Has anybody tried throwing engine techs on a Neb? I was thinking about this today, because lately the Neb has seemed pretty underwhelming, but I love the little ship and enjoy running it whenever I can.

The Nebulon's traditional weakness is its flanks, which forces you to point its nose at the enemy in a joust. This creates another problem, because Star Destroyers pack such a punch from the front arc, that you simply end up with a nose-bleed. To mitigate this, traditional Rebel strategy seems to be to crawl forward, exchange long-range shots, and then rocket by at high speed.

This works to some degree, but the Nebulon also suffers from being countered by Gladiators, which wipe the floor with a Nebulon at close-quarters and can run them down in the open field.

It seems to me that Engine techs may help with both of these issues. For one, the upgrade would allow the Neb to become a flanker extraordinaire in the image of the Corvette. The hard nose and red dice in a rear arc are much more threatening than they are in a joust, and the techs help with movement and turning, which helps hide your weak flanks as you swing around to get into position on the enemy. If you choose not to flank, it also helps with the joust, as you can rocket past the deadly front arc on a VSD more effectively than you could without the techs.

In addition, the engine boost allows you to simply run from Gladiators, who can no longer chase you down effectively.

I am curious to know if anyone has tried this, and whether or not it has worked. Feedback would be much appreciated if any is available from experience (theory-crafting is of course welcome as well). I may try and get a couple of games this weekend with this combo, and will update with results after if I can.

Anytime I try to maneuver a Neb I just end up exposing its side arcs to a pounding. I`m gonna try 3 or 4 in a tight grouping inching along at speed 1. Span Concentrate fire tokens and hurl 16 reds a turn at anyone who dares to approach.

Anytime I try to maneuver a Neb I just end up exposing its side arcs to a pounding. I`m gonna try 3 or 4 in a tight grouping inching along at speed 1. Span Concentrate fire tokens and hurl 16 reds a turn at anyone who dares to approach.

That will help with jousting, but still won't stop one of the major issues: A Demolisher Gald will go right down the row from the flank and eat every single one if it gets even a little support from anything else. The Nebs won't even be able to turn to face it in time.

That will help with jousting, but still won't stop one of the major issues: A Demolisher Gald will go right down the row from the flank and eat every single one if it gets even a little support from anything else. The Nebs won't even be able to turn to face it in time.

A Neb-B with Engine Techs, a Stored Token, and a Navigate Command effectively has 5 Clicks of yaw at Speed 3+1 for a better-than-90 degree turn...

That will help with jousting, but still won't stop one of the major issues: A Demolisher Gald will go right down the row from the flank and eat every single one if it gets even a little support from anything else. The Nebs won't even be able to turn to face it in time.

A Neb-B with Engine Techs, a Stored Token, and a Navigate Command effectively has 5 Clicks of yaw at Speed 3+1 for a better-than-90 degree turn...

Right, but then they have the engine techs I was suggesting, and are no longer being used in the slow crawl. This supports what I was saying--engine techs may give them the flexibility and speed they need to deal with common problems they face.

My opponent likes running them with nav teams and raymus as detailed by the strategy article from ffg a few weeks back.

This allows the neb 5 yaw off of a command and a tighter turn then the engine techs.

He has used it good effect against my vsd, it still struggles against my glads though, but I run engine techs so there is no way to run from demolisher (and honestly I don't think there is a way for the neb to effectively defeat a glad)

My opponent likes running them with nav teams and raymus as detailed by the strategy article from ffg a few weeks back.

This allows the neb 5 yaw off of a command and a tighter turn then the engine techs.

He has used it good effect against my vsd, it still struggles against my glads though, but I run engine techs so there is no way to run from demolisher (and honestly I don't think there is a way for the neb to effectively defeat a glad)

Yeah, the glads are a problem. This is partially why I want to try it out with the engine techs, though. It may be impossible for the Nebulon to defeat a Gladiator, but if with Engine Techs it may become impossible for the Gladiator to defeat the Nebulon--you can't kill what you can't catch!

That will help with jousting, but still won't stop one of the major issues: A Demolisher Gald will go right down the row from the flank and eat every single one if it gets even a little support from anything else. The Nebs won't even be able to turn to face it in time.

A Neb-B with Engine Techs, a Stored Token, and a Navigate Command effectively has 5 Clicks of yaw at Speed 3+1 for a better-than-90 degree turn...

Right, but then they have the engine techs I was suggesting, and are no longer being used in the slow crawl. This supports what I was saying--engine techs may give them the flexibility and speed they need to deal with common problems they face.

You can actually have it both ways, with proper planning. Slow-walk the Nebs in at Speed 1 for turns 1-3, then jump to Speed 3 + 1 with a navigate command and banked token (or with Raymus on one of the Nebs).

