I hate all this move-before-you-move stuff, but it's so powerful it's really hard not to take advantage of it.

Nonsense. It's merely versatile.

The only thing of note to BB-8 is that it's a Barrel Roll with integrated Advanced Sensors. He's going to be hilarious fun, and I hope FFG keeps putting out more astromechs of similar calibre.

Versatility = power in this context. It means everyone else has to play the maneuver on their dial, that they selected on a guess, while you get to barrel roll and boost to change the direction of your movement, AFTER you've seen nearly everyone else's moves, AND you get to take a normal action afterwards. And you're not even stressed for doing it.

That's INCREDIBLY powerful. I'm not opposed to it because it's strong, I'm opposed to it because it provides striking exceptions to the fundamental mechanics of the game.

The boost+barrel-roll combo takes two upgrade slots and five points.

It's powerful, but it's most assuredly "This is my ships entire gimmick today".

Given the insanity that Adv. Sensors can pull off, I'm pretty OK with it.

Good thing that there are no green turns...

Well.... with PS9 pilots on board, T-65s still have no way to outmaneuver things like Vader or Fel.

Okay, I'm struggling to say this without being snide, but why is the entire crowd clamoring for another X-wing fix forgetting BB-8? You want a maneuver option? You got it. You need durability? Hello there, integrated astromech.

Who needs engine upgrade when you've got that lovable little beach ball? Sure, he's unique (Because he'd be utterly bonkers if he wasn't), but how many high PS X-wings were you running? Two of the three members of the classic Trench run trio already has their eyes on other options (Biggs wants R4-D6 to absorb HLC shots, Luke wants R2-D2 to regenerate shields), so Wedge is the only one who needs him, anyway.

Trench Run Trio 2.0

Wedge Antilles (29)

Push the Limit (3)

BB-8 (2)

Integrated Astromech (0)

Biggs Darklighter (25)

R4-D6 (1)

Integrated Astromech (0)

Luke Skywalker (28)

Draw Their Fire (1)

R2-D2 (4)

Engine Upgrade (4)

Total: 97

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Too sweet to be true.

BB-8 is overestimated. It's nice but ... nothing special on T-65s.

BB-8 is cool, but it's giving a barrel roll after green move pick on dial ... and this is not as that great, just look at X-wing dial, all you are going to see are poor green maneuvers. It's a nice try, but it's still not even near maneuverability or options that Vader or Fel provides.

I would take Jake Farrell with PTL, Veteran, test pilot, Proton Rockets and Autothrusters - it's MUCH better choice, with much better dial and movement options as well as PS9.

You should be aware that a list with Biggs and Wedge won a Regional tournament. Not played competitively, or almost beat some good lists, but won the whole **** thing against excellent players playing powerful lists. They're a little inefficient, but not crippled. Now they're not even inefficient.

How long ago X-wings went so good?

Against what lists they were playing?

It's really important, as in current, let's call it - metagame - there is no place for such inefficient ships like X-wing.

June, I think. Not long ago at all. Wave 6 metagame, which is almost certainly less favorable to a X-wings than ou.current unsettled wave 7 meta. I don't know his opponents exactly, but top 8 included dual 88s, double pancakes, Chewie/Corran, etc.

BB-8 is cool, but it's giving a barrel roll after green move pick on dial ... and this is not as that great, just look at X-wing dial, all you are going to see are poor green maneuvers. It's a nice try, but it's still not even near maneuverability or options that Vader or Fel provides.

And - for approximately the fiftieth time - an X-Wing with Integrated Astromech ISN'T inefficient. There's no 3-attack generic ship that is MORE efficient in terms of red dice vs. green dice. You can totally legitimately hold the opinion that you value the B-Wing's barrel-roll enough to take it over the slightly-more-efficient T-65, but claiming that the Integrated Astromech T-65 is inefficient is just ignoring facts in favour of your stubborn preconception.

