An ongoing story driven by player interaction is what pulled me into this game. I have never won tournements it is an essencial component. Though I do not know that the current team (In its entirety) is neccissary.
Something can be said for injecting new blood into the game. On the other hand I am also not convinced that Bringing back old blood would be right either. Likely a combination would be helpful.
As long as story direction is rethought, I say keep the writers. I'm happy with the writing recently.
Most issues with the storyline came from overburdening the story team with results, leading to many a burnout. Don't do that again. Get smarter with the tournament prizes.
A lot of the issues with the story can also be blamed on the following:
* glut of results to include (name a card, koku auctions, every regional and national event, global tournaments, annual Jeweled Championships beyond Topaz...)
* prizes being determined by entities other than Story Team (e.g. 10 Eggs of P'an Ku)
* an almost two year stretch where the story team was effectively two people - and one was beginning work on the novel
As long as story direction is rethought, I say keep the writers. I'm happy with the writing recently.
Most issues with the storyline came from overburdening the story team with results, leading to many a burnout. Don't do that again. Get smarter with the tournament prizes.
That said, ST had been doing well wrapping up some of the older prizes--which I appreciate seeing.
But, yes, being smarter with tourney prizes would be good. Eliminating them would not be. I continue to spend money on L5R *because* I can point to things in the game that *I* did at official events. It is immensely gratifying. Sueism is problematic, sure, but player recognition is always good.
i really hope that they stay with the format of the monthly fictions.
The overburdening of tournament results was indeed a messy thing.
Personally, I'd advocate for a more "pyramid-like" organization. Meaning, for example, a major tournament gets to decide who the next Emerald Champion is.... but instead of picking from any available character, the winner gets to choose from a pool of characters picked from the winners of smaller tournaments.
Magic showed what happened when you give players a supposedly interactive story, then yank it out from under them. We call it New Phyrexia now.
Stories yes. Same story team ... not so sure about that. I actually think that the community needs to play a more active role in creating content and curating good stories with FFG rewarding successful fiction in the same way that tournament wins are rewarded. Fiction is non-core but essential and therefore doing it in-house doesn't make a lot of strategy sense for FFG.
Keep Robert Denton please, his fictions are awesome.
I advocate for the three that were most active in trying to connect with the players they felt were being disserviced and tried to make good on promises thier predeccesors amd upper managment prissed us, but struggled to deliver. They deserve a shake as I doubt they saw this coming.
Spooky Denton, CT Hand and Max Lemaire have been very active in supporting player enthusiasm on the forums.
This is me adding my tinder to the bonfire and putting my word in for these people to stay on Fantasy Flight's payroll and continue their work.
There is a HUGE and wide field of possibility between the "every tournament has a story prize" and there are no story prizes. I feel confident a balance could be reached.
Indeed. Knocking down the story prize bloat that had been keeping the ST from getting story arcs and plots going would be a huge plus.
But the notion of dropping the story beyond some flavor is incredibly bad.
The comparison with FFG's other games doesn't hold much water either.
First because most of their biggest game settings (except possibly Netrunner, not sure) are not theirs in the first place. Martin (and HBO), Disney, the Tolkien Estate and Game Workshop all might have some slight amount of objections to FFG creating stories for those games. At the opposite end of the setting, the Cthulhu mythos is basically an open-source setting at this point and so FFG's work would get lost in the shuffle of everyone else producing Mythos stories.
Second , because, with the exception of LOTR, most of those settings already have their own ongoing storylines being handled by other people. Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones got a TV series and novel series both ongoing. Star Wars is spamming us with a-movie-a-year release schedule starting December. Game Workshop last I heard is publishing Warhammer stories. And the mythos, as already noted, is open source so constantly getting tons of new stories.
Doesn't leave much of a point of comparison. Netrunner was a short-lived game that never had much story and certainly never relied on it in any way. L5R is a twenty-years behemoth whose entire reputation is built on its story and story interaction. Comparing how FFG treated the two is not a wise plan.
