Yeah, I expect L5RLCG will be HUGE...but I also think that FFG is going to be releasing a DIFFERENT Star Wars card game based on stuff from The Force Awakens sometime soon. THAT is going to be a huge game. I have high hopes that FFG will do their usual "we bought an old engine" schtick and buy Decipher's old Star Wars CCG system and revamp it to make a Star Wars: The Force Awakens-based LCG. I expect that game will become their biggest card game if they pull that off. But L5R is going to be big, too. I look forward to playing both - even if it means letting Netrunner and Conquest go for a bit.

I highly doubt that. They've said repeatedly that Star Wars is doing really well. I don't think they'll compete with their own Star Wars LCG that way. I do think they will add The Force Awakens stuff to the existing LCG eventually.

Barring that, I predict we'd see a TFA product that more closely mimics the recently announced Warhammer Quest card game. That game is similar to The Lord of the Rings, except it's not an LCG. It will likely be expanded like a traditional board game. I think that sort of game is what Star Wars needs next.

As such, I don't think The Force Awakens is going to be stealing many of the potential L5R players away.

Well, I've checked out the SKUs for upcoming product and there's no room for The Force Awakens-based stuff to appear in the existing SW:LCG before sometime well into 2016. Now, maybe you're right and they are just waiting to introduce it until much later after the film is out. But I would expect they want to release something close to when the film comes out in December. They released TFA stuff for X-wing as soon as they could, you know? God I hope they do. I really miss a GOOD Star Wars card game. Despite what FFG says, I know of NO SW:LCG playgroups anywhere near me and I live in a fairly large metropolitan area of Charlotte, N.C. USA.

Either way, I expect as others have mentioned that L5R won't get a fraction of the interest that Star Wars (or even Game of Thrones) does. I really like it and hope it succeeds but I think we should temper our expectations compared to the other properties owned by FFG.

There is a distinct difference between X-Wing and the Star Wars LCG. In X-Wing, we just need to know what the ships look like and maybe the names of some pilots. After that, you can make whatever stats you feel are right. You can make new abilities based off of X-wings and TIE Fighters because we already know what those things do. It really isn't hard to get a new product out before the movie.

The SW LCG, on the other hand, strives to keep a cohesive theme in each of its objective sets*. Additionally, each card ability is thematic, representing something that character or ship did in the stories. To incorporate those into the LCG, the employees at FFG would need to know the entire The Force Awakens story. I find it very unlikely that Disney handed a script over to them and said, "Here, keep this secret." Disney's going to wait until the movie releases (I think) and then FFG can start developing objective sets for new characters. That's why we haven't heard of any other plans for the new Star Wars movie.With X-Wing, they didn't need the stories, just the models.

That's my perspective on the matter.

*Star Wars deck building occurs in objective sets composed of 1 objective card and 5 command cards. If you want to take any card into your deck, you have to take the other 5 cards in the objective set as well. You take 10 objectives and shuffle them together for your event deck, and then you shuffle the 50 associated command cards to make your command deck. Objectives provide resources to purchase units, events, and enhancements and also act as a target for your opponent to attack. Command cards represent the units (characters, droids, vehicles, etc.), events, and enhancements (attachments) of the Star Wars galaxy that you use to attack enemy objectives, defend your own objectives, and control the balance of the Force.

Great. Now I wanna see Unicorn vs Dothraki...

And what about Dothraki riding Unicorns? :P

(sorry couldn't resist)

Sorry: Dothraki/Unicorns got mixed up

Oh my.

Proves you can ponify anything.

Okay ernough of this nonsence, let's get back on topic...

If not for the future upcoming movies' hype, the Star Wars LCG would already be dead. The hype helps sustain the sells for the LCG enough for FFG to keep producing it, and they don't want to stop it because the other products of the franchise are doing fine (X-Wing, Armada and the RPG).

AGOT is a nice game with a dedicated player base, but I'm anticipating the fact it will be far less competitive/tensed than L5R will be. Plus AGOT is a franchise going down, whatever we can think of it. The highest point was a few years or months ago. From now on, nothing really new is going to come out frequently... the next book is awaited of course, but aside from that was is coming out for the next 3/4 years ? Nothing. And it won't be enough. AGOT will live, as a nice card game.

