I wonder, does FFG have a LCG without that 3 cards in the middle there? Anyway, I am not that opposed to that idea, but how likely is it that they will make L5R that way?

There is some departure. Conquest has 5 worlds, for example, that you can struggle for with command icons to collect cards and currency, but you still only actually fight at 3. Likewise, Lord of the Rings does away with 3 cards in the middle in favor of 1 Quest, maybe with a Buffer location, and the staging area, but you're still choosing whether to commit each of your characters to Questing, Defense or Attack.

There's some variation, but I do hope L5R stays away from the underlying structure.

I'm very excited to see FFG bring new ideas to L5R.

I am not excited to see ideas that already exist in their other games reworked for L5R.

Obviously, some of this is inevitable, so it's a matter of degrees.

Like, I can say that all of FFG's games share the underlying "3 Zones" structure. But some of them are more obvious about it than others -- AGoT and Cthulhu both blatantly have 3 and only 3 points of conflict to which to commit your characters in a turn. Conquest expands that a bit by having 5 planets, but you still actually only fight for 3 of them. Netrunner starts with 3 servers to run, but allows (and requires) the Corporate player to build additional servers for various purposes.

Of these 3, Netrunner is the largest departure from the model, perhaps because it was an existing design (although it wouldn't surprise me if someone spotted the similarities and said, "Hey, that seems like a good fit for our house style!").

So, I hope L5R is more like Netrunner in being a departure, than it is like AGoT or Cthulhu.

Actually, some process of early game empire building to grow your territory would be neat. I know L5R had cards that added provinces, but something inherent in the game mechanics might be a welcome innovation, and improve the early game/mid-game/late game distinction.

The question is, are the four provences in L5R not also alike to that meachanic, at least when it comes to the military victory condition. So, would it be such a big leap if players stop fighting over home provinces, but instead over contested territories? It would at least not cripple the player who is not going for a military approach as much as it currently is in L5R.

I do actually think L5R would be well-served by a LCG that focused on resolving multiple flash-point conflicts in a given game (first to win 3 or 5 conflicts / hands / rounds / tricks / whatever) that are played out indepedently. The "roll a giant snowball to crush the other guy to death with" (What is that? A "Doomsday Katamari" model or something?) model that manifested in the L5R CCG is a really played out and unwieldy. It also doesn't reflect how the L5R Stories have ever played out their conflicts either.

Marty Lund

Monkey Clan

The question is, are the four provences in L5R not also alike to that meachanic, at least when it comes to the military victory condition. So, would it be such a big leap if players stop fighting over home provinces, but instead over contested territories? It would at least not cripple the player who is not going for a military approach as much as it currently is in L5R.

Yeah, I mean I think it's just down to execution. Obviously 4 provinces is not inherently that different from 3 foos, but it feels different. Partly, I suspect, this is because of the card flow through the provinces. Your people and holdings are actually representative of your territories, and provinces being destroyed are your fields being burned and towns full of people being wiped out, any one of whom might have been your next great samurai/shugenja/courtier/whatever.

Like I said, some degree of similarity is probably unavoidable. But I hope that in the end it looks more like Netrunner for its departure from the norm than it does just another game in FFG's house style.

Actually the chance for this is about 5%. So you see it every 10th game, since you and your opponent flip 4 cards during turn 1.

This is far from impossible. I would not even call it unlikely, when you think about how many games are played during a tournament.

Cycling on turn one reduces the chance to 0.25% (probably a bit smaller), so every 200th game which is a lot better. But again on a grand tournament a few guys will loose because of this.

How gold is managed is indeed an interesting topic.

Well yeah.

My base for comparison here was MtG... and due to the fact it had just 1 deck, with roughly 33% of the cards being resources, I always saw a greater number of players getting resource screwed in it.

That's why I say the dual deck system is an improvement on it. Granted, it's not perfect (nothing ever is ), but it's an elegant and good improvement

I would find it amusing if they modeled it after Go.

You need to build your "base" but if you do not pay attention to your opponent, he could be knocking on your doorstep and you find yourself with no where to go.

I would find it amusing if they modeled it after Go.

You need to build your "base" but if you do not pay attention to your opponent, he could be knocking on your doorstep and you find yourself with no where to go.

Dude. You'd have to Tenuki at least 3 times in a row for that happen, unless you never completed your base in the first place. You've got no business ignoring heavy stones in a game of Go. Play lightly or own your stones.

It would be neat if they emulated Go in the sense of each player making one move per turn. "I do a bunch of stuff on my turn while you twiddle thumbs," isn't a mechanic I'm huge into lately.

Marty Lund

Monkey Clan

And now that I think about it, I would like a game like the LotR LCG, but instead of it being co-operative, make it competitive. So you are each setting hazards and complications the other player has to beat you to get to *arbitrary honor points* by using Military Might, politics, intrigue and Enlightenment

p.s. Hooray for Ninja emoji!

Actually I like the idea with the 3 struggle points in the middle. It kind of fits for L5R.

Let's say we have three battlefield: Military, Political and Spiritual.

Winning a Struggle on the:

• Military Battlefield allows you to blow up a province of your opponent diminishing his dynasty card draw. Samurai are especially helpful here.
• Spiritual Battlefield allows you to put a Ring into play giving you fancy abilities for the following struggles. Shugenja are especially helpful here.
• Political Battlefield allows you to get an honor token and you take control of the Imperial Favor. Courtier are especially helpful here.

Having 5 rings in play, all the enemies provinces destroyed or X honor token wins you the game.

