If I was a betting man I would say the Raider is going to be FAST. Speed 4 anyone or 3 at the very least.

So if my guess is right then I foresee the Raider playing a huge filling a couple of rolls.

1. Imp's answer to the CR-90

2. Close range Rear arc attacker

3. Anti squadron defense (blues and black anti squad dice)

My question is how much will the point cost be for this ship? 2 or 3 of them should make short work of a CR-90 without taking a loss

I wonder if the MC30 will take Engine Techs? Hope so!! But I suspect not

To me the Glad I is underpriced, especially with the Demolisher title.

I hope the reveal the Squadrons on Wednesday.

I wonder if the MC30 will take Engine Techs? Hope so!! But I suspect not

To me the Glad I is underpriced, especially with the Demolisher title.

I hope the reveal the Squadrons on Wednesday.

It will be better than the glad in the regard that it will likely be able to take Ions for the Torpedo Frigate and Turbolasers for the Scout Frigate.

This is important because you can add Overload Pulse, Leading Shots, XI7 Turbolasers or Heavy Turbolaser Turrets

The card never showed the upgrade slot for it.

It will be better than the glad in the regard that it will likely be able to take Ions for the Torpedo Frigate and Turbolasers for the Scout Frigate.

This is important because you can add Overload Pulse, Leading Shots, XI7 Turbolasers or Heavy Turbolaser Turrets

Assuming that the "Here They Come" promo photo is a fair capture of what will be in the final MC-30 set, it does seem unlikely to me that the ship will be able to take an engine techs upgrade. Of the ten upgrade cards sorta-promo'd, the first six are clearly not support team upgrades (1 commander, 1 unique officer, 1 weapons team, 1 defensive retrofit, 1 turbolaser, and 1 ordinance), two are clearly unique titles, one is Rapid Reload (partially spoiled in the Raider promo pic, and presumably an ordinance upgrade/modification), and the last one is unrevealed (although its back cover art looks like an officer upgrade). Since FFG generally seems to put an upgrade card that corresponds to a ship in that ship's pack, this would seem to suggest that the MC-30 (or at least some variant of it) will support upgrades for officers, weapons team, defensive retrofit, turbolaser, and ordinance. Other than the Turbo laser upgrade slot, it seems likely that the other four upgrades will appear on both variants.

Of course, the other obvious missing party is ion upgrade... which also appears to be absent from the Here They Come promo art. At first glance, that seems odd for a ship sporting blue dice, although the AFII A/B also sport blue dice, but lack an ion upgrade slot. So that brings a few questions to mind:

1. Is there reason to believe that a small ship will have 5 upgrade slots? So far, at least, the small ships top out at 4 (Gladiator and Cr-90; the Neb-B only has 3).

2. If so, what sort of points premium will be associated with 5 upgrade slots? The cheapest so far are the AFII-B at 72 and the Victory I at 73 (each with 5 upgrades slots), but both are also medium ships. On the flip side, there are many other differences between those ships, some of which favor the more expensive variants (2x health for Vic I, Braces on both, 5 more shields for AFII; primarily black dice, which appear to be generally costed less than blue/red), and others which favor the MC-30 (more total dice than AFII A or B, just one less than Vic; more total dice on primary facings than AFIIs, just one less than Vic; more total shields than Vic; more speed than both, etc).

Thoughts?

Blue dice are not necessarily linked to ions, they also represent (non-turbo) laser cannons. So there's absolutely no evidence that the MC-30 should have the ion upgrade icon. Not saying it won't, only that it's hardly a given.

As for the points cost/value for upgrade slots... it's not much. A fraction of a point per slot, but of course it depends on the ship. A Support Team slot would be priceless on a VSD, while an ion slot wouldn't be worth much on a Nebulon-B.

Giving you better activation-order control, an extra command dial per turn, and two anti-squadron dice is worth the ~60 points it'll cost in a 400 point fleet.

And that's without knowledge of what titles are going to let you do.

60? I sure hope it's cheaper than a Glad.

60? I sure hope it's cheaper than a Glad.

Um... yeah, I would hope so, too. :-) Frankly I'd be surprised at anything over 50 (at least for the cheaper variant).

I believe that the Raiders role will be something a kind to a WW2 destroyer.

The big ships will slug it out at long range at each other, while the small ships will engage each other in a swirling fast paced melee, where the winning side will break through and make close in supporting attack on the enemy big ships.

The Raider will obviously be the flank protection against attacks from CR90's/MC30's trying to creap around to the rear of the imperial battle formation.