I would not recommend doing this without trying it out in the lab first, as the more nebs you have, the more... er... limited... your maneuvering options become as you make the jump forward. Unfortunately the lack of yaw on the speed 3 maneuver makes it easy to jump into an overlap, even with an extra yaw from the navigate dial. These collisions, of course, would defeat the point of the rampant jump.

I've only used this tactic once, since I can usually find another upgrade that is both cheaper and likely to be used more than once. Also, coming back down from speed 3 can be a problem (it usually takes two rounds, unless you have Garm passing out more tokens right after you jump). But the look on the face of an Imp player after your slow-rollers jump his Vic (or Glad) is priceless...

Rytgbryt makes a good point, because the ships are maneuvered around the left or right post of the stand you don't exactly pivot. nicely.

Rather than using the ships in a close formation you may want to practice just flying them in a very loose formation and bring them together when you launch and attack.

BTW: Double rams for the win!!

I like to run Yavaris and B-wings to keep the GSDs off the flank of a slow moving Neb line. I've also been experimenting with starting at speed 2, first turn nav command for the token, and then gear up or down later on. It allows a little more turning than speed 1, and you can do speed 1.7 by clicking left then right (or visa versa). This allows you to shift your line to your advantage and helps the B-wings keep up. I also run 4 b-wings when I can to keep a nice spread around Yavaris. It means I do less repositioning.

As tran suggested: squadrons

Your slower, not close combat capable ships won't ever be able to reliably counter a close combat speed demon

But squadrons don't care about your arcs

Bwings acting as primed mines with 4 dice each...

Yeah youll lose a neb. Said neb won't ever be worth close to 66 points (realistically 73 at the very least)

I quite enjoy A neb battle line, with salvation and yavaris in it, supported by bwings, just make sure you dont put yavaris as the end of line neb, so it wont get eaten first!, going speed 1, the bwings can keep up no problem.

either they end up eating a glad, or you drop them in front of the fatties. (worth doing some LAB after you've decided your list in the Tub)

As tran suggested: squadrons

Your slower, not close combat capable ships won't ever be able to reliably counter a close combat speed demon

But squadrons don't care about your arcs

Bwings acting as primed mines with 4 dice each...

Yeah youll lose a neb. Said neb won't ever be worth close to 66 points (realistically 73 at the very least)

It's interesting that everyone (including me) always thinks of the Nebulon as slow and the Glad as a speed demon. They are the same speed. It seems that we are all pretty boxed in when it comes to Nebulon tactics, as the speed limitation doesn't come from the ship, but from our use of it.

I am merely suggesting that this box in which the Nebulon has found itself (slow jouster) is a limitation imposed by our own choices as admirals. Perhaps using the engine techs (the same upgrade that turns the glad into a speed demon) would help us to get outside of this box. I don't know if it will work or not, but I want to at least give it a spin.

As tran suggested: squadrons

Your slower, not close combat capable ships won't ever be able to reliably counter a close combat speed demon

But squadrons don't care about your arcs

Bwings acting as primed mines with 4 dice each...

Yeah youll lose a neb. Said neb won't ever be worth close to 66 points (realistically 73 at the very least)

It's interesting that everyone (including me) always thinks of the Nebulon as slow and the Glad as a speed demon. They are the same speed. It seems that we are all pretty boxed in when it comes to Nebulon tactics, as the speed limitation doesn't come from the ship, but from our use of it.

I am merely suggesting that this box in which the Nebulon has found itself (slow jouster) is a limitation imposed by our own choices as admirals. Perhaps using the engine techs (the same upgrade that turns the glad into a speed demon) would help us to get outside of this box. I don't know if it will work or not, but I want to at least give it a spin.

Nothing wrong with giving it a go to be sure.

The reason that nebs suffer in the speed demon category, as I'm sure you know, is the 1 shields sides. This makes it very vulnerable if it can't shoot past the enemy in one round.

Using engine techs, while helpful, may still not be enough. I look forward to reading about your results.

I agree we are caught by our thinking, not by the speed stats. But our thinking is influenced by the shield and gun stats. The GSD has powerful yet short range guns suggesting you want to get up close as fast as possible. The Neb has powerful long range guns and relatively weak sides suggesting it want to remain at max distance as long as possible.

Another factor in our thinking is 300 vs 400 points. At 300 points a single Neb is often a reasonable chunk of our fleet that we don't want to see vaporized too quickly. At 400 points it's percentage of the fleet shrinks making it slightly more acceptable to put it out on an island and possibly get lost, IF it forces the enemy into a bad position that the rest of the fleet can then benefit from.

Let's imagine the superior positions objective. The enemy places in one big group. We make a main fleet and a smaller flanking fleet. Perhaps a CR-90 and a Neb with Engine Tech. Now the enemy is forced to divert forces to face the flankers or allow them to get behind. A Neb in a rear arc is actually pretty amazing as in a follow situation the lead ship fires at short range then moves into long range. Well the Neb doesn't care.