But god, L5R has so much more potential than all of that !!! FFG just has to keep the best from the AEG era and make it better with their experience and knowledge. It will be a blast. In 2 years from now, you won't be able to say I didn't tell you !

Considering the #1 LCG that it has to beat is not a license to some popular media property, I find a lot of your arguements invalid.

Shadowlands vs Night's Watch: the Watch has become what is (a place to send all the undesirables) because people (including the Watch) no longer believe there is a real danger beyond the Wall. If they had kept facing the Others like the Crabs face the Shadowlands, they wouldn't have become an army of rapists, murderers and other criminals.

Daenerys doesn't stand a chance against Kachiko (not Kashiko, please). She's far too naive and inexperienced. If you want a successful female manipulator, you need Olenna Tyrell, the Queen of Thorns (much less sexy, I'll grant you, but let's see how sexy Kachiko will be when she has grandchildren).

By the way, I'm eagerly awaiting L5R's release as a LCG while enjoying AGoT (even if I'm still waiting for the release so I can play face to face). I expect I'll be playing both games.

I think L5R could (or will) be the #1 LCG but only after it becomes established, fleshed out its FFG story, and after the GoT and Star Wars crazes. The good thing is that most of the better Star Wars products are the miniatures games. Yes, the lcg is pretty nice but no where near the level of the miniatures. Hmmm, miniatures?

What if L5R actually brought back Clan Wars?

I think L5R could (or will) be the #1 LCG but only after it becomes established, fleshed out its FFG story, and after the GoT and Star Wars crazes. The good thing is that most of the better Star Wars products are the miniatures games. Yes, the lcg is pretty nice but no where near the level of the miniatures. Hmmm, miniatures?

What if L5R actually brought back Clan Wars?

And once again, AGOT and Star Wars are NOT the #1 LCG. Netrunner is. No media franchise tie in. I am confident this game will do well. But Netrunner is going to be tough to beat.

And once again, AGOT and Star Wars are NOT the #1 LCG. Netrunner is. No media franchise tie in. I am confident this game will do well. But Netrunner is going to be tough to beat.

5 years ago L5R was already more popular than what netrunner is right now... and I'm saying this while netrunner is at his high. So no, netrunner won't be hard to beat at all. Actually, L5R will get out exactly when people (that aren't already) will really start getting bored of netrunner (and I love this game, don't get me wrong). SW never was and never will never be a competition for L5R.

Now AGOT is the only real threat. It has a really good player base, and people like the setting a lot, with lot of charismatic characters. But it won't be.

End of the story : L5R will only be beaten by MTG... like in the old days. And I'm fine with that, because MTG is just miles away (it's even the opposite in many things) from what L5R is and will be.

And once again, AGOT and Star Wars are NOT the #1 LCG. Netrunner is. No media franchise tie in. I am confident this game will do well. But Netrunner is going to be tough to beat.

5 years ago L5R was already more popular than what netrunner is right now... and I'm saying this while netrunner is at his high. So no, netrunner won't be hard to beat at all. Actually, L5R will get out exactly when people (that aren't already) will really start getting bored of netrunner (and I love this game, don't get me wrong). SW never was and never will never be a competition for L5R.

Now AGOT is the only real threat. It has a really good player base, and people like the setting a lot, with lot of charismatic characters. But it won't be.

End of the story : L5R will only be beaten by MTG... like in the old days. And I'm fine with that, because MTG is just miles away (it's even the opposite in many things) from what L5R is and will be.

Lots of unfounded and vague assertions (more popular in terms of sales? games played daily, worldwide? event attendance? then prove any of them, not to mention difficulty of translating ccg sales vs. lcg sales in "popularity"). I'm excited for L5R and hope it does well, but Netrunner might have been lightning in a bottle in terms of audience capture.

I mean, I have no idea what L5R's popularity was 5 years ago (honestly, not that it matters), but Netrunner's a pretty impressive success story.

I counted 216 Netrunner Store Championships for 2015. I don't think any of the other LCGs even got close.

I don't understand the arguement. How is AGOT most likely to be the most popular LCG, when it hasn't been for quite some time now. While I am confident 2.0 will revitalize it, I don't see it being that much more popular. In fact, I just checked. AGOT only got 96 Store Championships in 2015. Which isn't bad, because people knew about 2.0 when it was time for stores to register for the tournaments.