When one considers that the combined closing speed of the Raider and CR90, the Raider would only be in harms way without being able to answer back at the CR90, for perhaps one round, before the two are then at medium or short range from each other in the following round.

Well the above is what I invision will happen, have not played any games yet... sigh...not many oppotunities for a game of Armada here in Denmark.

Never fear, citizens, the Imperial Security Bureau will be having a conversation with Mr. Dice about his close association with Rebel personnel and equipment.

I believe that the Raiders role will be something a kind to a WW2 destroyer.

The big ships will slug it out at long range at each other, while the small ships will engage each other in a swirling fast paced melee, where the winning side will break through and make close in supporting attack on the enemy big ships.

The Raider will obviously be the flank protection against attacks from CR90's/MC30's trying to creap around to the rear of the imperial battle formation.

When one considers that the combined closing speed of the Raider and CR90, the Raider would only be in harms way without being able to answer back at the CR90, for perhaps one round, before the two are then at medium or short range from each other in the following round.

Well the above is what I invision will happen, have not played any games yet... sigh...not many oppotunities for a game of Armada here in Denmark.

Just find someone interested on here and pm them to set up a time

Likely you. The trends show that is how they have been doing things.

CR90 B 39

CR90 A 44

Nebulon-B Support 51

Gladiator I 56

Nebulon-B Escort 57

Gladiator II 62

Assault Frigate Mkii B 72

Victory I 73

Assault Frigate Mkii A 81

Victory II 85

Command Cruiser 106

Imperial I 110

Assault Cruiser 114

Imperial II 120

Trend analysis. . . The issue is that the MC30 does not fit anywhere in there. . .

That's because the MC30 will either be free, or cost even more than the ISD II. I'm not a betting man, but i'd put my money on the second option. That little shrip is going to have 15 black dice in it's side arc, just you wait.

Likely you. The trends show that is how they have been doing things.

CR90 B 39

CR90 A 44

Nebulon-B Support 51

Gladiator I 56

Nebulon-B Escort 57

Gladiator II 62

Assault Frigate Mkii B 72

Victory I 73

Assault Frigate Mkii A 81

Victory II 85

Command Cruiser 106

Imperial I 110

Assault Cruiser 114

Imperial II 120

Trend analysis. . . The issue is that the MC30 does not fit anywhere in there. . .

That's because the MC30 will either be free, or cost even more than the ISD II. I'm not a betting man, but i'd put my money on the second option. That little shrip is going to have 15 black dice in it's side arc, just you wait.

On a serious note that chart doesn't have a spot for the mc-30 because the neb-b is the ship out of place, it's like the random extra ship that doesn't have a clear role...

60? I sure hope it's cheaper than a Glad.

Well, I'm assuming outfitted with an upgrade or two.

The card never showed the upgrade slot for it.

It will be better than the glad in the regard that it will likely be able to take Ions for the Torpedo Frigate and Turbolasers for the Scout Frigate.

This is important because you can add Overload Pulse, Leading Shots, XI7 Turbolasers or Heavy Turbolaser Turrets

Assuming that the "Here They Come" promo photo is a fair capture of what will be in the final MC-30 set, it does seem unlikely to me that the ship will be able to take an engine techs upgrade. Of the ten upgrade cards sorta-promo'd, the first six are clearly not support team upgrades (1 commander, 1 unique officer, 1 weapons team, 1 defensive retrofit, 1 turbolaser, and 1 ordinance), two are clearly unique titles, one is Rapid Reload (partially spoiled in the Raider promo pic, and presumably an ordinance upgrade/modification), and the last one is unrevealed (although its back cover art looks like an officer upgrade). Since FFG generally seems to put an upgrade card that corresponds to a ship in that ship's pack, this would seem to suggest that the MC-30 (or at least some variant of it) will support upgrades for officers, weapons team, defensive retrofit, turbolaser, and ordinance. Other than the Turbo laser upgrade slot, it seems likely that the other four upgrades will appear on both variants.

Of course, the other obvious missing party is ion upgrade... which also appears to be absent from the Here They Come promo art. At first glance, that seems odd for a ship sporting blue dice, although the AFII A/B also sport blue dice, but lack an ion upgrade slot. So that brings a few questions to mind:

1. Is there reason to believe that a small ship will have 5 upgrade slots? So far, at least, the small ships top out at 4 (Gladiator and Cr-90; the Neb-B only has 3).