Actually I like the idea with the 3 struggle points in the middle. It kind of fits for L5R.

Let's say we have three battlefield: Military, Political and Spiritual.

Winning a Struggle on the:

• Military Battlefield allows you to blow up a province of your opponent diminishing his dynasty card draw. Samurai are especially helpful here.
• Spiritual Battlefield allows you to put a Ring into play giving you fancy abilities for the following struggles. Shugenja are especially helpful here.
• Political Battlefield allows you to get an honor token and you take control of the Imperial Favor. Courtier are especially helpful here.

Having 5 rings in play, all the enemies provinces destroyed or X honor token wins you the game.

You take your A Game of Rings and get out of my thread!

Kidding of course. But I do strongly disagree. This is essentially AGoT's Military, Intrigue and Power challenges by other names and with different rewards. Do not want.

It is not necessarily that I want it this way... I was just reading the thread and was surprised how well it fitted. (I never played AGoT by the way just CoC).

I also thing that the game should run of its own merits and don't clone another successful concept so that is basically becomes indistinguishable.

It is not necessarily that I want it this way... I was just reading the thread and was surprised how well it fitted. (I never played AGoT by the way just CoC).

I also thing that the game should run of its own merits and don't clone another successful concept so that is basically becomes indistinguishable.

Ah, I see. Yeah, it would be trivially easy to reskin L5R as AGoT. Given they just launched AGoT 2nd edition, though, I'm not really worried about it.

My biggest fear when I first read the announcement was that they were intending to reskin some other game as "L5R". I'm planning on checking out their GoT because it sounds interesting, but I'm hoping for a completely distinct game.

My biggest fear when I first read the announcement was that they were intending to reskin some other game as "L5R". I'm planning on checking out their GoT because it sounds interesting, but I'm hoping for a completely distinct game.

It will be. All of the LCGs are distinct from each other. I've played them all and playtested for two of them.

I don't necessarily find that to be true. Most of the games share similiarities.

As far as core mechanics, the only things I want to see are Political, Miliary, and Enlightenment victories. Everything else can be tweaked.

I don't necessarily find that to be true. Most of the games share similarities.

Well of course there is similarities, there is similarities between every card game. And a lot of the LCGs share the same designer.

Holy Crap! I just realized that there's a change that the new game might finally put an end to the legacy of the L5R CCG incessantly conflating Honor, Glory, and Status under Personal / Family Honor.

Ah, a man can dream ... for another year and a half anyway ...

Marty Lund

Monkey Clan * Random * Grognard

I don't necessarily find that to be true. Most of the games share similarities.

And a lot of the LCGs share the same designer.

It shows. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but even outside of that designer's work, FFG has a definite "house style."

Holy Crap! I just realized that there's a change that the new game might finally put an end to the legacy of the L5R CCG incessantly conflating Honor, Glory, and Status under Personal / Family Honor.

Ah, a man can dream ... for another year and a half anyway ...

Marty Lund

Monkey Clan * Random * Grognard

I laughed. I remember trying to explain that to people coming from the RPG and failing miserably.

Holy Crap! I just realized that there's a change that the new game might finally put an end to the legacy of the L5R CCG incessantly conflating Honor, Glory, and Status under Personal / Family Honor.

Ah, a man can dream ... for another year and a half anyway ...

Marty Lund

Monkey Clan * Random * Grognard

I laughed. I remember trying to explain that to people coming from the RPG and failing miserably.

Oh, like why the dirtbag Yoritomo has 3 Personal Honor?

Holy Crap! I just realized that there's a change that the new game might finally put an end to the legacy of the L5R CCG incessantly conflating Honor, Glory, and Status under Personal / Family Honor.

Ah, a man can dream ... for another year and a half anyway ...

Marty Lund

Monkey Clan * Random * Grognard

I laughed. I remember trying to explain that to people coming from the RPG and failing miserably.

"You see, these 'Battle Maidens' are part of a clan that has lower social standing and an alien notion of Bushido, but they have the word 'Maiden' on the card so they have to be able to play 'Strength of Purity,' which requires 3 Personal Honor."

I still can't keep a straight face on that one.

Marty Lund

Monkey Clan * Random * Grognard

Holy Crap! I just realized that there's a change that the new game might finally put an end to the legacy of the L5R CCG incessantly conflating Honor, Glory, and Status under Personal / Family Honor.

Ah, a man can dream ... for another year and a half anyway ...

Marty Lund

Monkey Clan * Random * Grognard

I laughed. I remember trying to explain that to people coming from the RPG and failing miserably.

"You see, these 'Battle Maidens' are part of a clan that has lower social standing and an alien notion of Bushido, but they have the word 'Maiden' on the card so they have to be able to play 'Strength of Purity,' which requires 3 Personal Honor."

I still can't keep a straight face on that one.

Marty Lund

Monkey Clan * Random * Grognard

This Scorpion ninja assassin won't poison targets for someone who has demonstrated they will stoop to dishonorable means to overcome their enemies. That's why he has an honor requirement of 0.

I cannot possibly imagine FFG keeping the Dishonor victory condition. Unlike AEG, they don't tend to pigeonhole themselves into game mechanics that are miserable for all but a handful of players in the world.

Real talk, this guy

http://imperialassembly.com/oracle/#cardid=11767

I wasn't keeping up with the story as much as I would have liked, but this guy as 3 personal honor. I never trusted him.

New players will ready that sentence and wonder what I am talking about.