I'd agree with this as far as we're comparing the offensive value of a CF vs. Squadron command. I generally value CF commands the lowest out of the four (heresy, I know), because the raw dice and number of attacks from a squadron command usually translates into higher damage output overall (assuming, obviously, that the ship in question has available squadrons within command range).

On the flip-side, there is also an opportunity cost associated with spamming squadron commands. The top list at GenCon was built for maximum damage output, but stayed afloat by using almost exclusively defensive commands, repair and navigate. Spamming squadron commands with a dedicated carrier severely limits the options available for repairing (one token, topping out at 3 repair points for MC-80/AF-II + Redemption boost) or navigating (one token + Nav Team, for changing 1 speed or 1 yaw, or one token + Engine Techs, for changing speed once plus adding one speed 1 maneuver). The trade-off is (hopefully) more offensive firepower through the squadron attacks to destroy attacking enemy ships before the lack of repairs/maneuverability catches up to the carrier.

Well, the reverse could be said. When you're spending Engineering Commands, you're not doing damage The case on a VSD with an Engineering Command + Token recovers 2 hulls or 3 shields. With an average damage of 3 per 4 TIE Advanced activated, you're effectively negating the Engineerig Command

Besides, with fighters, you can afford to not spam Squadron Commands every turn. If you expect your squadrons to be tied up in a dogfight, you can afford to have them fight only in the squadron phase (and thus you take an Engineering Command that turn) if you think they can win it. If you can predict the position a ship so that your squadrons will be able to hit it next turn, you can squadron command them into position, get a shot, and get a free shot next turn.

But asking whether fighters/bombers are important or useful is like asking whether CR90s are important. They're just a facet of fleet building

I have not used fighters in any of my games so far, with the exception of my first. Where I had taken two only because I had the points and didn't know what else to take. Lol. For me it has not felt like a disadvantage. But Thursday night I went against a well played rhymer ball. He did a decent number of damage to my glad in one turn of shooting with the squadron command. And then he was out of position with them the rest of the game.

This damage subsequent made him able to destroy the glad with two turns of fire from his Vic. If he had been able to keep them in position or get a second shot on it the the game would have been different. But still ended up tabling him.

I have contemplated taking mauler, fel, and an advanced. Just as insurance against the rhymer ball or rebel fighters.

*keeps reading the Intel on the forums while planning own strategy*

Killed a Demolisher in 2 turns with the assistance of 4 Y-Wings and 2 A-Wings along with my Assault Frigates firepower

Fleets with maxed out Y-Wing bomber swarms have one of the deadliest weapons in this game at their disposal when played right.

Throw a flight controller in the mix and 6-10 Y Wings (accompanied by a couple A's) rule the skies, waste rhymerball, and can threaten Gladiators and lighter ships with 1-turn death.

After going undefeated against the exalted GenCon imperial list several times against equally skilled opponents, (including my own playtesting) I simply dont understand when people say fighters are underpowered.

Y-Wing swarms at least...arent. No characters needed. Personally, I think its the best fighter compliment in the game. It stomps the crap out of any character driven fighter force, and can create clouds of death for any ship.

Y-Wings for the wYn! #screwrhymerball

/chestbeating

Seriously, this post is half bs trashtalking for the fun of it and half serious advice on making squadrons work. Buy some rebel fighter packs, Y Wings WORK man...try 'em.

Fleets with maxed out Y-Wing bomber swarms have one of the deadliest weapons in this game at their disposal when played right.

Throw a flight controller in the mix and 6-10 Y Wings (accompanied by a couple A's) rule the skies, waste rhymerball, and can threaten Gladiators and lighter ships with 1-turn death.

After going undefeated against the exalted GenCon imperial list several times against equally skilled opponents, (including my own playtesting) I simply dont understand when people say fighters are underpowered.

Y-Wing swarms at least...arent. No characters needed. Personally, I think its the best fighter compliment in the game. It stomps the crap out of any character driven fighter force, and can create clouds of death for any ship.

Y-Wings for the wYn! #screwrhymerball

/chestbeating

Seriously, this post is half bs trashtalking for the fun of it and half serious advice on making squadrons work. Buy some rebel fighter packs, Y Wings WORK man...try 'em.