Don't forget that calculated efficiency ignores the 1pt Astromech's special ability.

They're not much, but they're something, y'know?

BB-8 is cool, but it's giving a barrel roll after green move pick on dial ... and this is not as that great, just look at X-wing dial, all you are going to see are poor green maneuvers. It's a nice try, but it's still not even near maneuverability or options that Vader or Fel provides.

Of course it isn't! Manoeuvrability is Vader and Fel's WHOLE ENTIRE DEAL. If you're waiting for the X-Wing to move like an Interceptor you're doomed to disappointment. The T-65 X-Wing isn't competing with them because it fills a completely different niche. You wouldn't expect arc-dodging ships to hold their own in a joust, why in the name of God are you complaining that a pure jouster hasn't got an ace A-Wing's ability to arc-dodge?

And - for approximately the fiftieth time - an X-Wing with Integrated Astromech ISN'T inefficient. There's no 3-attack generic ship that is MORE efficient in terms of red dice vs. green dice. You can totally legitimately hold the opinion that you value the B-Wing's barrel-roll enough to take it over the slightly-more-efficient T-65, but claiming that the Integrated Astromech T-65 is inefficient is just ignoring facts in favour of your stubborn preconception.

Not like Interceptor, but TIE Advanced with 3HP 2 SH and 3 green dice - is in X-Wing range. TIE also gets Barrel Roll and Evade in its Action Bar with free Modification slot left for Engine Upgrade - and we have a ship with X-wing toughness, TIE's 3 dice defence, Barrel Roll, Engine Upgrade and free Crit each turn.

If something costs the same in game (Vader / Wedge) - I expect similar efficiency.

Vader can laugh at all Xwing pilots.

Not like Interceptor, but TIE Advanced with 3HP 2 SH and 3 green dice - is in X-Wing range. TIE also gets Barrel Roll and Evade in its Action Bar with free Modification slot left for Engine Upgrade - and we have a ship with X-wing toughness, TIE's 3 dice defence, Barrel Roll, Engine Upgrade and free Crit each turn.

If I had a free choice between Darth and Wedge, I'd probably take Darth most times too, because Darth is so good people sometimes ran him even before the Advanced got fixed. But if I had a free choice between 26-point IA Biggs and 26-point ATC Commander Alozen, I'm probably taking Biggs. So it's kind of a meaningless comparison, not least because there's literally no list in the game where you've got a choice between a Rebel ship and an Imperial one.

BB-8 is cool, but it's giving a barrel roll after green move pick on dial ... and this is not as that great, just look at X-wing dial, all you are going to see are poor green maneuvers. It's a nice try, but it's still not even near maneuverability or options that Vader or Fel provides.

Of course it isn't! Manoeuvrability is Vader and Fel's WHOLE ENTIRE DEAL. If you're waiting for the X-Wing to move like an Interceptor you're doomed to disappointment. The T-65 X-Wing isn't competing with them because it fills a completely different niche. You wouldn't expect arc-dodging ships to hold their own in a joust, why in the name of God are you complaining that a pure jouster hasn't got an ace A-Wing's ability to arc-dodge?

And - for approximately the fiftieth time - an X-Wing with Integrated Astromech ISN'T inefficient. There's no 3-attack generic ship that is MORE efficient in terms of red dice vs. green dice. You can totally legitimately hold the opinion that you value the B-Wing's barrel-roll enough to take it over the slightly-more-efficient T-65, but claiming that the Integrated Astromech T-65 is inefficient is just ignoring facts in favour of your stubborn preconception.

Not like Interceptor, but TIE Advanced with 3HP 2 SH and 3 green dice - is in X-Wing range. TIE also gets Barrel Roll and Evade in its Action Bar with free Modification slot left for Engine Upgrade - and we have a ship with X-wing toughness, TIE's 3 dice defence, Barrel Roll, Engine Upgrade and free Crit each turn.