Edited by HimotoEdit: nevermind
Edited by SashmielI am relatively new to the L5R franchise, I've been playing the rpg for a couple of months now and really researching the lore and then this happens i hope they don't completely change the history of Rokugan, i was just getting really into it, that being said i kind of hope they give the CCG/LCG players a little less influence on the rpg story line as from what I've seen not every card game player, participates in the RPG and vice-versa; I say this as some of the choices made by the tournament winners seem a little nonsensical.
The original Netrunner, which had one expansion and then a sort of second.
(And it appears they don't own that setting either - Wizard still has the setting, they just have the license for the card game)
So L5R would appear to be the first LCG setting for which FFG actually own the entire brand and setting, making comparison with their other settings moot.
Edited by HimotoI understand now. However, it would be important to point out it is the Android setting, which Netrunner is now in. That was thiers originally and developed in a board game as well as novels. It is still being explored and elaborated on through the card flavor texts an inserts.
I can trust them to give it a go.
Additionally, players have both voted on to introduce some addition to the game. Check out Unplugged tour and the Chronos protocol. Also, a Champion helped design a card called Architect.
Edited by Sashmiel[This part's actually me, but I borked the quote tags.]
They're taking two years off. I hope they take the time to consider killing off some sacred cows, including whether a storyline outside of what's communicated in flavor text and art is even necessary, and whether it need be interactive.
This is OTF:
Flory couldn't have phrased this part more delicately? How about we no kill "sacred cows" so players of L5R aren't enraged. There are bound to be some raw nerves due to this change, best not to aggravate them yes-yes.
I'm really hoping for a fresh start, more in line with FFG's priorities. Part of that is putting the game first.
Hopefully FFG doesn't completely prioritize story/mechanics over mechanics/story. As me personally wouldn't want to alienate the old player base who stuck with L5R thick and thin.
Again, not going to be delicate here, but the old player base is exactly the group who will ask for stuff to be preserved that maybe shouldn't be (and in fairness, will ask for some stuff to be preserved which absolutely should be). The most loyal can also be the most fanatical. I hope FFG takes a step back and considers what's best for the game and for their customers going forward, not for AEG's customers.
To the extent that interactive story pushed cards and mechanics into the game that otherwise wouldn't have been there? I hope that stops completely. I don't care about storyline awards that much if they only affect web fiction or whatever, but I definitely don't want the card pool impacted by these events. I know FFG does design a card tournaments, but that can also easily be a case of, "...and personality will go into the slot slated for a card of that clan, anyway."
That being said, having been involved at various levels with AEG games over the years, I've observed that clan loyalty and story concerns can easily eclipse rational discussions of the card pool. I can't count the number of times I've seen over the years arguments like, "That card's not broken, we earned it!" or "That card's balanced because it helps my clan!" or "It's okay that this card's crazy, because its effects happen in the storyline!" Not phrased explicitly as such, but that's the subtext. So an unambiguous turn toward the primacy of design and gameplay over storyline is, I think, for the good.
So, game first. Storyline a distant second.
We don't yet know how much of a new game it's going to be, though. The language in the announcement says the game's going on hiatus, and is being relaunched. I expect something in the neighborhood of the Doomtown or VS. System redesign, or AGoT 2nd, not a whole new game.
No-no, L5R CCG will not be compatible with L5R LCG from a mechanical perspective as stated in article. So it is being changed mechanically.
There are many areas in which the game rules could be revised without altering its essence; in fact, there are many areas in which it has already seen changes over its 20 year lifespan. A few more isn't suddenly going to make it "not L5R."
Depends on what is changed.
Me advocate and hope that FFG take "baby steps" instead of "giant leaps" so that transition be much more smooth and less painful for older players. Whether it be story, gameplay or even RPG.
"Not compatible," is not necessarily, "unrecognizable." It could mean anything from, "All the clan symbols are being redesigned, so the new clan symbols don't match the old!" to "The combat system is completely different, and characters no longer have Force and Chi stats!" Arguably, various editions of AEG's L5R weren't compatible with each other; L5R also wasn't compatible with 7th Sea. I'm sure FFG's game will be somewhere in between there.
I think what is a "giant leap" and what's a "baby step" is, in many cases going to depend on individual players. I commend you to my thread on essential game mechanics:
https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/188115-core-mechanics-the-essence-of-the-game/
It's not l5r, but here are samples of the Android world.
