Change the game how you want but the win conditions are what give the clans their identities. Without the alternate win conditions... they're all a bunch of vanilla factions (and don't you dare rename the clans into factions).

Scorpion and Crane don't win the way Crab and Lion do. Phoenix and Dragon don't win the same way Shadowlands do.

Make the provinces be like plots or objectives if you must. Do away with dueling if you absolutely have to (although you've already proven that dueling can work via star wars's edge battles). I can even abide the merging of dynasty and Fate decks, But please, please, please do not remove the multiple win conditions,

Thank you

I like the idea to make the provinces the contested terirtories and thus to win them by different means (which could pretty much be the old approaches military, honour/politics, or enlightenment). Dishonour as lose condition seemed always off, but it could be used to remove success token on the territories. Also, with the clans not fighting to defend their provinces but gaining contested territories one could emulate the conquest in the colonies.

BUT, do not touch duels, my Crane decks should have duels in them, otherwise it will not be L5R for me! Sure, change the mechanics that it will fit for the LCG, but do not remove it completely.

Dishonour as lose condition seemed always off,

For the Crane maybe. You have honour enough. But For us Spider clan...

Wasn't there a card that completly hosed honour wins? (I believe it was called "Breach of etiquette")

Change the game how you want but the win conditions are what give the clans their identities. Without the alternate win conditions... they're all a bunch of vanilla factions (and don't you dare rename the clans into factions).

Scorpion and Crane don't win the way Crab and Lion do. Phoenix and Dragon don't win the same way Shadowlands do.

Make the provinces be like plots or objectives if you must. Do away with dueling if you absolutely have to (although you've already proven that dueling can work via star wars's edge battles). I can even abide the merging of dynasty and Fate decks, But please, please, please do not remove the multiple win conditions,

Thank you

Umm how about they keep the game mostly the same, but just balance it better. I'd prefer fewer clans to be honest.

Dishonour as lose condition seemed always off,

For the Crane maybe. You have honour enough. But For us Spider clan...

Wasn't there a card that completly hosed honour wins? (I believe it was called "Breach of etiquette")

Oh, trust me I have played my fair share of honour/dishonour decks and have won games with that (often enough against dishonour decks which slowed me to reach my honour goal, but also got rather deep on their own honour). But it was always problematic, with the shadowlands back in the day around who could not be dishonoured, and thus the scorpion players who wanted to win turnaments that way, had to hope not to get paired against shadowlands. Or against pure honour runner it could mean going into time outs since the game was a complete stalemate. So, it was never very elegant implemented into the game, and always just lead to issues.

Umm how about they keep the game mostly the same, but just balance it better. I'd prefer fewer clans to be honest.

Yeah, I hope most of the changes are in the way of streamlining.

I also wouldn't mind seeing less of a death spiral for losing provinces, though. Various editions relied on cards to balance this, but I think it's generally a better design solution to not tie "being closer to victory" with "having more resources" -- in this case, referring to reducing your opponent's "hand size" as you destroyed provinces.

I 100% agree they need to keep in all the win conditions. I think they will, most of the other LCGs have multiple or asymmetrical win conditions. At most maybe they adjust the numbers for honor so that you dishonor at 0 rather than needing to go negative (so they can have a really slick honor counter).

I also wouldn't mind seeing less of a death spiral for losing provinces, though. Various editions relied on cards to balance this, but I think it's generally a better design solution to not tie "being closer to victory" with "having more resources" -- in this case, referring to reducing your opponent's "hand size" as you destroyed provinces.

That could be a nice change and probably not too hard to implement. Thematically I like the intensity of making the final stand at your only remaining province, but mechanically there's probably a better way.

Change the game how you want but the win conditions are what give the clans their identities. Without the alternate win conditions... they're all a bunch of vanilla factions (and don't you dare rename the clans into factions).

Scorpion and Crane don't win the way Crab and Lion do. Phoenix and Dragon don't win the same way Shadowlands do.

Make the provinces be like plots or objectives if you must. Do away with dueling if you absolutely have to (although you've already proven that dueling can work via star wars's edge battles). I can even abide the merging of dynasty and Fate decks, But please, please, please do not remove the multiple win conditions,

Thank you

Umm how about they keep the game mostly the same, but just balance it better. I'd prefer fewer clans to be honest.

out of curiosity, which group of fans would you advocate screwing? mind you, with 2 years of attenuation, there might not be a substantial body of fans to screw, but i'm curious who you think is substantially valueless enough to the game that they can be thrown away.

Why fewer clans? Look at all the factions in 40k conquest (7, soon to be 9) and game of thrones 2nd ed. (8)

I do hope they get rid of those roman gaijin

I'm agnostic about multiple win conditions. The race to see if you could honor out before dying seems important, but enlightenment wins less so. Enlightenment is also really hard to design for, IMO. I'd just as soon have the rings be good cards that are hard to play, and help you win in other areas, or even just be philosophical ideas that aren't cards at all. Powerful cards with high opportunity costs kind of have their own problems.

I never liked Dishonor because it seemed like it produced an even worse Death Spiral unless the victim's cards had no honor requirements. So against most decks it was a pretty negative experience by denying you the chance to even play your cards, and against others, it was literally useless.

Actually, some kind of victory point system would be cool, where you would accumulate points by knocking out provinces, gaining honor (and maybe), reducing opponents' honor and playing rings. There was something like that in the multiplayer expansion, and I'd love to see good multiplayer without player elimination be something that can be played out of the box.

Why fewer clans? Look at all the factions in 40k conquest (7, soon to be 9) and game of thrones 2nd ed. (8)

I do hope they get rid of those roman gaijin

I don't think you need to worry about those guys.

I *think* they're a part of Burning Sands and not L5R, thus, FFG couldn't grab them unless they also bought LBS.

Remove dueling and I quit.

I agree, Honor and Dishonor shoukd stay. Enlightenment can afford to go... It never made sense to me antways.

I agree. For as big as Rokugan was, bringing in so many gaijin watered down the flavor when there was plenty of space to abuse.

Why fewer clans? Look at all the factions in 40k conquest (7, soon to be 9) and game of thrones 2nd ed. (8)

I do hope they get rid of those roman gaijin

Me want multiple win-conditions. It help keep games fresh. Give players chance to build how they please.

Plus it would help ease in the old players with familiarity and make transition less painful.

Last thing anyone here truly wants is to alienate the old fanbase who stuck with this game thick and thin.

@Robin Graves: How bout no. We keep Yodotai because we should keep WHOLE world intact, yes-yes.

No cherry-picking should be tolerated. Me not advocating we immediately have Yodotai show-up, but leave it as potential and proper neutral faction option for later installments. Same goes with Naga, Nezumi, Fudo, Ronin, Ashigaru, etc, etc.

Dishonor hasn't stopped you playing your characters since a while due to at first some cards then a rule that made you had no HR if your opponent ever make you loose one honor point. But yes, it would be nice to keep different victory conditions. It gave different avenues to the game, it shaped it. L5r was all about those victory conditions at time. Reducing it down to less would make it a AGOT-like.