivory boxes i'm going to use as side Draft event material at first new-Kotei.

Look guys. I hope it doesn't sound like I'm trying to ruin the wait for the new game. Even though I'm not a huge fan of the LCG, I know it has its value. I only wanted to share in my thoughts as a player in the LCG vs CCG debate. Honestly, I don't think FFG is going to make a bad game. I believe they have every intention on making the game great as they have invested so much in to acquiring the game. And even though it's getting released as an LCG, doesn't make me like the game less. If the original game just became an LCG instead of being sold, I wouldn't have stopped playing it because I love the game. The distribution model of an LCG isn't the make or break point for me at all. Like I've said many times before... If the game is fun, balanced, and has great mechanics, I will be all in. The distribution model has no bearing on whether or not I buy in to the game. I'm very excited to see what FFG does with the game we all loved for so many years and I'm sure they won't disappoint.

Yes, but what if there are too many tokens?

One token is too many! hehe

Oh, come on! At the very least, they need five Arrow tokens for Tsuruchi!