how does this crit work with things like TLTs and gunner?
New Blinded Pilot damage card
With the old version, you still made an attack, and so things that triggered off of an attack could work.
Now, with the new version, you are not making an attack at all. So TLT can't be initiated, gunner never triggers, you can't add 2 booms with accuracy corrector, etc...
The flip side is that you no longer need a target to flip it down. The old version, if you had no one in arc you could not attack and the crit stayed face up. The new version, it flips down whether you could have shot it not.
New blinded pilot damage card... ?
Does this come with the new core pack?
If so how does this effect the old damage deck?
The new, force awakens, core set comes with a new updated rulebook (available as a free PDF) and a new damage deck (only available in the core set).
The new damage deck removes a few cards that had no effect on certain ships (like munitions failure) and replaces them with new crits. It also changes the wording on several others.
The new rulebook says "if you have both, you should use the new deck". Reports from a recent event say that FFG has said the new deck will be required for official events beginning in January.
Overall, the new deck is more uniform. Every crit can effect every ship. In most cases, the effects are worse, but it is easier to flip them face down.
It sounds to me like Blinded Pilot is working like it was supposed to work all along. FFG just fixed the exploits that got around the original and which were becoming more available.
It sounds to me like Blinded Pilot is working like it was supposed to work all along. FFG just fixed the exploits that got around the original and which were becoming more available.
Exactly. That is the type of stuff that the new wordings on the damage cards do. The new cards fix loopholes, or make things clearer.
I am in so much agreement with the damage deck fixes. Was tired of seeing accuracy correctors and gunner get around it all.
Cool, thanks everyone. That's what I thought, but it's good to have it confirmed and re-explained.
Although to be fair, just because the pilot was blinded doesn't mean his gunner was too. From a fluff standpoint the old way made sense. Although if he is blind, how can he not shoot worth a crap, but can fly perfectly where he wants to go. Seems odd.
Although to be fair, just because the pilot was blinded doesn't mean his gunner was too. From a fluff standpoint the old way made sense. Although if he is blind, how can he not shoot worth a crap, but can fly perfectly where he wants to go. Seems odd.
From a fluff standpoint it's strange that the gunner just sits there doing nothing as long as the pilot doesn't miss... I think it's best to leave fluff out of it
EDIT: Blinded Pilot Card text, for easy reference:
Blinded Pilot
• Pilot• You cannot perform attacks.• After your next opportunity to attack (even if there was no target for an attack), flip this card facedown.
Okay, I thought of a few more interactions with the new card I'm curious about. First, just to be thorough, the obvious interactions:
BTL-A4 Y-Wing Title
Seems pretty obvious. You never get to make your primary weapon attack, and so your secondary weapon attack never triggers
Airen Cracken
Likewise. You never make an attack, so you never get the chance to hand out a free action.
Cluster Missiles
Same as TLT. You never get the opportunity to attack so you can't trigger the double attack.
And now the interesting ones:
Feedback Array
Here's the card for easy reference:
So at first glance, it would seem to me that the new Blinded Pilot card blocks feedback array as well. Blinded Pilot stops you from making an attack, and Feedback array says "instead of performing any attacks." So, no opportunity for attack means no opportunity for doing things instead of attacking, right?
BUT, the most recent FAQ (3.02), which came out BEFORE the new damage deck, has this clause in it (emphasis added):
Using Feedback Array does not count as an attack, and can be used against ships you are touching, while you are overlapping an asteroid, and while you have the Blinded Pilot Damage card assigned to your ship.
This clause made sense with the old Blinded Pilot Card, but seems (at least to me) to go directly against the wording of the new one. However, unless and until FFG decides to change this part of the FAQ, you can still use Feedback Array while you have Blinded Pilot.
(side rant: In my opinion, feedback array was poorly worded to begin with. It should have just read " Attack : You may receive 1 ion token and suffer 1 damage to choose 1 enemy ship at Range 1. That ship suffers 1 damage." /rant)
Now, the question is, IF you decide to use Feedback Array while you have the new Blinded Pilot, do you still get to flip BP down?
My instincts say yes, though I can't say I like it.
Corran Horn
Here's another interesting scenario.
A couple ways the new BP can affect Corran. First is obvious. Corran picks up BP, combat phase arrives, and when it's his turn to attack he flips BP down. At the start of the End phase he can perform his bonus attack as usual. Easy Peasy.
