I was thinking about this house rule since my players are mostly down after 1-2 hit.

As per RAW character exceeding wound treshold should take a crit and fall unconscious.

and after encouter they stay unconscious until their wound are reduced beneath the treshold.

At first we tried that character can stay in combat and get another crit (it was more deadly which was fine) but in the end they could take twice their wound treshold before getting unconscious. Since it doubled their WT i think it's a bad rule.

However i had this idea.

When character exceed his wound treshold he take the crit and have to make a resilience check to stay conscious. Difficulty would be based on number of wound exceeding the treshosld. So in other words.

If a character has 12 WT he gets hit for 13 wounds he get one critical injury and make a resilience test to stay conscious. Difficulty would be one Purple dice since he is 1 past the treshold. If the same character would suffer another hit for example ,for 2 wounds. He now have 3 over the treshold so his resilience check would be PPP and of course he would get another critical injury. After another hit fo 3 damage he would be 6 over threshold so he would have to make check with difficulty RPPPP and get critical injury.

With this rule character could stay in combat longer but it would be harder for them to heal and they would get more severe critical injuries. Character would be incapacitated regardless of check after they exceed wound treshold twice. I am not sure how to resolve this after combat if player have for example 16 wounds and 12 WT. Should they have fall unconscious immediately after combat?

Maybe it's not the best rule but if players get incapacitated after exceeding their WT then combat would be even more deadly since enemies can just do coup de grace on them.

​Any thoughts?

Maybe the PC should burn two maneuvers and use 2 stimpacks...

You could do things as a GM to make sure not everyone goes down in 2 hits... What I mean is use NPCs differently, or don't use ones as powerful.

Sure but since in last two combats in trouble brewing adventure from core book, after one hit from minion , player character was over their wound treshold so there is not much options to do anything. Also enemy rival had 5 soak and party could not do more than one dmg per hit on him. I found it strange that two group of 3 minions in heroic system can TPK party in two rounds. This adventure is for fresh characters but rivals have more soak, wounds and can do more dmg than a party. Even minnions which supose to be cannon fodder run around with blaster carbines dealing 10-12 dmg per hit while players have light blaster pistol and do 6-7 dmg which barely kill one minion. And a minion can one shot player character. For some reason combat is even more who goes first than in 40k rpg's. So it's either encounter difficulty in published adventures are badly scaled or they expect players to have combat heavy builds.

Anyway i can do things like assuming npc are morons and don't use cover ,advantage etc. but since players are heroes and should stand above common rabble i thought this rule was good while not making game unbalanced adding more risk and reward and enemies can still use brains in combat.

I give you guys one example. Simple combat (minions group (3), one rival) gets first round. They fire at players, two players get down in first hit. Third Player goes for cover, fire at enemy group kills one minion, he gets down in another round. All players unconcious, logical course of action enemies do coup de grace, game over. Pretty rough for heroic system especially when book states that minions are weak and rival are weaker than PC.

Anyway, any thoughts on this house rule? Is it bad, good, need some change?

Are you doing damage correctly it is base+1 dmg per success NOT base +1 per EXTRA success.

So a hit with even a regular blaster is doing a minimum of 7 dmg (6+1 for the success). Also, make sure that the player can say what they are doing with advantages. Causing strain to a minion is a free wound effectivly, so if a player got 1 (or even 0) success but like 3 or 4 advantages that is potentially 3 or 4 more damage to a minion, or setbacks that can be applied to the target.

Also a minion group should fight exacly as that. So a if you have 6 minion guards, they should fight as either 1 group of 6 or 2 groups of 3. This will lessen the incoming shots at the party.

So a if you have 6 minion guards, they should fight as either 1 group of 6 or 2 groups of 3. This will lessen the incoming shots at the party.

True...though one group of 6 will be nasty per shot...

Remember a group of minions only attacks once total per round. You could change their weapons out with something less hard hitting.

I give you guys one example. Simple combat (minions group (3), one rival) gets first round. They fire at players, two players get down in first hit. Third Player goes for cover, fire at enemy group kills one minion, he gets down in another round. All players unconcious, logical course of action enemies do coup de grace, game over. Pretty rough for heroic system especially when book states that minions are weak and rival are weaker than PC.

I'd say that is some very good rolls for the minions and rival.

First I'd likely give the rival its own Initiative slot (sure the minions and the rival's may still get the first two slots), but it reduces the chance of two hits in a row.