If something costs the same in game (Vader / Wedge) - I expect similar efficiency.

Vader can laugh at all Xwing pilots.

Yes, Vader is really good but your other points don't hold up. The free crit only works if you TL which means you didn't barrel roll or evade. Engine upgrade just makes it even more ridiculous because it gives you another action that you don't want to use. (Unless your Vader)

Three red dice are a big deal, you pay a premium for that extra red die. I would argue that Vader with ATC and Wedge with R2 astro and IA are pretty darn close. Initiative makes or breaks you there.

X-wings are still unforgiving in that you go where you said you were going in the planning phase.

X-wings are still unforgiving in that you go where you said you were going in the planning phase.

Unless you took BB-8, Engine upgrade, R7-T1, Daredevil, Expert handling, lightning reflexes or stay on target.

It's about PTL/Boost/Barrel Roll combination... this is something that is making those Imperial pilots so good... Also on small ships, Empire holds all cards, most Rebel pilots have 7/8 PS and Imperials got around 9. This really makes a difference. I think this is also a reason why most Rebels are flying with Outrider/Han + support instead of Rebel Aces.

Maybe I'm underestimating X-wings - but it's based on my experience where high agility, good dial and Boost/Barrel Roll combination...

From the same reason I couldn't find any competitive list based on Z-95s, and TIE swarms are deadly as hell - it's all about maneuvers.

I'm allergic to Imperial Arc Doggers list... they are sick.

Also on small ships, Empire holds all cards, most Rebel pilots have 7/8 PS and Imperials got around 9. This really makes a difference.

Yes! The rebels have only one measly PS 9 pilots while the Empire has a whooping 2! TWO! THAT IS MORE THEN ONE! less then three but still. Wait what?

I'm allergic to Imperial Arc Doggers list... they are sick.

do yourself a favor and roll a K-wing with int agent and advanced SLAM conner nets

you're welcome

Also on small ships, Empire holds all cards, most Rebel pilots have 7/8 PS and Imperials got around 9. This really makes a difference.

Yes! The rebels have only one measly PS 9 pilots while the Empire has a whooping 2! TWO! THAT IS MORE THEN ONE! less then three but still. Wait what?

You are presenting this wrong:

The Empire has twice as many PS9 small base pilots as the Rebel Alliance! This is obvious favouritism by FFG towards the Empire, this has to stop!

See? Huuuuuuge issue

so we're not counting V.I Jake?

because he's effectively a PS 9 with that free ept slot

Also on small ships, Empire holds all cards, most Rebel pilots have 7/8 PS and Imperials got around 9. This really makes a difference.

Yes! The rebels have only one measly PS 9 pilots while the Empire has a whooping 2! TWO! THAT IS MORE THEN ONE! less then three but still. Wait what?

Count those playable ones - those that appear on tournament tables.

Empire got Whisper, Fel, Vader, Phennir, Stele and Juno - all of them are effective PS9/10 pilots in INSANE ships.

Who cares how many of them you can field if list can contain ~3 of them? And if we are aiming for best of the best small ships pilots those are Fel and Vader.

Most high PS Rebels are... on those bloody X-wings, there is Farrel with stunning 2 Attack dice, Corran is not bad but with starting cost of 35 points, and still got no Boost on action bar... Farlander is one of best pilots in game, but PS7 is really hurting his performance ... Poe - he is a hope for change in this matter. For now Vader and Fel wins.

I'm allergic to Imperial Arc Doggers list... they are sick.

do yourself a favor and roll a K-wing with int agent and advanced SLAM conner nets

you're welcome

K-Wing is OK - but I simply hate playing it.

It's nice ship but instead I prefer Horton with TLT, EU, R2-D6 and Veteran.

I'm allergic to Imperial Arc Doggers list... they are sick.

do yourself a favor and roll a K-wing with int agent and advanced SLAM conner nets

you're welcome

K-Wing is OK - but I simply hate playing it.