They way I've been using my one Neb is to relinquish its firing potential for 2-3 turns to allow it to maneuver into a better position. If the opponent bites on that, I'll use it as bait for trapping the opponent.

The problem with the neb being fast is that it's not effective at those speeds

The one shield sides are irrelevant as far as this goes, it's the WIDTH of those sides and how puny the battery armaments are that make it very difficult to leverage the otherwise solid nav chart

Also, vsd turns at speed 1

The gsd has no such concerns. As long as you're close and not behind him, he's a happy camper

The only way to not care about the NEB's inability to leverage its chart is squadrons. Both your squadrons and anti squadron batteries don't care about your facing

There is one fast neb, though, and it's whoever raymus is on

Nebs can work as flankers, but you're going to need a solid anchor for your battle line, so they need to be one of your least damaging ships.

A VSD has the turning capability to intercept a flanking Neb. You have to provide him with a reason not to do so (currently, with an AFMK2 in the Center that is shooting from range), so the VSDs keep their best arc on the face of the AFMK2 and not unintentionally expose its rear by trying to angle for the Neb B.

There are two problems with that strategy. First, if the opponent has a Gladiator, it's a really hard counter. Second, even when flanking with the Neb, you always have to angle your front arc towards your most immediate and dangerous threat, and as soon as you pass it in the rear arc, it'll still be able to shoot your side arc. Granted, the Nebs can tank 2 red dice, but it's still a gamble.

As tran suggested: squadrons

Your slower, not close combat capable ships won't ever be able to reliably counter a close combat speed demon

But squadrons don't care about your arcs

Bwings acting as primed mines with 4 dice each...

Yeah youll lose a neb. Said neb won't ever be worth close to 66 points (realistically 73 at the very least)

I can certainly see this bringing a Gladiator down. In my recent tournament experience I had 4 B-Wings (Including Farlander) and over three games had them destroy 3 CR90s and, more impressively, 2 VSDs (the first with Motti aboard). They did have supporting fire from their AFM2 carrier. Played right, and without enemy fighter opposition, the B-Wings are deadly.

I think if you use it to flank, you can also abort if things go south. Especially when you no longer are going North/South (sorry, football reference as the season is upon us!). Gladiators are problematic... But I'll usually keep 2 squads with my Escort Neb and won't keep it too far out of sight of my AF. Counter my maneuver, I'll make your Glad pay.

Yes, a table is best, but I'm content just boning you out of 10-0 win.

They way I've been using my one Neb is to relinquish its firing potential for 2-3 turns to allow it to maneuver into a better position. If the opponent bites on that, I'll use it as bait for trapping the opponent.

I've tried this strategy once. Unfortunately, instead of forcing the opponent into an all-or-nothing choice, the Demolisher just peeled off to chase the lone Neb, while the other Vics/Glads stay on target for my main fleet. Needless to say, the Neb suffered a swift if less-than-graceful death. I really like the theory behind this strategy, so any thoughts on how I can better sell the neb threat?

The problem with the neb being fast is that it's not effective at those speeds

The one shield sides are irrelevant as far as this goes, it's the WIDTH of those sides and how puny the battery armaments are that make it very difficult to leverage the otherwise solid nav chart

Also, vsd turns at speed 1

The gsd has no such concerns. As long as you're close and not behind him, he's a happy camper

The only way to not care about the NEB's inability to leverage its chart is squadrons. Both your squadrons and anti squadron batteries don't care about your facing

There is one fast neb, though, and it's whoever raymus is on

Agreed, at least as regards Wave I. For Wave II, though, I think things can change, if admirals want it to.

I've been toying recently with running a Neb or two with two MC-80s (Yavaris, Redemption, or both), in some sort of extended Conga line (I think that's the right term... the strafing line Schmitty uses that would move at speed 2 or 3 ). I am thinking some variation on these fleets:

1. MC-80 Command (Ackbar, Home One), MC-80 Command (Defiance), Neb-B Refit (Redemption), AF-IIB: 392 points [8 points for upgrades/bid].
2. MC-80 Command (Ackbar, Home One), MC-80 Command (Defiance), Neb-B Refit (Redemption), Neb-B Refit: 373 points [27 points for upgrades/bid].
3. MC-80 Command (Ackbar, Home One), MC-80 Command (Defiance), Neb-B Refit (Redemption), Neb-B Escort: 379 points [21 points for upgrades/bid].
4. MC-80 Command (Ackbar, Home One), MC-80 Command (Defiance), Neb-B Escort (Yavaris), 5 Y-wings: 375 points [25 points for upgrades/bid].