Second, this is only two attacks, one for the minion group and one for the rival. If they are armed with blaster rifles and your PC have really poor soak and thresholds each (say Soak 1 WT 10) I could see them taking out two PCs, but even then it seems a low probability; it seems far more likely two attacks would take out a single PC baring really bad luck.

Third, not being able to voluntarily suffer strain is a large handy cap, minions and rivals are left to pick what to do with their maneuver, aim, close, take cover, etc. often leaving them open to return fire or reducing how hard they can hit. If they use their actiom for a second maneuver (perhaps to close and take cover) they're not even attacking, giving the PCs the initiative so to speak.

Fourth, if your PCs are not combat oriented encourage them to use their skills to their advantage both leading up to a fight or during. A social PC can trick a NPC, surprising them or throwing them off guard, technical PCs can use computers or nearby tech to mold or alter the environment in beneficial way. Unfortunately, published adventures don't always make this easy, but with some creative thinking on yours or the PCs part can go a long way.

The house rule seems functional, I'd apply it only to PCs and Nemesis NPCs. It might offer too tight of a window of success for the cost/delay of a roll, given a purple for every wound above the WT.

Honestly I have not found a need for a rule like this. I've typically run groups of two PCs in the published adventures, running the encounters as if for groups of four PCs, and none of my PCs have been combat focused yet. I've only had two PCs exceed their thresholds and both were aided with stimpack swiftly by their partners. Both encounters were successes for the PCs, albeit costly ones.

I might suggest trying without a house rule for a bit longer before making any changes.

If the party doesn't have anyone with high int or a medpac, I'd provide the party the opportunity to loot stimpacks regularly. They're really essential in parties that don't have any healing. It does make sense for PCs to drop after 2 hits most of the time (especially at the start of the game). The important part, though, is giving them a way to get back up after they're dropped -- hence the int/medpac and stimpack availability.

A typical human PC has a minimum of Soak 2 and WT 12. To take that character out with one hit requires 15 damage, so 6 (!) successes with a blaster carbine/rifle. That's not the outcome of a typical attack. Taking that character out with two shots, however, is pretty easy. Ranged (heavy)-using foes shouldn't be common encounters for most Edge characters. If the characters are facing such opposition, then hopefully they are prepared for straight-up combat and have better Soak and WT values.

As a final note, just about every character can reasonably wear heavy clothing in most situations for +1 Soak, and against ranged (light) and many brawl/melee attacks, this will make a big difference.

Are you doing damage correctly it is base+1 dmg per success NOT base +1 per EXTRA success.

Yes

Remember a group of minions only attacks once total per round. You could change their weapons out with something less hard hitting.

I know however i was using stats in core adventure so the minions had blaster carbines. Most of the NPC in published adventures are far better than PC and have better equipment.

A typical human PC has a minimum of Soak 2 and WT 12. To take that character out with one hit requires 15 damage, so 6 (!) successes with a blaster carbine/rifle. That's not the outcome of a typical attack. Taking that character out with two shots, however, is pretty easy. Ranged (heavy)-using foes shouldn't be common encounters for most Edge characters. If the characters are facing such opposition, then hopefully they are prepared for straight-up combat and have better Soak and WT values.

As a final note, just about every character can reasonably wear heavy clothing in most situations for +1 Soak, and against ranged (light) and many brawl/melee attacks, this will make a big difference.

Agree. Maybe it was a really bad luck on players trough this adventure and good rolls for enemies.

Maybe i try to play without house rules for one more session and we will see how it will work out. Hovewer i fear that it will simplify combat to "who goes first" and "who has better weapon". I doubt that with RAW they could take Nemesis and two rivals (as in trouble brewing adventure) even if they would win initiative.

I know however i was using stats in core adventure so the minions had blaster carbines. Most of the NPC in published adventures are far better than PC and have better equipment.

That sounds to me like maybe you’ve got a group of PCs who are all non-combat, or at least not very well equipped at all, and they’re fresh out of chargen.

Some adjustments need to be made by the GM to every published adventure, based on how advanced the PCs are and how well equipped they are.

If the squads of stormtroopers with blaster rifles is pasting them left and right, then maybe they need to be caught and taken to a local low-security prison, where they can then escape and then maybe find less dangerous and less well-equipped opponents to fight.

Or maybe they just need to generally avoid fighting, at least until they get better equipped and more talented/skilled/powerful.

Agree. Maybe it was a really bad luck on players trough this adventure and good rolls for enemies.

