I know theres a lot of hate for the spider, but heres the thing: spider has the most active fanbase of all the clans, and if they hadn't spend the last 5 years being mechanically crippled by terrible design they likely would have been the most popular. so relegating them to the bottom of the list doesn't make a lot of sense if you're trying to bring over as many of the legacy fans as possible. this all presupposes that they're not using the onyx plot, where the spider having taken over the empire and are ruling it.

I'd like to see your numbers.

clan dinner and clan forum. the clan dinner numbers are, unfortunately, on the AEG forum which isn't up right now but it was the largest by a good number. the spider clan forum is the most active as well.

You also forgot that Spider was the most played faction in the Spring Kotei Season. Even when they were in the competitive pits they still had a tremendous support following them.

People love their villains alright.

Spider Clan: Even when we're bad we are still badass...

BUT!!!! AEG was happy to wipe people out in the past.

Well, that was one of the few nails in the 7th Sea coffin, wiping an entire faction.

The Spider had the highest attendance. But they also achieved that when (1) they were getting special storyline options (corruption) that no one else was; (2) those storyline options were supposed to be one of the things that the Spider were created to get away from; (3) it had been announced that the Spider/Jigoku were going to take over the Empire and were going to be the center of the story; (4) this was also one of the things the Spider were supposed to be created to get away from (having a unique storyline role v. being "one of the clans"); and (5) it looked like that the Spider were going to end up as the Horde. Oh, and the plurality of Spider players voted for going full Jigoku. That sounds more like an argument for having Shadowlands Horde as a playable faction than anything (and also that giving a Clan a big role in the plot will make it more popular and its players more excited).

I think we will see the original seven Clan War era clans, with Mantis and Spider coming in the first two Deluxe expansions.

People look at this as a Clan is going to get cut odds are if we go by current story line Mantis are it odds are we will have them around in some shape or form. So it's really about where FFG picks up the story If the go back to the beginning then it's seven clans if they pick up where AEG kicked us to the curb 8 clans. I have no doubt there will be a story line to the game that gets us from one set to the next. I think the biggest change will happen on the fate side of the deck as there was a lot of wasted cardboard and from teaching people to play this game the hardest part to learn.

Biggest thing to remember is right now a lot of these questions even FFG doesn't know the answer to yet. So even if they wanted to say clans X,Y,Z are cut or safe they don't know yet. This is just as new for a lot of them as it is for us. These decisions will likely occupy a lot of the next few months for them.

I dont think it is some herculean task to launch the game with the 9 clans. Crab/Crane/Dragon/Lion/Mantis/Phoenix/Scorpion/Spider/Unicorn.

Sometime in the first couple expansions launch Shadowlands, and keep a semi-steady influx of Neutral cards for Unaligned, Naga, and Ratlings cards.

Biggest thing to remember is right now a lot of these questions even FFG doesn't know the answer to yet. So even if they wanted to say clans X,Y,Z are cut or safe they don't know yet. This is just as new for a lot of them as it is for us. These decisions will likely occupy a lot of the next few months for them.

Which, despite complaints, a two year gulf is not unreasonable.

I dont think it is some herculean task to launch the game with the 9 clans. Crab/Crane/Dragon/Lion/Mantis/Phoenix/Scorpion/Spider/Unicorn.

Sometime in the first couple expansions launch Shadowlands, and keep a semi-steady influx of Neutral cards for Unaligned, Naga, and Ratlings cards.

Yes! But no roman gaijin,, those are just silly...

I would love to see some Nonhuman stuff.

Biggest thing to remember is right now a lot of these questions even FFG doesn't know the answer to yet. So even if they wanted to say clans X,Y,Z are cut or safe they don't know yet. This is just as new for a lot of them as it is for us. These decisions will likely occupy a lot of the next few months for them.

Which, despite complaints, a two year gulf is not unreasonable.

Exactly. It will take them time to get all of the assets, get organized, allocate staff, make design and direction decisions, design initial card pool, start playtest, run the playtest, finalize cards, send to printer, print, ship, etc. It's not even a full two years either considering GenCon 2017 is Aug 17-20.

Yeah, that's about a month or 2 of planning, a year of designing and play testing while artwork and other fun stuff gets organized in the background.

FFG know what they are doing and have a strong team leading the way.

I just want FFG to know that I support them fully in this awesome IP release!

So FFG now makes games based on ÏPs* from several other game compagnies: GW, WOTC, AEG...

*Yes they actualy have the IP for L5R, I know.

That kind of makes them tops.

Oh yeah! Now if we could just get Konami to sell yugioh to FFG...

Altough this thing of letting other companies making games with your IP seems to be happening more and more. Wizkids has an x-wing style game and a a dicemasters expansion* based on wotc's Dungeons and Dragons setting!

Altough this thing of letting other companies making games with your IP seems to be happening more and more. Wizkids has an x-wing style game and a a dicemasters expansion* based on wotc's Dungeons and Dragons setting!

I am not surprised. If it fits together, it is a classic win-win situation. The one company gets a strong IP to promote their game to make more money and the other company gets their IP promoted and makes more money from royalties.

