painting help: washes coming out horrible

By Quarrel, in X-Wing

I continue to have terrible luck washing my repaints. It just doesn't want to pull into the cracks.

Take a look at this latest experiment:

WUkvxtn.jpg

This is Citadel's Nuln Oil (often recommended), diluted about 1:3 with water with a tiny amount of dish detergent (like 3-4 drops in a half-cup of water) and brushed evenly over a repainted K-wing. The wash is actively pulling out of the crevices and drying in puddly blobs.

(The point of the detergent is to lower the surface tension and get the wash to flow into cracks more easily -- it's something I saw recommended in another thread.)

I've tried full-strength washes. They behave the same, only they make much darker blotches.

I've tried Vallejo washes. They behave like Citadel's.

I've tried diluting with various mixes of water and isopropyl alcohol. Those blotch worse, and they partially dissolve the fresh paint underneath even when it's completely dry.

Surely some of you master painters have solved this problem? Help!

I never water down my nuln oil.
Though, I've never had anything happen like this. No idea what to tell ya.

I don't ever use wash on my X-wing repaints. The time I tried doing it on my X-wing (I painted it after Wedge's, so it's white) it came out tan after the wash.(Like skin color tan, not the tan that FFG use's for the default).

Best advice I could give you is to take a very small brush and dip it into either some black or dark grey, and then wipe it on a towel some, and then dry brush the black paint on thinly to get the same affect.

I never water down my nuln oil.

Do you wash over entire areas, or do you hit individual details with it?

I never water down my nuln oil.

Do you wash over entire areas, or do you hit individual details with it?

Usually over the whole area. Though I've done small bits before.

With my Runewars and Imperial Assault figures, I had best luck when washing over the whole figure relatively evenly. But I did not find that to be the best approach to X-Wing figures. I may do a light wash over the whole thing, but then I will get a very heavy wash (like, basically just super watered-down black, so not really a wash) and painted it into the crevices with a fine brush. If it's watered down enough, and if the figure is dry when you apply it to the cracks, it will sit right in the cracks and make them nice and dark.

Too much dish soap. I do 1 drop per LITER 3-4 in a cup is way too much. My guess is your wash is getting globby because the dish soap is sudsing up.

Rinse the model in hot water before trying again.

Is your base color flat? If it is try using a satin or gloss varnish before the wash. The gloss or semi gloss coating prevents the wash from soaking into the paint. You can also try an enamel wash from AMMO by Mig or one from AK Interactive. Or make one yourself by using 1 part paint to 10 parts thinner. Use a mild odorless thinner. I think Mona Lisa is carried by Catans or Michaels.

You can also try a drop of alcohol into your wash. This will also break surface tension.

You can also try a PIGMA 005 pen by Sakura. Check at Pat Catans or Michaels. The superfine tip will allow you draw in the panel lines w/o resorting to a wash.

The satin varnish fills in the roughness of the base color. This allows you to manipulate the wash, removing it from the surfaces but keeping it in the recesses.

Let me know if this helps.

Shake the pots like mad, place them in plastic baggies first in case of leaking though. The washes tend to settle a bit.

Other than that the Tamiya panel liner is pretty good but it's not acrylic based.

Try magic wash instead (half Future floor wax or Pledge with Future Shine and half isopropyl alcohol). It'll take a bit of tinkering to get the right ratio of ink to magic wash, but the stuff is wonderful.

I mostly just use India ink with mine.

Did you scrub them with soap and water beforehand to remove any oils and release agents? When I repaint mine I put them on a stem so that I don't have to touch the model, seems to work pretty well.

Don't use isopropyl alcohol unless you want to remove the paint, sometimes when I botch a small part I dip a q-tip in isopropyl alcohol and scrub the citadel paint off.

OP WAIT.

Just pass it off as a "Rebels" style paintjob. You're cool. You're fine. This can still work.

If I'm doing a heavy wash, I'll dry off the brush and go back and soak up the bigger pools over the flat spots immediately afterwards. No idea why yours won't go into the cracks though. You can also try the Army Painter style of washes, I've had good luck with both. I also let mine "dry" pointed up about 45 degrees so the wash flows backwards. I then do the same thing as before, use a dry brush to soak up the extra coming off the back of the ship. Takes a little practice but I think they come out better than just flat washing the whole ship.

I have had good results just using the wash in the panel lines, and using a dry brush over the rest of the model. I have had problems washing the whole thing even, as it seems to leave a bunch of weird spots like you have there.

You need to shake the was well and don't water GW ones down, also don't apply too heavily or where it pools will crystallize and eat the paint.

It's also possible there is a finish on the model that is affecting the way the wash is performing. You could try hitting the models with an undercoat before painting them. This shouldn't be necessary, but I can't be sure because I haven't tried to repaint any FFG models.

Striaght up nuln oil is what i use, no watering down. Then reapply original paint to panels and the like. Next, I highlight with one lighter step, and a final highlight one step further, just on select edges. No varnish, as it kills details , other tha on the cockpit.