Maybe i try to play without house rules for one more session and we will see how it will work out. Hovewer i fear that it will simplify combat to "who goes first" and "who has better weapon". I doubt that with RAW they could take Nemesis and two rivals (as in trouble brewing adventure) even if they would win initiative.

It’s been my experience that if you’re running into a situation where something is broken and you’re feeling like you need to houserule something, then the odds are relatively low that the rules are actually broken. Instead, there’s something else that probably needs adjusting, and is entirely according to the rules-as-written, you’re just not seeing it — yet.

That’s part of what a community is for. However, you’re better off just telling us what the overall situation is, what your specific problem is and what you’ve tried to do to solve it, and then let us help you brainstorm potential solutions.

If you come in here with pre-conceived notions of what you want to do and you’re just looking for our approval, that’s less likely to get you a good solution that you will like. More likely, you will be told something you don’t like hearing.

So, let us help you find a good solution.

I give you guys one example. Simple combat (minions group (3), one rival) gets first round. They fire at players, two players get down in first hit.

Two players go down in first hit? You're not running your player characters the same way you run minions, are you? And they get first round? I hope you mean they got the first initiative slot (during which either the minion group or the rival can act) and not a whole round to themselves.

A group of 3 minions dropping someone with one shot means they either have incredibly powerful weapons or ridiculously high Agility scores. Keep them at 2 or 3 Agility, give them pistol-size weapons instead of rifles and keep them in small groups and you should be fine.

Another thing to note, if the Stormtroopers the party encountered had blaster carbines, once defeated, that would mean most groups have blaster carbines now. Whatever gear the NPCs have quickly becomes the PCs property, so the arms race doesn't last all that long without some external pressure.

I give you guys one example. Simple combat (minions group (3), one rival) gets first round. They fire at players, two players get down in first hit. Third Player goes for cover, fire at enemy group kills one minion, he gets down in another round. All players unconcious, logical course of action enemies do coup de grace, game over.

a) as others have noted, something smells wrong here. However, it's is true that this game isn't really set to reward "stand and fight" encounters, at least not until the PCs have the appropriate equipment.

b) I big to differ about the logical course of action. It would seem to me that capture is a more elegant solution and a prison break, with an emphasis on non-combat skills, can lead to a lot of fun.

Another thing to note, if the Stormtroopers the party encountered had blaster carbines, once defeated, that would mean most groups have blaster carbines now. Whatever gear the NPCs have quickly becomes the PCs property, so the arms race doesn't last all that long without some external pressure.

My players mostly don't scavenge equipment. They have their own weapons so the don't loot enemies. One of my players is playing mechanic so he didn't want a weapon at all but after in game discussion he bought igh blaster pistol but mostly try to shoot on stun setting. Another one is smuggler so he also using only blaster pistol. And a bounty hunter who shoots from two blaster pistols.

I give you guys one example. Simple combat (minions group (3), one rival) gets first round. They fire at players, two players get down in first hit.

Two players go down in first hit? You're not running your player characters the same way you run minions, are you? And they get first round? I hope you mean they got the first initiative slot (during which either the minion group or the rival can act) and not a whole round to themselves.

A group of 3 minions dropping someone with one shot means they either have incredibly powerful weapons or ridiculously high Agility scores. Keep them at 2 or 3 Agility, give them pistol-size weapons instead of rifles and keep them in small groups and you should be fine.

I was using enemies from core book adventure with Agi 3 and blaster carbines (pirate crew or something) and i run minnions by the book so they have one attack per round etc.

As for initiative i rolled once for minnion group and once for rival and each player rolled once. First two slot was eniemies slot and then slots for players. First hit from minions group and one player is down since they had tons of succes. Then rival charge into melee ,score a hit and another players is down. He had like 2-3 wounds but otherwise was fine.

The problem is the enemies was not super powerfull, they were all by the book with equipment by the book. Also best shooter in players party have 3 agi and 1 ranged light and at best he can score a hit with 1-2 succes. Also we were using all combat rules like aiming, taking cover etc.

I know however i was using stats in core adventure so the minions had blaster carbines. Most of the NPC in published adventures are far better than PC and have better equipment.

That sounds to me like maybe you’ve got a group of PCs who are all non-combat, or at least not very well equipped at all, and they’re fresh out of chargen.

Some adjustments need to be made by the GM to every published adventure, based on how advanced the PCs are and how well equipped they are.