Also fans of both the IP and the game always get a nerdgasm when something like this happens... So triple win situation?

Oh yeah! Now if we could just get Konami to sell yugioh to FFG...

I can see it now. FFG's Yugioh, with only 47 of the 120 cards in each cycle banned from regular tournament play, or at least limited to 1 per deck. Only 47 banned cards a cycle would still be far less than the sheer number Konami ban. A core set where less than half the cards you buy are tournament legal!

Hell, the TV show went through a phase of having the main characters use 'Pot of Greed' every episode, despite that card being the most banned OP card ever.

Hell, the main upgrade FFG could give to Yugioh would be to stop making cards that need 3 paragraphs of size 1 font text on them. Seriously, Konami can't design cards to save themselves.

^At least they ain't Bandai...

The Spider had the highest attendance. But they also achieved that when (1) they were getting special storyline options (corruption) that no one else was; (2) those storyline options were supposed to be one of the things that the Spider were created to get away from; (3) it had been announced that the Spider/Jigoku were going to take over the Empire and were going to be the center of the story; (4) this was also one of the things the Spider were supposed to be created to get away from (having a unique storyline role v. being "one of the clans"); and (5) it looked like that the Spider were going to end up as the Horde. Oh, and the plurality of Spider players voted for going full Jigoku. That sounds more like an argument for having Shadowlands Horde as a playable faction than anything (and also that giving a Clan a big role in the plot will make it more popular and its players more excited).

In retrospect, allowing the playerbase such full control of their clans' paths was a huge mistake. There was absolutely no chance the Spider Clan players would give up any of the many different, contradictory things about the Spider Clan if you asked them. Their demands, namely that the Spider Clan be disproportionately featured in the story and preferably never seeing their big names getting their comeuppance (Daigotsu died and literally became a god and we are eating it up without an ounce of critique), were really hard on the community. That's the problem with being “The Villain.” It's not an identity, but a role in the story. One that demands a lot of attention from the writer, because, you know, they're who the story is about needing to be stopped.

On the other hand, Jigoku is a big part of the setting that still requires some representation. The Spider Clan was an attempt to fill that hole without it becoming the center of attention at all times. A clan that has roots in, and a somewhat uncomfortable connection to, the Realm of Evil. But to do that, AEG would have to do the unthinkable and actually ignore the demands of its customers (generally not a good idea, but when your customer base is geeks…).

^ This

Is also why there was a storm in their forums when people thought the game was gonna take a leap forward in time, with the Spider automatically winning the throne. No one really liked it (even the Spider players IIRC... it's one thing to win the throne, another to just being handed it in a silver platter with zero effort)...

Ultimately, I think the Spider work as a playable Clan... but only with some big sacrifices. Losing the ability to run to daddy Daigotsu (seriously, no other clan can claim to have ever had a direct phone line to their founding kami, much less the god of a realm), and losing the ability to treat the Taint like their personal power-up tool (it's meant to be something horrifying and dehumanizing), would certainly put them in the same playing field as the other Clans and get them accepted.

Otherwise, keeping those traits mean they revert back to the Shadowlands Horde... a playable Faction, but no longer a Clan. This was their choice in the recent vote.

For the purposes of this thread, the difference lies in that a Clan is (IMHO) something essential to show up in the initial release of a new L5R product, while a Faction can be added later on (in expansions).

Hell, the TV show went through a phase of having the main characters use 'Pot of Greed' every episode, despite that card being the most banned OP card ever.

Hell, the main upgrade FFG could give to Yugioh would be to stop making cards that need 3 paragraphs of size 1 font text on them. Seriously, Konami can't design cards to save themselves.

Oh I agree. But at least it's not Vanguard: The cards are standard anime style art with a textbox jammed full of tekst in an _{absurdly tiny font} and icons and having holofoil on teh card doesn't help either. In short: They make my eyes bleed!

The anime was a bit better (less pharaos with weird hair and mystical card nonensense was kept to a minimum. Then season 2 happened...)

^At least they ain't Bandai...

Or Upperdeck. I mean come on! How do you manage to print counterfit cards of a game you distribute?

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Konami_v._Upper_Deck

^At least they ain't Bandai...

Or Upperdeck. I mean come on! How do you manage to print counterfit cards of a game you distribute?

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Konami_v._Upper_Deck

Seriously ... O_o

I know, right? It's like something straight out of the anime (Ghouls/Rare Hunters)

Here's the story (with less legal mumbo jumbo)

http://www.newhaven.edu/55898.pdf

I still don't get what their plan was...

I dont think it is some herculean task to launch the game with the 9 clans. Crab/Crane/Dragon/Lion/Mantis/Phoenix/Scorpion/Spider/Unicorn.

Sometime in the first couple expansions launch Shadowlands, and keep a semi-steady influx of Neutral cards for Unaligned, Naga, and Ratlings cards.

Yes! But no roman gaijin,, those are just silly...

I would love to see some Nonhuman stuff.

I think we can all see the Ogre Bushi getting a 'reprint' at the very least.