Again, this is the scale we are talking about with Netrunner. 216 Store Championships vs 93. (SWLCG had 113, BTW)

So really, in all of this talk about whether or not L5R is going to be the #1 LCG, you cannot dismiss the king.

I counted 216 Netrunner Store Championships for 2015. I don't think any of the other LCGs even got close.

I don't understand the arguement. How is AGOT most likely to be the most popular LCG, when it hasn't been for quite some time now. While I am confident 2.0 will revitalize it, I don't see it being that much more popular. In fact, I just checked. AGOT only got 96 Store Championships in 2015. Which isn't bad, because people knew about 2.0 when it was time for stores to register for the tournaments.

Again, this is the scale we are talking about with Netrunner. 216 Store Championships vs 93. (SWLCG had 113, BTW)

So really, in all of this talk about whether or not L5R is going to be the #1 LCG, you cannot dismiss the king.

Yup. Experimental evidence is always proven by data, not by "feelings". It's interesting the 216 vs 113 vs 93, numbers we can relate to (but I'd be interested in the source; not for trolling, but because it's the kind of things I like monitoring). Saying "5 years ago the L5R is bigger than the Android community is now" it's... vague. Possibly it's wrong. Maybe it's right. But the fact that 5 years ago the community was big doesn't mean absolutely the community will follow the LCG model, or will simply be as big as it was before.

Just sayin'. I do love the setting, and I'll follow the line, and I wish FFG all the best for the product so that we can have a series of awesome games with this setting, and that's it. Be this game n.1 or not, well, time will tell.

Keep in mind, I only counted USA locations. So, feel free to compare it world wide. I get the impression that Netrunner is huge outside the US.

Netrunner:

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/more/android-netrunner-lcg-2015-store-championship-locations/

AGOT:

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/more/game-of-thrones-lcg-2015-store-championship-locations/

SWLCG:

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/more/star-wars-lcg-2015-store-championship-locations/

And just checked Conquest's, it looks like they had 136. And again, AGOT was in a weird position this year. They had already announced 2.0 at Worlds, so this was the last 1.0 tournament season. So I expect 2.0 to revitalize it.

And I do see plenty of reasons for L5R to be big, a few of which is why Netrunner took off. I'm just hesitant to say that it can unseat Netrunner.

@Sithborg

Two years is a plenty of time. We really don't know how A:NR will look in 2017. People might be bored, cards/design might be weak, you know.

Oh because the number of store championships is related to the success of a game ? the number of players that play the game ?

Now I thought it might more be related to the organisation, the structure, the capability to incent stores to participate. (I'm pointing out AEG flaws here, and FFG's success at it).

Truth is, the number of store championships in these conditions is just an indicator among others. (except if you only compare between FFG games)

Now you want a fact ? L5R has been during a long long time #2 to MTG, which is where Netrunner seats today if I'm correct... then it's not stupid to at least think they compare in terms of numbers of players.

The main thing is : I think you don't know the L5R community at all. Because it's not just an opinion I have, it's a certainty : L5R is totally going to make them look like second string games, just because the L5R community is totally going to make them look like second string communities.

Now you want a fact ? L5R has been during a long long time #2 to MTG, which is where Netrunner seats today if I'm correct... then it's not stupid to at least think they compare in terms of numbers of players.

Except, I think you are misrembering history. I have no doubt L5R was big. But, in the first big wave of CCGs in the 90s, the rival to Magic was Decipher's SWCCG. Or, at least that is what I remember from Scrye. Of course, this was before the dark times. Before... Pokemon. At which point, Pokemon and Yu-gi-oh became the #2 CCGs.

The thing about the store championships is that it shows the interest in game. That many stores have groups that they are willing to spend the money for a Store Championship kit. The interest in Netrunner tournaments vastly outstrips any other LCG. And tournament players are generally not the majority.

And no, I am not part of the L5R community. My interest comes from being aware of the game and a fan of FFG and the LCG format. This discussion is mainly an interesting to me as to what could happen. The constant dismissal of Netrunner as king LCG in favor for reasoning why SWLCG and AGOT are not going to be more popular is just weird to me.