It's nice ship but instead I prefer Horton with TLT, EU, R2-D6 and Veteran.

hey, if you hate arc-dodgers but won't play the instant-ramen-counter that is conner nets, then you have only yourself to blame

Soontir is neutered by one net drop and Vader is a total chump to TLTs. Seriously, I've dropped nets on Vader some 5 times throughout the last few weeks and over half of them were just to do that one point more damage needed to kill him

oh well, there's always rebel control. **** neuters action-dependent arc dodgers real quick.

I'm allergic to Imperial Arc Doggers list... they are sick.

do yourself a favor and roll a K-wing with int agent and advanced SLAM conner nets

you're welcome

K-Wing is OK - but I simply hate playing it.

It's nice ship but instead I prefer Horton with TLT, EU, R2-D6 and Veteran.

hey, if you hate arc-dodgers but won't play the instant-ramen-counter that is conner nets, then you have only yourself to blame

Soontir is neutered by one net drop and Vader is a total chump to TLTs. Seriously, I've dropped nets on Vader some 5 times throughout the last few weeks and over half of them were just to do that one point more damage needed to kill him

oh well, there's always rebel control. **** neuters action-dependent arc dodgers real quick.

Smart player is going to focus K-wing and pwn it really quick as it's soft ship. Actually I've beated up Empire list with arc dodgers with my Fat Han + Horton... Horton with TLT is sick with his ability and PS10. But still - it's large ship with support of smaller ship.

I have no problems with competitive Rebel lists - I have a problem with T-65 X-wing performance as well as small ship, high PS Rebel builds - they simply doesn't work for me.

Also on small ships, Empire holds all cards, most Rebel pilots have 7/8 PS and Imperials got around 9. This really makes a difference.

Yes! The rebels have only one measly PS 9 pilots while the Empire has a whooping 2! TWO! THAT IS MORE THEN ONE! less then three but still. Wait what?

You are presenting this wrong:

The Empire has twice as many PS9 small base pilots as the Rebel Alliance! This is obvious favouritism by FFG towards the Empire, this has to stop!

See? Huuuuuuge issue

It's merely a reflection of Imperial pilots being more highly skilled than the backwater hicks that make up the rebellion. Which in turn just shows that the destruction of the Death Star was an inside job

Also on small ships, Empire holds all cards, most Rebel pilots have 7/8 PS and Imperials got around 9. This really makes a difference.

Yes! The rebels have only one measly PS 9 pilots while the Empire has a whooping 2! TWO! THAT IS MORE THEN ONE! less then three but still. Wait what?

You are presenting this wrong:

The Empire has twice as many PS9 small base pilots as the Rebel Alliance! This is obvious favouritism by FFG towards the Empire, this has to stop!

See? Huuuuuuge issue

It's merely a reflection of Imperial pilots being more highly skilled than the backwater hicks that make up the rebellion. Which in turn just shows that the destruction of the Death Star was an inside job

History is showing one thing No matter how war went, the final result counts.

Love the theme, hate the fact you only get one.

Still won't be happy if we're supposed to swallow that this fixes the T-65.

Yeah, it would have been nice as a 2x.

oh well, there's always rebel control. **** neuters action-dependent arc dodgers real quick.

Smart player is going to focus K-wing and pwn it really quick as it's soft ship.

that's only if you horribly misplay it and feed it to them on a silver platter

with SLAM and obstacles, the number of approaches you have available is limited only by your imagination

There is one more thing to consider: It's extra value from R2-D6, but sacrificing that particular droid also means sacrificing the Elite Talent equipped on top.

Therefore, you probably want to use an Elite Talent that isn't as necessary in the end-game than the early- to mid-game, even one that's sacrificial in its own right.

So do you lise the EPT when you lose the astro? I have not found the clarification to this question. Or is it in the new FAQ and i have overlooked it?