2. If so, what sort of points premium will be associated with 5 upgrade slots? The cheapest so far are the AFII-B at 72 and the Victory I at 73 (each with 5 upgrades slots), but both are also medium ships. On the flip side, there are many other differences between those ships, some of which favor the more expensive variants (2x health for Vic I, Braces on both, 5 more shields for AFII; primarily black dice, which appear to be generally costed less than blue/red), and others which favor the MC-30 (more total dice than AFII A or B, just one less than Vic; more total dice on primary facings than AFIIs, just one less than Vic; more total shields than Vic; more speed than both, etc).

Thoughts?

It is a balancing issue. The Nebulon-B has 3 upgrade slots and the CR90 has 4. It is highly possible that the MC30 has 4 upgrades and swaps out an upgrade slot for the use of Turbolasers. It is also possible that Lando or another officer upgrade gives you access to the Turbolasers.

Remember that the MC30 from what we know now has 1 more total die than a Gladiator. It has more shields, the Torpedo Frigate has more red dice than a GSD 2 which tells me it will be more expensive. It will come down to how much the value of the Turbolaser slot and 1 less hull and 3 more shields is worth compared to the GSD's 1 more hull, 3 less shields and support team upgrade.

I am going to say that the MC30 Torpedo will be 61pts and the Scout Frigate will be 67pts.

Blue dice are not necessarily linked to ions, they also represent (non-turbo) laser cannons.

Well, so far every Ion related card in the game activates on a blue critical. I'd say there's a strong argument for a connection there.

Blue dice obviously don't guarantee an ion cannon slot, but on that same note you're not going to see an ion cannon slot on a ship that lacks a blue die complement.

The card never showed the upgrade slot for it.

It will be better than the glad in the regard that it will likely be able to take Ions for the Torpedo Frigate and Turbolasers for the Scout Frigate.

This is important because you can add Overload Pulse, Leading Shots, XI7 Turbolasers or Heavy Turbolaser Turrets

Assuming that the "Here They Come" promo photo is a fair capture of what will be in the final MC-30 set, it does seem unlikely to me that the ship will be able to take an engine techs upgrade. Of the ten upgrade cards sorta-promo'd, the first six are clearly not support team upgrades (1 commander, 1 unique officer, 1 weapons team, 1 defensive retrofit, 1 turbolaser, and 1 ordinance), two are clearly unique titles, one is Rapid Reload (partially spoiled in the Raider promo pic, and presumably an ordinance upgrade/modification), and the last one is unrevealed (although its back cover art looks like an officer upgrade). Since FFG generally seems to put an upgrade card that corresponds to a ship in that ship's pack, this would seem to suggest that the MC-30 (or at least some variant of it) will support upgrades for officers, weapons team, defensive retrofit, turbolaser, and ordinance. Other than the Turbo laser upgrade slot, it seems likely that the other four upgrades will appear on both variants.

Of course, the other obvious missing party is ion upgrade... which also appears to be absent from the Here They Come promo art. At first glance, that seems odd for a ship sporting blue dice, although the AFII A/B also sport blue dice, but lack an ion upgrade slot. So that brings a few questions to mind:

1. Is there reason to believe that a small ship will have 5 upgrade slots? So far, at least, the small ships top out at 4 (Gladiator and Cr-90; the Neb-B only has 3).

2. If so, what sort of points premium will be associated with 5 upgrade slots? The cheapest so far are the AFII-B at 72 and the Victory I at 73 (each with 5 upgrades slots), but both are also medium ships. On the flip side, there are many other differences between those ships, some of which favor the more expensive variants (2x health for Vic I, Braces on both, 5 more shields for AFII; primarily black dice, which appear to be generally costed less than blue/red), and others which favor the MC-30 (more total dice than AFII A or B, just one less than Vic; more total dice on primary facings than AFIIs, just one less than Vic; more total shields than Vic; more speed than both, etc).

Thoughts?

It is a balancing issue. The Nebulon-B has 3 upgrade slots and the CR90 has 4. It is highly possible that the MC30 has 4 upgrades and swaps out an upgrade slot for the use of Turbolasers. It is also possible that Lando or another officer upgrade gives you access to the Turbolasers.

Remember that the MC30 from what we know now has 1 more total die than a Gladiator. It has more shields, the Torpedo Frigate has more red dice than a GSD 2 which tells me it will be more expensive. It will come down to how much the value of the Turbolaser slot and 1 less hull and 3 more shields is worth compared to the GSD's 1 more hull, 3 less shields and support team upgrade.

I am going to say that the MC30 Torpedo will be 61pts and the Scout Frigate will be 67pts.

I don't know, the 61 makes sense I guess because of the tendency so far to stagger Imp/Rebel ship costs, but even the blue dice MC-30 looks like a better spend of points than a Glad II (one less health and one less anti-squadron die, but almost double the shields, same number of black dice, more anti-ship dice overall...). And that's not even factoring in the possibility of speed 4 or four defense tokens.