The evidence of Netrunner's success is there. Between number of Store Championship numbers, Regional turnouts, how quick US Nationals sells out, to there even being a fan run tournament circuit that is getting off the ground. I am pretty certain L5R is going to be big. But the #1 LCG is going to be a lot tougher to acheive than many think. Netrunner is still growing.

Now you want a fact ? L5R has been during a long long time #2 to MTG, which is where Netrunner seats today if I'm correct... then it's not stupid to at least think they compare in terms of numbers of players.

Except, I think you are misrembering history. I have no doubt L5R was big. But, in the first big wave of CCGs in the 90s, the rival to Magic was Decipher's SWCCG. Or, at least that is what I remember from Scrye. Of course, this was before the dark times. Before... Pokemon. At which point, Pokemon and Yu-gi-oh became the #2 CCGs.

The thing about the store championships is that it shows the interest in game. That many stores have groups that they are willing to spend the money for a Store Championship kit. The interest in Netrunner tournaments vastly outstrips any other LCG. And tournament players are generally not the majority.

And no, I am not part of the L5R community. My interest comes from being aware of the game and a fan of FFG and the LCG format. This discussion is mainly an interesting to me as to what could happen. The constant dismissal of Netrunner as king LCG in favor for reasoning why SWLCG and AGOT are not going to be more popular is just weird to me.

The evidence of Netrunner's success is there. Between number of Store Championship numbers, Regional turnouts, how quick US Nationals sells out, to there even being a fan run tournament circuit that is getting off the ground. I am pretty certain L5R is going to be big. But the #1 LCG is going to be a lot tougher to acheive than many think. Netrunner is still growing.

I wish we could find something that gave an objective ranking of the LCGs made by FFG. I'm more curious which ranks where, but it could lead to some interesting insights probably. I was just going on an assumption that the two bigger IPs were bigger games.

Now you want a fact ? L5R has been during a long long time #2 to MTG, which is where Netrunner seats today if I'm correct... then it's not stupid to at least think they compare in terms of numbers of players.

Except, I think you are misrembering history. I have no doubt L5R was big. But, in the first big wave of CCGs in the 90s, the rival to Magic was Decipher's SWCCG. Or, at least that is what I remember from Scrye. Of course, this was before the dark times. Before... Pokemon. At which point, Pokemon and Yu-gi-oh became the #2 CCGs.

Oh god, my mind totally erased those two games (Pokemon, Yugioh) from my memories (*cough* I guess you understand why)... And of course you're right.

(double)

I wish we could find something that gave an objective ranking of the LCGs made by FFG. I'm more curious which ranks where, but it could lead to some interesting insights probably. I was just going on an assumption that the two bigger IPs were bigger games.

The number of Store Championships should give you a rough idea of how popular each game is compared to each other. Store Championships are the start of their Championship circuit, and are extremely easy to get. They are essentially glorified locals. I highly doubt a store would try to get one if they didn't have a playerbase.

Something to know, that the kits are all payed for by the store. There is no incentive from FFG to set up a Store Championship.

Oups we did it again. *looking down at W40k*

The #1 seed is L5R's. That's fore sure.

I don't think we can get na accurate account of the communities of dead CCGs... I think we all agree that MtG is still #1 by a large margin. We can also agree that while L5R may not have been as large as other games in their respective golden ages it stayed alive while all others died.

I won't make long time predictions not because I think the L5R fans will go away but because FFG seems to have no policy for long term, except to kill a game and reboot it.

The only reason I don't play Netrunner is because there is not entry package. If I want to play I have to go around looking for who knows how many data packs sold who-knows-where. Their policy of no block cycling, and endless adding of cards means the community will bleed players because it's too hard/expensive to get into the game.

Given this, I expect a huge sucess for a while and, assuming most mechanics stay the same, problem cards to appear in increasing volume. L5R goes from balanced to OP with 1GC diference. AEG worked the cycle of imbalances. No idea how to deal with it without cycles...

I'll buy, I'll play. I may even go to Gen Com 2017...

Netrunner has cycles, but it's not as frequent.

Oups we did it again. *looking down at W40k*

The #1 seed is L5R's. That's fore sure.

Don't use FFG LCG forums traffic as a measurement. Most LCGs discussion is not done on these boards.