The Nebs would be deployed between (and maybe a little behind) the two MC-80s, all moving speed 2 (or 3 if I can get engine techs on the MC-80s, though that gets pricey quickly). Normally I would worry about exposing the Neb's side flanks, but spamming repair commands (especially with Redemption) in the middle of all that cover fire mitigates the risk, I think. Pointing the Neb's nose away from the enemy is also counter to how the ships were used in Wave I, but Ackbar makes the side arcs of a Neb-B just as potent as the front at long-range (and more potent at medium range). Combined with the incredible width of those side-arcs, this would allow for significant, overlapping cross-fire between the 3-4 ships (2 Nebs/2MC-80s, 1 Neb/1 AFII/2 MC-80s, etc). I'm willing to bet that any Gladiator that comes after the Neb's side-arcs isn't making it out alive (with Ackbar, the Neb, two MC-80s, and Defiance title, that's as many as 21 dice before CF commands, Y-wing strikes, Yavaris double-taps, etc.). That seems like a worth-while trade to me. And really, what are the odds an enemy will focus a neb with two MC-80s in the vicinity?

At least in theory, this makes for a vastly different gameplay experience, which allows the Neb to fit more seamlessly with the rest of the Rebels' broadside-oriented ships. Nebs would move away from their current long-range sniper role, and more towards the escort/support role that they filled in the lore. The Neb's wide side arcs provides additional cover against bombers (if an escort), and supportive fire against enemy ships, but the support titles (buffing repair commands, unleashing devastating squadron volleys on encroaching enemy strikers) are where the Nebs would really shine. If an enemy wants to focus-fire a support ship over a main ship of the line, that's fine, too.

since I already own 3 of the buggers, Wave 2 is going to mean adding a Garm mon cal and stuffing in as many Bs as possible

Mon Cal Assault (114)

*Garm (25)

*Projectors (6)

*X-17 (6)

[151]

Neb Escort (57) * 3 = 171

*1 Yavaris (5)

[176]

327 total

+5 B-wings

= 397 total

will at least be fun

might have to drop assault to command to get Jan Ors in there, though. Intel + braces seem near auto-include for B-wings

since I already own 3 of the buggers, Wave 2 is going to mean adding a Garm mon cal and stuffing in as many Bs as possible

Mon Cal Assault (114)

*Garm (25)

*Projectors (6)

*X-17 (6)

[151]

Neb Escort (57) * 3 = 171

*1 Yavaris (5)

[176]

327 total

+5 B-wings

= 397 total

will at least be fun

might have to drop assault to command to get Jan Ors in there, though. Intel + braces seem near auto-include for B-wings

Ouch...

Rytgbryt makes a good point, because the ships are maneuvered around the left or right post of the stand you don't exactly pivot. nicely.

Rather than using the ships in a close formation you may want to practice just flying them in a very loose formation and bring them together when you launch and attack.

BTW: Double rams for the win!!

One of my favorite things about this game is the simple fact that real battlefield strategy applies remarkably well.

A smart admiral will not give his plan away with predictable deployment, but deploy in such a way as to confuse his enemy, with his true plan only coalescing on the turn that it comes into effect, say as three Nebulons suddenly converging on their target from seemingly disparate trajectories.

The reason that nebs suffer in the speed demon category, as I'm sure you know, is the 1 shields sides. This makes it very vulnerable if it can't shoot past the enemy in one round.

Using engine techs, while helpful, may still not be enough. I look forward to reading about your results.

In terms of what happens the 1 shield is I think a smaller problem than we should assign it. The difference being the Gladiator has only 1 brace and swaps the second for an Evade, which if the Gladiator is doing what it does best it will rarely use. A Gladiator or suffers somewhat more for a single accuracy than the Nebulon, taking 5 Damage with an accuracy on the Nebulon is a different problem for that ship as compared to the Gladiator.

Assuming both ships have engine techs and a Maneuver Command the Gladiator will use the extra yaw on its main move. The Nebulon can use the Maneuver Command on it's speed 1 move. That's a 90 degree turn in its last 2 movement. So they both end up at speed 4 with 5 yaw. I think if they use a Command the Nebulon has a slight edge because it had just a little more flexibility, where the Engine Techs are kicked off using a command the Gladiator edges out the Neb.

I find it interesting that the Nebulon has almost as good a rear shot as its front. I also, find myself wondering just what the next batch of upgrade cards will cause on their use.

All in all I think this may be one of those areas where players that theorycraft figure out this is sub-optimal, but, where you play games the idea as far as it goes is sound and then comes down to tactics.

All too often as I play my games I realise, that my choices where they add up to 300 points quite often give me quite a fair game against my opponents 300 points. As such, it isn't a game so much about what we are playing but rather how we are playing. Here is the Gladiators one clear advantage over the Nebulon, it's tactical use is without doubt. It's aim is to drive over to your ship and punch it in the face, hard. With out any doubt it does that so very well.

May just have to try playing my 5 Nebulon List and drop one for Engine Techs and some upgrades.....