If the squads of stormtroopers with blaster rifles is pasting them left and right, then maybe they need to be caught and taken to a local low-security prison, where they can then escape and then maybe find less dangerous and less well-equipped opponents to fight.

Or maybe they just need to generally avoid fighting, at least until they get better equipped and more talented/skilled/powerful.

Agree. Maybe it was a really bad luck on players trough this adventure and good rolls for enemies.

Maybe i try to play without house rules for one more session and we will see how it will work out. Hovewer i fear that it will simplify combat to "who goes first" and "who has better weapon". I doubt that with RAW they could take Nemesis and two rivals (as in trouble brewing adventure) even if they would win initiative.

It’s been my experience that if you’re running into a situation where something is broken and you’re feeling like you need to houserule something, then the odds are relatively low that the rules are actually broken. Instead, there’s something else that probably needs adjusting, and is entirely according to the rules-as-written, you’re just not seeing it — yet.

That’s part of what a community is for. However, you’re better off just telling us what the overall situation is, what your specific problem is and what you’ve tried to do to solve it, and then let us help you brainstorm potential solutions.

If you come in here with pre-conceived notions of what you want to do and you’re just looking for our approval, that’s less likely to get you a good solution that you will like. More likely, you will be told something you don’t like hearing.

So, let us help you find a good solution.

As i stated before we think that players are too fragile. We all are veterans from 40k so we are used to brutal unforgiving combat hovewer from our expierence so far it looks like only equipment and who goes first matters. All my players would rather risk another critical injury than just fall unconcious since from what we seen it will result in TPK cause they expect that bloodthirsty pirates won't spare them, just kill them and loot the bodies.

How experienced are the characters? How much equipment upgrades have they gotten?

Is it a full group of at least 4 players?

Perhaps they are a bit under-powered for what the adventure expects?

Also, Enemies don't HAVE to Coup de Grace.

They can capture or what ever.

Generally, Enemies will focus on Actual threats rather than a Neutralized individual. SO if you have your Enemy Npcs Going around Coup De grace the Incapacitated PCs, then that is a GM side issue, Not a Game mechanic Issue.

I had one fight go down where nearly everyone one in a fight was Down, and had it not been for 2 other PCs that had been off doing something else but made haste to where the fight was and eventually showing up, The other group would have all gone down. At that point I would have had the Enemies Use the "captured" Pcs as Hostages against the last 2.

I still say a couple stimpacks each turns this fight completely around and dispenses with the need for house rules. They're only 25 credits and are completely available to starting characters.

How experienced are the characters? How much equipment upgrades have they gotten?

Is it a full group of at least 4 players?

Perhaps they are a bit under-powered for what the adventure expects?

Also, Enemies don't HAVE to Coup de Grace.

They can capture or what ever.

Generally, Enemies will focus on Actual threats rather than a Neutralized individual. SO if you have your Enemy Npcs Going around Coup De grace the Incapacitated PCs, then that is a GM side issue, Not a Game mechanic Issue.

I had one fight go down where nearly everyone one in a fight was Down, and had it not been for 2 other PCs that had been off doing something else but made haste to where the fight was and eventually showing up, The other group would have all gone down. At that point I would have had the Enemies Use the "captured" Pcs as Hostages against the last 2.

There were starting characters in their first adventure (from core book). Group of 3 players. Maybe just encounters are badly scaled but since i don't have much expierience in EoTE i thought from what i read that minions are really weak while rivals should be a minor challenge. It turns out minion group can be deadly while one rival is enough to take any PC.

As for coup de grace i was talking about situation when all party is down. While in some brawl they can be looted or even left alone but in fight with pirates or other band of murderes it's ilogical to leave witnesses especially if they learn your base of operations. Of course i can come up with some far fetched reason why they were left alive. But my players don't like deus ex machina.

Not sure what corebook adventure expected. Maybe more combat focused characters or maybe that players will loot anything not welded to the ground.

Also from narrative perspective it would be stupid for players to use first aid after combat while enemies still lurk nearby or in the middle of chase. Stimpacks sure but they only had 3 for entire team and no more credits.

I think it's strange that nobody run into that problem when players can be taken out in 1-2 rounds even by simple minions since 1-2 good hits can take down any average human (by average i amean with 2-3 brawn). From what i seen in every published adventure combat encouter enemies always outnumber players and are mostly on the same skill level.