If I were pricing independently, I'd lean towards 65 and 70 myself (assuming speed 4 and three defense tokens). The difference between the confirmed stat of the MC-30 and AFIIB seems smaller than the gap between the MC-30 and Glad II (especially if the MC-30 has more than three defense tokens). But maybe that's just me.

it's like the random extra ship that doesn't have a clear role...

Regarding the Raider, I'd expect it to be like it is in X-Wing - a little stronger than a CR-90 and a little more expensive. I don't remember how the dials compare, I've only had about two games of Epic so haven't had much chance to get a feel for how they handle.

I hope it comes with some specific upgrade to TIE Advanced, just for fun!

Edit: spelling

Blue dice are not necessarily linked to ions, they also represent (non-turbo) laser cannons.

Well, so far every Ion related card in the game activates on a blue critical. I'd say there's a strong argument for a connection there.

Blue dice obviously don't guarantee an ion cannon slot, but on that same note you're not going to see an ion cannon slot on a ship that lacks a blue die complement.

Blue dice do in fact garantuee an ion cannon slot, however, one dice is not sufficient. But all ships who have two or more blue dice on one side have Ion cannons.

Furthermore, this goes for black and red die as well. Two or more seem to guarantee the ordnance and turbolasers upgrade, respetively. The only exception is the Imperial I star destroyer which lacks Orndance while having a sizeable pool of black die.

Babs out!

Blue dice are not necessarily linked to ions, they also represent (non-turbo) laser cannons.

Well, so far every Ion related card in the game activates on a blue critical. I'd say there's a strong argument for a connection there.

Blue dice obviously don't guarantee an ion cannon slot, but on that same note you're not going to see an ion cannon slot on a ship that lacks a blue die complement.

Blue dice do in fact garantuee an ion cannon slot, however, one dice is not sufficient. But all ships who have two or more blue dice on one side have Ion cannons.

Furthermore, this goes for black and red die as well. Two or more seem to guarantee the ordnance and turbolasers upgrade, respetively. The only exception is the Imperial I star destroyer which lacks Orndance while having a sizeable pool of black die.

Babs out!

Huh? I think you're drawing too many conclusions from too few sample points.

At present, a lot of people appear to assume that red=turbolasers, blue=ions, black=missiles, always. But Star Wars has (slightly) more weapon variety than that. Consider ships like the Lancer Frigate or the Interdictor Cruiser, which are armed only with quad laser cannons. No turbolasers, no ions, no missiles. What dice should they get? Unless FFG release a new (green?) die, the answer is probably blue and black.

Ion weapons are represented by blue dice. But not all blue dice come from ion weapons (they can also represent medium-range laser cannons).

Ordnance is represented by black dice. But not all black dice represent missiles (they can also represent many batteries of short-range laser cannons, as on an ISD-I).

As for red dice... well, I don't think the SW universe has anything comparable to turbolasers, so I guess that one is pretty much a 1=1 match.

P.S. Is that Babs from the A&A Forumini? Good to see you here too (I'm EK over there)

If nothing else the Raider will be the lightest capital ship in the Imperial Navy, and by then they'll have one ship for each weight class to finally compete with the Rebels. I plan on having two, and I intend on using them as either far-ranging flankers or escorts for the heavier ships. In the very least, for whatever I'm paying for I'll now have two dice for anti-fighter attacks. That has to help in the face of all those superior and heavier Rebel starfighters.

How about if we first get our eager hands on the Raider, play with it a bit and perhaps wait for a tournament result or two before making any conclusions?

At the very least, I think the Raider will be a specialized weapon that will be effective in certain builds since FFG may have learned a thing or two with X-Wing and early Armada design.

If the Raider does end up being a dud that makes rare appearances in Imperial fleets, it would at least be flavorwin. After all, how many Raiders do we actually see in Star Wars canon and the EU?

Looking at the ship point costs laid out like that- it's suddenly apparent that there is a vacancy for 90 point ships. I wonder which ships will be 90 points in future waves?

Medium sized ships. Something larger than the Victory but maybe large enough to classify in that category. . . Wave 3 may show us something there

If the raider I is equal to or less than 40 points, I will have a mass production-ready new best friend. 43 is my disa-point cost. If it is 44 and above, the only way I'd play it is if one of the titles was "Thug Life" and it had a "bling" upgrade spot for rims and hydraulics.

Edit: Perhaps 45 is my disa-point cost and 48 is the refuse to run.