The problem is that your enemy sees which vessel equipped clusterbombs. Either you equip all valuable targets with bombs, or you might just see rhymer targeting something slightly less valuable. CB might be a shot at some half-finished bomber to take him down for sure, but this will most likely not be an ace as no half-sane player would throw his wounded ace on a CB ship. And spending 5 points and a much valued upgrade slot to maybe take down a single wounded 8pts TIE bomber is questionable to me..

Put your commander on an Assault Cruiser - now you have two defensive retro fits - advanced projectors + cluster bomb deterrent. Would keep Rhymer off your Flag Ship. Remember each of those blue dice has a 75% chance of dealing damage because the crits count. It's not an attack so he can't brace. That's a pretty good way to bring him down to 1 if he was at full HP, and kill him if he's suffered any damage during the match.

Think about it from An Imperial perspective. Keeping Rhymer alive to give out medium range bomber runs is worth more than him risking an actual attack unless all of the other bombers and TIE advanced area dead. You're protecting yourself against a possible critical 2 damage each round, not something you would want to use defensive tokens on, but not something you would want to ignore long term either.

On top of that, I can also see the Cluster Bombs not working on their own, but in conjunction with squadron based killing power and I feel it's better on a Command Cruiser rather than on an Assault Cruiser.

Deploy your 4 (5) squadrons on one side (the one where you want to attack the ships from) so the enemy bombers will go the other side. Counter one with Cluster Bombs, then with the blue/black barrage and send in the squadrons.

EDIT : Actually, for the anti-fighter barrage, can black dice work at medium range ? Or are they only close range ?

Right, that's what I figured So that makes Rhymer even more invaluable, and it makes Cluster Bombs very interesting on a Command cruiser that will only have a single Blue Die at Medium Range.

I'm not a fan. I'll be letting others explore this strategy space.

I still think a 7 point upgrade that hit all squadrons within distance 1 with 3 blue dice that damaged on hits and crits then was discarded would have been much better

I still think a 7 point upgrade that hit all squadrons within distance 1 with 3 blue dice that damaged on hits and crits then was discarded would have been much better

That would be obscenely strong. That would be game-breaking. You're talking about a seven point upgrade that, when used, could potentially eliminate every TIE or Interceptor at range one. That's way, way, way too good.

I still think a 7 point upgrade that hit all squadrons within distance 1 with 3 blue dice that damaged on hits and crits then was discarded would have been much better

That would be obscenely strong. That would be game-breaking. You're talking about a seven point upgrade that, when used, could potentially eliminate every TIE or Interceptor at range one. That's way, way, way too good.

Agree, especially as you could place it on multiple, say, corvettes for cheap and just nuke the enemies' fighters to oblivion.

But what I like about Lyraeus' Idea is that it places the initiative on CBs with the owner of the upgrade. Its something to actively use, not proactive. With the current way CBs work, you either have to place them on your high value ship, which by definition could well need any other def upgrade to protect itself against cap-ship fire - or place them on a ship other than the flagship, with the potential to not see some use at all.. and in both circumstances you still leave the decision to your enemy on if and how to attack your CB ship.

While strong, you can bait it either easily. You can Rhymer and use a squadron to hit the ship and tease the use of the CB, it would make people think tactically and it can ruin the day of Imperial fighters and be dangerous against Rebel fighters.

As it stands now, Imperials will never take it, and rebels might take it but only for s&g's

I have a hard time buying into this card being useful. For starters it's a one time use. "...you may discard this card to roll 4 blue..." and for me personally I always whiff on blue dice rolls. I might get 1 hit or 2 if I am lucky otherwise I will accuracy you into mercy.

Now if I could exhaust the cluster bomb and then use it again in the next round alright we got something. But like others have said I'd go advanced projectors since I'm running 2 braces.

If I need a Anti Rhymer solution I would figure out a way to get 2/3 A-Wings in my build. Even if Rhymer is with Escorts I'm just there to tie him up, attack, and counter attack. I have used this tactic to tie up Rhymer for 4 turns allowing me to cruise by with my ships taking pop shoots at the group.

Yeah the one time use against 1 target really kills it for me. If you could do a 1 time attack on all targets that had attacked you....... But as it stands, I feel there are better options for this slot.

I want to see how it can be useful, but I'm not seeing it at this time

The more I think about it, the more I think it's meant to be used in conjunction with a Fighter Heavy build if you plan to use it on an MC80..

1) This defense doesn't do anything against ships.

2) So, the best defense against other ships for a ship equipped with Cluster Bombs is to kite away from the fight, rather than get in (and bank on ECM or Advanced Projectors to tank)

3) At longer range, the enemy will have to throw in Bombers if they really want to inflict damage on the ship.

4) But, at the same time, your poor 3-4 red dice won't inflict serious damage to your opponent either.

5) So, in that build, in order to inflict good damage from longer range, you need to throw in fighters.

6) If the enemy wants to damage you at such long range, he'll need to throw in fighters of its own.

7) This is where Cluster Bombs + Fighter Superiority come into play.

I just dont think any sane mind would let rhymer attack this one specific ship with CBs.

Exactly my point.

I can only see this being useful if no squad builds continue to be very strong, if only as a counter to the one or two Rogue Bombers they bring to top them off points wise. As it stands, if I have any sort of squadron capability what-so-ever, I feel like I might as well spend double points to get a fighter that can shoot every turn.

I can only see this being useful if no squad builds continue to be very strong, if only as a counter to the one or two Rogue Bombers they bring to top them off points wise. As it stands, if I have any sort of squadron capability what-so-ever, I feel like I might as well spend double points to get a fighter that can shoot every turn.

If you're shooting at Ace's they can Scatter, Brace, etc.

Aces can't scatter or brace against Cluster Bombs because it's not an attack. It also has a 75% chance of doing damage on each of those 4 dice you roll -- much better odds than your fighters, plus it will make them think twice about bombing the ship with CB equiped -- your squadrons won't.

I'll bet we'll all love it when smugglers and bounty hunters start to smash our faces up.

So has anybody found a viable use for them yet? just been going through the new wave cards and this one still sticks out as mostly pointless.. (to me..)

So has anybody found a viable use for them yet? just been going through the new wave cards and this one still sticks out as mostly pointless.. (to me..)

Yeah, its because they suck.

I think they are perhaps a bit overcosted for what they do. If they were an exhaust instead of a discard, maybe too powerful even at 5 points. I would only consider taking them on CR90s/MC30s as the redundant tokens make ECMs unimportant. APs are nice, but I could see going clusterbombs.

Pointless? No. Worse. It costs both points and a slot ☺

Good to see a general consensus. Maybe they'll alter it to a new type of card, something you can just bolt on maybe. hmm who knows..

If it was 2-3 pts maybe.

It would have to not fill the defence slot before it's even worth pointing.. that slot's just too important for cr*p

It would have to not fill the defence slot before it's even worth pointing.. that slot's just too important for cr*p

If it was 2 pts I might consider putting it on Landomonition. MIGHT.

Relatedly: the card could have been interesting if it was discard to attack all squads within distance 1 in one arc. That could prevent bombers from ganging up on one arc (for 1 turn anyway). Too bad Rhymer* would break such a mechanic.

* Bad game design there FFG.

Well I have shown sensor teams to in fact be epic in some circumstances.

Now to do the same for clusters...