Everybody already beat me to the good suggestions, but let me put in a second vote for:

-Future Floor Wax (about 1/3 volume of your wash)

-Using concentrated was with a fine tipped brush (different technique than the wax)

-washing models (always a good idea)

In all my years of painting, I've never seen that effect. Something must have gone terribly wrong with the paint, though I struggle to come up with a good reson why it behaves like that. I do know that wash can come out glossy if it haven't been shaken properly.

However you should never add soap to an acrylic wash like GWs, if you wish to thin them, just use regular water. Another thing that helps is to give the model a coat of gloss varnish before the shading step as this helps the paint to seep into and stay in every nook and cranny the model have.

Here's some general tips:
- Wash the model before painting . While I have never needed to do so with any X-wing models, it's always a good idea. Various release agents and other unwanted substances may still cling to the model. Resin models are by far the worst offender on this subject.
- Prime the model . Whether you use a rattle can, airbrush or regular brushwork, some kind of undercoat is always good to start with as it helps the subsequent layers of paint adhere.
- Many thin layers . Yeah, you've heard it before and I'm going to repeat it once more, several thin layers are always better than one thick glob of paint.
- Gloss varnish for washing . As stated above, gloss varnish is a good tool when washing a model. If using oil washes, a layer of gloss varnish is even more important!
- Sealing the model in stages . Sometimes a model needs additional layers of varnish to 'seal' the work you've already done. This is very common when using gloss varnish, as while wash loves gloss varnish, subsequent paint layers do not. Spray some matte varnish to make the model paintable again.

*Edit* I missed or misread the first time, but diluting a wash with water in a 1:3 ratio is too much. With that much water you are approaching the point where the medium in the paint is so diluted that it no longer can adhere to the model. The soap certainly did not help either.

Edited by MacrossVF1

I think you're trying too hard dude. Undercoat your model in the chosen colour. Apply the wash (nuln oil) either undiluted or 2:1 wash:water for a slighter light effect and apply the wash using a fine detail brush only to the recesses and a 1/2 cm or so I to the panels. After it's completely dry, dry brush the same base colour over the entire model. When you go back and pick out the detail you can highlight the edges of the panels with a 2:1 mix of our base colour and white to help the model pop a little if you require.

Follow this method and there's no reason I can think of you want achieve the effect you want with minimal faffing

I'll note that I've only used Future Floor Wax with home-made washes made from GW inks and/or paints, never with GW washes.

I continue to have terrible luck washing my repaints. It just doesn't want to pull into the cracks.

Take a look at this latest experiment:

WUkvxtn.jpg

This is Citadel's Nuln Oil (often recommended), diluted about 1:3 with water with a tiny amount of dish detergent (like 3-4 drops in a half-cup of water) and brushed evenly over a repainted K-wing. The wash is actively pulling out of the crevices and drying in puddly blobs.

(The point of the detergent is to lower the surface tension and get the wash to flow into cracks more easily -- it's something I saw recommended in another thread.)

I've tried full-strength washes. They behave the same, only they make much darker blotches.

I've tried Vallejo washes. They behave like Citadel's.

I've tried diluting with various mixes of water and isopropyl alcohol. Those blotch worse, and they partially dissolve the fresh paint underneath even when it's completely dry.

Surely some of you master painters have solved this problem? Help!

White base coat is probably your biggest issue.

But never water down nuln oil. You just dilute the magic of the juice.

For anything not white, just liberally paint the nuln oil all over, shake it off if you want to. If you notice it pooling anywhere spread it out again if you want to. Sometimes the pooling will be in areas which would be shaded anyway, so I wil leave it. That's just experience.

Watering down washes shouldn't be the issue, and is a perfectly acceptable technique depending on the desired results.

If you merely want to darken the recesses without changing the higher areas, washes aren't the best choice however - they're meant to cover the whole area, but have a larger impact on the lower parts (creating shadow effects in a very gradual way). Inks, or simply watered down regular paint, is better suited for merely getting to the gaps.

Water-based paints can be repelled by greasy areas of models, so cleaning them with some water and soap may be useful. Watering down paints with alcohol rather than water can also work from what I've heard, but it's not something I've tried myself.

Try magic wash instead (half Future floor wax or Pledge with Future Shine and half isopropyl alcohol).

After getting more advice and doing more Googling, dropping the surface tension looks like the reason the wash is spreading itself so far. I've also found alcohol tends to soften the underlying paint.

If you merely want to darken the recesses without changing the higher areas, washes aren't the best choice however - they're meant to cover the whole area, but have a larger impact on the lower parts (creating shadow effects in a very gradual way). Inks, or simply watered down regular paint, is better suited for merely getting to the gaps.

tiny

Looks like I can't avoid the inking work (except with a Micron pen, maybe) and I'll have to weather it with a second, rustier wash.