As i stated before we think that players are too fragile. We all are veterans from 40k so we are used to brutal unforgiving combat hovewer from our expierence so far it looks like only equipment and who goes first matters.

Well there's your problem right there. First, before even setting up the adventure you have to take a look at the various dice pools for the party and compare to the NPCs. You might be running the game from a module, but depending on party configuration, skill base, and number of members, you still have to tailor the module accordingly...you can almost never run these things straight from the book. In your case, it looks like you didn't modify the adventure to account for the fact that none of the PCs had any dice pools close to the opposition.

All my players would rather risk another critical injury than just fall unconcious since from what we seen it will result in TPK cause they expect that bloodthirsty pirates won't spare them, just kill them and loot the bodies.

Okay...this I don't get. Maybe in 40k nobody takes any prisoners and the consequences of losing a fight are final. That's probably why the game is set up the way it is...fight or die, because the space orks, or nebula zombies (or whatever 40k has) are just motivated by death and hunger. It's like D&D and bloodthirsty orcs, and It's easy to play these games because you don't have to come up with any opponent motivations.

But that's not Star Wars at all. The parties are always running away, and the opposition always has a motive beyond KILL THEM ALL. And if they get captured, there's always a way out. There aren't "bloodthirsty" pirates. Instead, pirates are just raiders and traders trying to make their own living, and if they can't ransom off the PCs then they'll happily sell them into slavery to the Hutts or the Zyggerians.

If you *do* want to play a 40k-style game using these rules, then first play a few sessions to get a good grip on the mechanics, then create fresh characters that have a mainly combat focus, and use the "Knight Level Play" option from F&D, that is: give each character 150XP after chargen, and 10000 credit for equipment. I think you'll find the results quite different.

I think it's strange that nobody run into that problem when players can be taken out in 1-2 rounds even by simple minions since 1-2 good hits can take down any average human (by average i amean with 2-3 brawn).

It's probably because our basic assumptions are different...plus, we've had a few years to learn the game, and have probably forgotten our initial mistakes

Basically you need to adjust a few things if you want to play this game. You don't need a house rule, you need to rescale your adventures, and rethink the consequences of taking the party down. Stormtroopers will always be a threat in this game because the power curve is pretty flat. But if you want to go toe to toe with stormtroopers you need more of a combat focussed party, and either need to start at a higher XP level, or accelerate your XP awards.

players of RPGs also need to change their thinking in that going Te to Toe and expecting to defeat everything is not always a smart Idea.

Use your terrain to your advantage, and in the end.. Running away (as often happen

s s in SW movies/shows) is not a bad thing.

TO often with Players, I run into the Video game mentality that if I am fighting it I should be able to defeat it.

From my experience with this system, and to be fair my players and I are only 300 something XP in to our first campaign (if you disregard the character creation XP and Knight Level XP) and at this point the ability to remain walking around in a fight does seem to be a precious commodity, but this is a problem for both the PCs and the NPCs alike. Now, this can be addressed with correct talents and correct gear, which can be difficult to come by in the beginning of a campaign.

While i have been working on this post, Whafrog mentioned that the more experienced folk have forgotten their initial mistakes, so here are all my early combat mistakes, the lessons learned, and other fun things I've picked up along the way, since it's all fresh in my mind.

The party (as of the begining of our last session) includes:

Ninja Jedi - Shadow/Ataru Striker with a saber staff (as far as i can tell it is mathematically superior to Jar Kai in every way. 1P less difficulty, and it's quick draw-able for the cost of 1 hard point and you need one less crystal)

Techie Jedi - Artisan/Soresu Defender

Dr. Jedi, MD - healer/Soresu

Underworld Diplomat Jedi with a side order of Djem So (And so much brawn it scares me a little) - Advisor/Seer/Shien but all down the left hand side

Primative Hunter Padawan (npc, student of the underworld diplomat) - Hunter/Shien with a drop of Starfighter Ace to back up the pilot

Ex-Imperial Assassin/Pilot (Npc, "student" of the techie) - Hunter/Starfighter Ace/Ataru Striker

Now, pretty early on, only the techie (who spent about half his Knight Level points in Soresu), the diplomat (Who has brawn 5 and had armor off the bat), the Padawan (Brawn three, refuses to wear armor and shoes, but took every freaking toughness in her starting trees she could get to), and the Assassin (incognito as a bounty hunter with some butch armor) were the only ones who could really take more than two hits from a reasonable weapon wielded by reasonably skilled opponents. The Ninja counted on things not living long enough to hit him back, and the doctor (1 brawn...) had a lot of options to hide behind and fling explosives.