10 Y-Wings are too many Y-Wings.

You dont have the command to use them every turn so they can be wasted and have to wait till the squadron phase to do their work. At that point they may not even have a target.

I will say that if my Y-Wings had not all wiffed round 2 and my Unnamed A-Wing and a Y-Wing had not wiffed the turn later. . . I might have tabled my opponents 3 GSD 1's. . .

I'd agree with this as far as we're comparing the offensive value of a CF vs. Squadron command. I generally value CF commands the lowest out of the four (heresy, I know), because the raw dice and number of attacks from a squadron command usually translates into higher damage output overall (assuming, obviously, that the ship in question has available squadrons within command range).

On the flip-side, there is also an opportunity cost associated with spamming squadron commands. The top list at GenCon was built for maximum damage output, but stayed afloat by using almost exclusively defensive commands, repair and navigate. Spamming squadron commands with a dedicated carrier severely limits the options available for repairing (one token, topping out at 3 repair points for MC-80/AF-II + Redemption boost) or navigating (one token + Nav Team, for changing 1 speed or 1 yaw, or one token + Engine Techs, for changing speed once plus adding one speed 1 maneuver). The trade-off is (hopefully) more offensive firepower through the squadron attacks to destroy attacking enemy ships before the lack of repairs/maneuverability catches up to the carrier.

Well, the reverse could be said. When you're spending Engineering Commands, you're not doing damage The case on a VSD with an Engineering Command + Token recovers 2 hulls or 3 shields. With an average damage of 3 per 4 TIE Advanced activated, you're effectively negating the Engineerig Command

Besides, with fighters, you can afford to not spam Squadron Commands every turn. If you expect your squadrons to be tied up in a dogfight, you can afford to have them fight only in the squadron phase (and thus you take an Engineering Command that turn) if you think they can win it. If you can predict the position a ship so that your squadrons will be able to hit it next turn, you can squadron command them into position, get a shot, and get a free shot next turn.

But asking whether fighters/bombers are important or useful is like asking whether CR90s are important. They're just a facet of fleet building

Agreed, hence the trade-off between offense and defense (although, to be fair, a ship that uses a repair command can still shoot two times, assuming there's at least one target ship (or more) in range, so choosing a repair command is not a total loss of offense in the same way that spamming squadron commands is a total loss of repairing, sans a repair token).

Fleets with maxed out Y-Wing bomber swarms have one of the deadliest weapons in this game at their disposal when played right.

Throw a flight controller in the mix and 6-10 Y Wings (accompanied by a couple A's) rule the skies, waste rhymerball, and can threaten Gladiators and lighter ships with 1-turn death.

After going undefeated against the exalted GenCon imperial list several times against equally skilled opponents, (including my own playtesting) I simply dont understand when people say fighters are underpowered.

Y-Wing swarms at least...arent. No characters needed. Personally, I think its the best fighter compliment in the game. It stomps the crap out of any character driven fighter force, and can create clouds of death for any ship.

Y-Wings for the wYn! #screwrhymerball

/chestbeating

Seriously, this post is half bs trashtalking for the fun of it and half serious advice on making squadrons work. Buy some rebel fighter packs, Y Wings WORK man...try 'em.

10 Y-Wings are too many Y-Wings.

You dont have the command to use them every turn so they can be wasted and have to wait till the squadron phase to do their work. At that point they may not even have a target.

I will say that if my Y-Wings had not all wiffed round 2 and my Unnamed A-Wing and a Y-Wing had not wiffed the turn later. . . I might have tabled my opponents 3 GSD 1's. . .

Depends on your fleet build, tactics, how you're using them, etc. Slingshotting 10 Y-wings beyond activation range of your own ships just to slingshot them is probably not the most efficient way of using that kind of firepower. That said, there are other ways that 10 Y-wings could be used effectively, depending on fleet strategy and tactics:

1. It's hard to do with the current 300 point limit, but the incoming 400 point fleet limit can fit two MC-80 Command Carriers, Garm, and 10 Y-wings with 63 points to spare. With tokens, that will cover all 10 squadrons, or it's enough to fit a Neb-B Escort if you want full coverage of all 10. Admittedly this is not many ships to play with, but it's a lot of hull to chew through between the Y's and MonCal's. Alternatively, you can fit Garm, three AFII-Bs with advanced projectors and enhanced armaments, and 10 Y-wings for 389 points (leaving 11 points for an expanded hanger bay, if you wanted to be able to command the full 10). Or Garm, three Neb-B escort frigates, two support refits, and 10 Y-wings for 398 points, if you wanted more ship activations.
2. Alternatively, if one's strategy does not require that all 10 Y-wings be activated every turn, any current 300-point Rebel ship build can support the 10 Ys. The Y's can be sent out in bombing waves of 3-4 by a single AFII-B, keeping the others in reserve to deter alpha strikes from Gladiators or bombers. The Y's can be sent out in advance of the ships as a mobile minefield screen, or sling-shotted at slow-moving Vics. Or all Y-wings can not be sent out at all and cover the main fleet in a flying shield of death.

This is not to say that any or all of these are stellar builds, face-all-comer builds, etc. My only point is that if the driving concern is an inability to activate 10 squadrons, I think we're entering an era with wave II where that concern can be eliminated through appropriate list building.

The goal is to get the most out of the squadrons movement and to activate the most you can per turn.

My personal look on this is that you never go above 1 of your total squadron total of your carriers. You also want to use them to hit the same shields zone the majority of your fire will be going.

The goal is to get the most out of the squadrons movement and to activate the most you can per turn.

My personal look on this is that you never go above 1 of your total squadron total of your carriers. You also want to use them to hit the same shields zone the majority of your fire will be going.

Perfectly reasonable approach, and one that values efficiency in list-building. My only point is that not every strategy requires that every Y-wing be the recipient of a squadron command every turn. Whether that is efficient play or not in a particular game will depend on factors that go beyond list-building (objective denial, speedbumps for slow ships, etc).

With fighters its go big or go home.

They dont all need activation, that is correct. Maintaining air superiority demands that you go with multiple bases. Named fighters are powerless when dogpiled, and all those Y hit points take a LONG time to chew through. If you only go with squad command +1 you get outclassed by dedicated airwings. Y's may not be able to lock down other fighters, but neither can they be ignored when on an intercept mission after being buffed by FC's and supported by A's

The LAST thing an Imperial player wants to see is a cloud of 10 Y-wings dead ahead before his movement. If they go fighterless, thats 60 hitpoints to chew through. Squadron orders or no...its not that hard to get them engaged.

I did 6 squadrons. That's not a big amount. It would still be near the medium range I think. . .

But Thursday night I went against a well played rhymer ball. He did a decent number of damage to my glad in one turn of shooting with the squadron command. And then he was out of position with them the rest of the game.

This is the very definition of a poorly played Rhymer ball. Anyone can hit with a single round of damage from a Rhymer ball, particularly if there is no enemy fighter coverage. What makes a good Rhymer ball is the ability to get multiple turns of damage out of it from where you placed it, or placing it where a ship will be soon enough to help it reengage.

But Thursday night I went against a well played rhymer ball. He did a decent number of damage to my glad in one turn of shooting with the squadron command. And then he was out of position with them the rest of the game.

This is the very definition of a poorly played Rhymer ball. Anyone can hit with a single round of damage from a Rhymer ball, particularly if there is no enemy fighter coverage. What makes a good Rhymer ball is the ability to get multiple turns of damage out of it from where you placed it, or placing it where a ship will be soon enough to help it reengage.

Ah. Well it was the first time anyone had been able to get that much damage on me with fighters. Not saying I'm that good. Just saying no one had been able to do it. Or used that many. He had two Vic's and bombers advanced. That's it. Just kinda woke me to the squadron possibilities.

But Thursday night I went against a well played rhymer ball. He did a decent number of damage to my glad in one turn of shooting with the squadron command. And then he was out of position with them the rest of the game.

This is the very definition of a poorly played Rhymer ball. Anyone can hit with a single round of damage from a Rhymer ball, particularly if there is no enemy fighter coverage. What makes a good Rhymer ball is the ability to get multiple turns of damage out of it from where you placed it, or placing it where a ship will be soon enough to help it reengage.

Pretty much have to echo this. Really any player should should be able to with a Squadron Command get Squadrons on a ship if uncontested. Rhymer should make that child's play. But if your Squadrons, especially Rhymer led Squadrons, are out of position the rest of the game you really did not utilize them well.