I understand now. However, it would be important to point out it is the Android setting, which Netrunner is now in. That was thiers originally and developed in a board game as well as novels. It is still being explored and elaborated on through the card flavor texts an inserts.
I can trust them to give it a go.
Additionally, players have both voted on to introduce some addition to the game. Check out Unplugged tour and the Chronos protocol. Also, a Champion helped design a card called Architect.
Netrunner is actually a pretty good model for the new L5R, I think.
It's clear that gameplay is of primary concern, which is what I want, but there's also the chance for players to be involved in new developments, even though there isn't much in the way of fiction, per se.
It's also worth noting that I'm sure FFG will do an RPG (and they've basically said as much). There'll be a lot more room for story development there, as well as in tie-in novels. No need to saddle the card game with it.
Edited by BD FloryStories yes. Same story team ... not so sure about that. I actually think that the community needs to play a more active role in creating content and curating good stories with FFG rewarding successful fiction in the same way that tournament wins are rewarded. Fiction is non-core but essential and therefore doing it in-house doesn't make a lot of strategy sense for FFG.
Fan fiction is one thing, and people are welcome to do that.
But I truly hope FFG doesn't crowd source material.
Let's be clear, since it seems to be lost on some of the mechanics-first crowd:
The mechanics were not what made people stick with L5R over the span of two decades. The mechanics were often awful, arbitrary, unbalanced, and absurd.
The value of the intellectual property, therefore, is not in the gameplay in and of itself, but in the deep investment in the setting.
FFG will almost certainly do a better job on the mechanical end. That's not something I've seriously seen questioned.
But if they neglect the immersive end, then why buy the IP in the firstplace, since that's literally the most valuable part of it?
If you bring in tournaments influence story, then you have to talk mechanics.
FFG doubtfully bought this because it was a cash cow that would run itself. I am certain they knew before they offered they were also buying the fanbase, as ruthless as we can get. No other group has rattled the roof of a venue before play.
But if they neglect the immersive end, then why buy the IP in the firstplace, since that's literally the most valuable part of it?
They can make a good card game. There's always been some elements of the game that were great, despite the garbage that accreted around the core over various edition changes and dozens of cards-as-story-prizes.
The "immersive end," I assume meaning story given context, can easily be redeployed to support RPGs, tie-in fiction separate from the card game, or other areas. We basically know an RPG is in the works. It's probably a safe bet given what they've done with Android that novels are on the way (and those novels don't have much, if anything, to do with any kind of interactive tournament results, they just happen to be set in the same world).
The IP is (and can be) much bigger than just, "That card game with story," or even, "That story driven card game."
Let's be clear, since it seems to be lost on some of the mechanics-first crowd:
It's not "the mechanics-first crowd". at least in this thread. I suspect even the bulk of the mechanic-first crowd, by and large, want a good degree of story and story interaction kept, though not necessarily the present one.
The "No story beside flavor and art, mechanics forever" attitude is pretty much a single poster.
The "No story beside flavor and art, mechanics forever" attitude is pretty much a single poster.
If you're not referring to me, apologies, but it should be noted that I said I hoped FFG would consider how important story was outside of art and flavor text. I didn't say I thought they should go on to eliminate it, necessarily. I am also not necessarily opposed to eliminating it, and hope they won't be afraid to make that call if it's the right one.
" They're taking two years off. I hope they take the time to consider killing off some sacred cows, including whether a storyline outside of what's communicated in flavor text and art is even necessary, and whether it need be interactive."
I might have allowed some rhetorical drift into my later posts, and if so, that wasn't my intent.
I am unabashedly of the mechanics-first crowd, though. But as I've said in this very thread, something on the level of what FFG is doing for Netrunner would be fine with me, and is probably about the upper limit of what I would want to see tied into the card game. I'd just as soon more in depth story stuff got pushed into RPG products and novels.
It's also worth noting that while FFG is a big company as game companies go, their resources aren't unlimited, and I'd like them to pay professional writers for their work. If that means only publishing fiction that they sell, rather than putting it out for free online? I hope they do that.