FIRST LESSON

Now, one of the first "FOR SERIOUS" combat encounters, the techie gets within a WT or two of getting dropped by an alien rival that was supposed to have two friends. When I saw how hard I hit the first time, the friends never showed up. I planned this encounter this way just in case I had gotten the balance wrong. Conversely, if the one guy had been way to weak, more friends may have snuck up out of the gloom of the shattered star destroyer. Now, while the techie was a little bad luck away from a one hit KO (not dead, but I can occasionally be a nice guy and when he got stabbed through his space suit and the player was concerned, I said "Oh, it's got the auto sealing stuff like they put in high end fuel tanks. You're cold and lost a chunk of air, but you won't suffocate or explosively decompress before the monster eats you.") My take away from this was escalating engagements are safer and easier to tune on the fly. Think of it like a Kung Fu movie where the badguys basically attack one at a time.

1st lesson TL;DR: Start off with fewer bad guys and ramp up if needed to provide a challenge

SECOND LESSON

In one of the second big set piece combats, my intrepid players met one of the lightsaber wielding bad guys that was coming for them. Now, I had planned to have the big bad show up and run, forcing the players to either chase him, or deal with the minion packs to investigate the crashed ship (as their had run out of gas for their YT-1300 due to a despair while trying to fix the engines in combat with a still wounded technician in a damaged space suit). Once again, my players do the unexpected and split up. The Ninja and the Assassin chase after the Big Bad (because I knew the Ninja would need a hand) and everyone else is on mop up duty. While the larger group managed to clean up, the smaller group facing off against the big bad suffered from the same problem Anakin does against Dooku in Ep 2. Ninja hits, big bad parries to within 4 of his total WT, Big bad hits, and Ninja decides if he survives he's going to do two things. Upgrade his armor, and buy those ranks in parry he skipped. A bit of bounty hunting, a bit of stealing war materials destined to oppress the weak and the innocent from the imperials, and that sessions XP got the ninja his parry and some Cortosis Weave for his armor. Most of the party opted to learn from this and spend their cut of the loot to upgrade their armor as well.

2nd Lesson TL;DR: Long Term Survival comes from having the right talents and gear to go up against your opponents. Going first and hitting hard will only keep you alive until you run into something you can't one shot yourself.

Third Lesson

So, in the session I ran last night, I think I finally hit the right balance for challenging combat that lasted longer than two times through initiative. A big playing field (A Ratataki Gladiatorial arena), with hampering terrain (a grate between the pit and the spectators), A large number of low quality minion packs (The spectators), a small number of better minion packs and rivals (the arena guards) all of whom ran interference for the big bad who had a bucket of Parry, Reflect, cortosis armor, and caused fear checks. The fight went 6 or 7 rounds through the initiative roster, and it finally felt pretty epic to run as opposed to some of my previous attempts and that kind of climactic battle.

3rd Lesson TL;DR: Terrain! Obstacles! Gear! Talents! Tactical planning! Combat is a game of positioning for advantage or disadvantage. Practice also finally makes perfect! I just wish I had known this before hlafway through act II of my three act campaign

Hope this helps!

How experienced are the characters? How much equipment upgrades have they gotten?

Is it a full group of at least 4 players?

Perhaps they are a bit under-powered for what the adventure expects?

Also, Enemies don't HAVE to Coup de Grace.

They can capture or what ever.

Generally, Enemies will focus on Actual threats rather than a Neutralized individual. SO if you have your Enemy Npcs Going around Coup De grace the Incapacitated PCs, then that is a GM side issue, Not a Game mechanic Issue.

I had one fight go down where nearly everyone one in a fight was Down, and had it not been for 2 other PCs that had been off doing something else but made haste to where the fight was and eventually showing up, The other group would have all gone down. At that point I would have had the Enemies Use the "captured" Pcs as Hostages against the last 2.

There were starting characters in their first adventure (from core book). Group of 3 players. Maybe just encounters are badly scaled but since i don't have much expierience in EoTE i thought from what i read that minions are really weak while rivals should be a minor challenge. It turns out minion group can be deadly while one rival is enough to take any PC.

As for coup de grace i was talking about situation when all party is down. While in some brawl they can be looted or even left alone but in fight with pirates or other band of murderes it's ilogical to leave witnesses especially if they learn your base of operations. Of course i can come up with some far fetched reason why they were left alive. But my players don't like deus ex machina.

Not sure what corebook adventure expected. Maybe more combat focused characters or maybe that players will loot anything not welded to the ground.

Also from narrative perspective it would be stupid for players to use first aid after combat while enemies still lurk nearby or in the middle of chase. Stimpacks sure but they only had 3 for entire team and no more credits.

I think it's strange that nobody run into that problem when players can be taken out in 1-2 rounds even by simple minions since 1-2 good hits can take down any average human (by average i amean with 2-3 brawn). From what i seen in every published adventure combat encouter enemies always outnumber players and are mostly on the same skill level.

Well regardless, I hardly think after one session, with what sounds like two exceptionally good rolls on the part of some opponents, versus some PCs that are not combat optimized or equipped well, it's time to capsize the ship and impose house rules.

How experienced are the characters? How much equipment upgrades have they gotten?

Is it a full group of at least 4 players?

Perhaps they are a bit under-powered for what the adventure expects?

Also, Enemies don't HAVE to Coup de Grace.

They can capture or what ever.

Generally, Enemies will focus on Actual threats rather than a Neutralized individual. SO if you have your Enemy Npcs Going around Coup De grace the Incapacitated PCs, then that is a GM side issue, Not a Game mechanic Issue.

I had one fight go down where nearly everyone one in a fight was Down, and had it not been for 2 other PCs that had been off doing something else but made haste to where the fight was and eventually showing up, The other group would have all gone down. At that point I would have had the Enemies Use the "captured" Pcs as Hostages against the last 2.

There were starting characters in their first adventure (from core book). Group of 3 players. Maybe just encounters are badly scaled but since i don't have much expierience in EoTE i thought from what i read that minions are really weak while rivals should be a minor challenge. It turns out minion group can be deadly while one rival is enough to take any PC.

As for coup de grace i was talking about situation when all party is down. While in some brawl they can be looted or even left alone but in fight with pirates or other band of murderes it's ilogical to leave witnesses especially if they learn your base of operations. Of course i can come up with some far fetched reason why they were left alive. But my players don't like deus ex machina.

Not sure what corebook adventure expected. Maybe more combat focused characters or maybe that players will loot anything not welded to the ground.

Also from narrative perspective it would be stupid for players to use first aid after combat while enemies still lurk nearby or in the middle of chase. Stimpacks sure but they only had 3 for entire team and no more credits.

I think it's strange that nobody run into that problem when players can be taken out in 1-2 rounds even by simple minions since 1-2 good hits can take down any average human (by average i amean with 2-3 brawn). From what i seen in every published adventure combat encouter enemies always outnumber players and are mostly on the same skill level.

Well regardless, I hardly think after one session, with what sounds like two exceptionally good rolls on the part of some opponents, versus some PCs that are not combat optimized or equipped well, it's time to capsize the ship and impose house rules.

Actually it was few sessions and it happend in every fight. I just wanted to throw an example so i don't have to recap whole adventure. However in every fight ,PC lost. While i can imagen that fight with nemesis should be hard. Minions and rivals should be rather easy-medium challenge. As one of my players pointed combat is more about who shoots first than who is better or who has bigger gun. And in that case instead of group shadowrunners style they will have to arm themself like soldiers to have any chance in combat. And that he can't make Han Solo style smuggler since he spend more time uncouncious than doing anything in combat. It's not like i want to fix broken system i just want to have players more chance to influence combat without nerfing or dumbing down enemies. I was thinking in categories of expanding the current rule not change it.

I know that a lot of people play star wars like fairy tale where enemies never kill heroes, stormtroopers never hit and pirates smugglers and bad guys are never psychotic killers but a bunch of criminals. But imho it's stupid when enemies take alive players after they try to kill them. It's the same when heroes don't kill enemies in/after combat cause it's evil but have no problems blowing enemies ship in space killing everyone on board

As some people here pointed maybe it was common mistakes in new game since we are all new to this kind of game mechanics or maybe we just need to adjust encouter difficulty. Using published adventures was a bad idea to learn how to adjust eniemies to regular party.

Anyway after talk with my players we decided that it will be good idea to let them do resilience check after exceeding wound treshold if they spend destiny point. So from narrative it's like character has enough willpower to still stand. It will add a risk cause they can get another critical injury in next hit but will give them a chance to do something like using stimpack or taking cover. But otherwise we try to play RAW and we will see how it will work.