But now a tricky one:
Combat comes. Corran makes his attack (or not, it's not really relevant). THEN, a lower-PS ship attacks Corran and deals him the new Blinded Pilot card. The End phase comes. Corran can't perform his bonus attack, BP is clear on that, but does the end phase count as his opportunity to attack? Can he choose flip BP down during the end phase? If he does, can he still attack next round?
Strictly speaking, RAW, it looks like Corran COULD flip Blinded Pilot down during the end phase (he had an opportunity to attack after all), however, since he didn't perform an attack, he is not deprived of his attack next round.
Another tricky situation:
Corran performs his attack and bonus attack during the first round. Round two he picks up a BP card from an asteroid. Combat phase comes- Corran's pilot ability won't let him attack this round, BP won't let him attack this round, but does this still count as an opportunity to attack? Can he still flip BP down even though he wouldn't have been able to attack without it anyway?
Thoughts/opinions anyone? Any other weird interactions you can see with this new damage card?
I think the Feedback Array question is covered by being able to use it on an asteroid, which also denies your ability to attack. So I think you could flip Blinded Pilot and then still use the Feedback Array.
For Corran, I don't think we can answer your first question reliably, but as near as I can tell the only actual "opportunity to attack" is the ship's normal slot during the Combat Phase. They don't ever strongly define the phrase, but every one of its uses relates to that. So barring a statement to the contrary, I don't think Corran could flip Blinded Pilot during the End Phase.
For the second, I think it's the same as the Feedback Array question. Your opportunity to attack comes and goes even if you can't actually make an attack. So if Corran's on his cooldown timer, he'd still get to flip Blinded Pilot. Same should apply to a ship that SLAMed as well.
Edited by BuhallinI think it would apply to Corran's end phase attack as well. It seems to me that the intention of the card is you miss your next attack regardless of whether or not it's going to be a legal attack. It is a normal opportunity for him to attack. So if he gets BP before he's become the active ship in the Combat phase, he doesn't get a chance to attack. If he's already had the chance to attack (or not) in the Combat phase and gets a BP card, then there's no Corran-Double-tap.
On the cool down turn, however, I'm not so sure. Technically, due to his ability, he doesn't have an opportunity to attack at this point.
I don't think referencing the current FAQ on this is the best way to go here as it's relating to the previous version of the card.
Better question: what happens to Corran if he double tapped last round and gets this crit before his turn in combat?
It is a normal opportunity for him to attack.
It's really not, though. It's an ability which, when triggered, generates an attack. Those are very different things.
On the cool down turn, however, I'm not so sure. Technically, due to his ability, he doesn't have an opportunity to attack at this point.
As near as I can tell, "opportunity to attack" refers solely to the ship's normal PS ordering slot during the Combat Phase. A ship has its opportunity to attack whether it can actually attack or not. The Simultaneous Fire rule relies on this - a ship in a Simultaneous Fire situation isn't removed until after it has had its opportunity to attack. If Corran didn't have that opportunity, he'd be Zombie Corran until after he attacked next turn. Same would apply to any ship that was destroyed while sitting on an asteroid. Given the Simultaneous Fire rule's reliance on the term, I think it's a safe element.
Corran: " At the start of the End phase, you may perform one attack "
Seems like an 'opportunity' to me. There's no reference on the BP card that restricts it to the Combat phase.
followed by " ... You cannot attack during the next round. "
Seems like it's not an opportunity.
Blinded Pilot: " You cannot perform attacks. After your next opportunity to attack (even if there was no target for an attack), flip this card facedown. "
And the Blinded Pilot card is using 'opportunity' as a keyword there, instead of referring to a particular phase. Admittedly the old version of the card left ways around it to a certain degree which allowed for Gunner/Luke to activate (amongst other things). This one is much more of a blanket statement meaning, if you've got an attack opportunity coming up (legal target or not), too bad, you just can't. It's like the old boardgame rule of 'miss a turn'.
Edited by ParravonCorran: " At the start of the End phase, you may perform one attack "
Seems like an 'opportunity' to me. There's no reference on the BP card that restricts it to the Combat phase.
Might seem like it, but it's not
If you look at how the term is used throughout the rules, there is an actual game meaning attached to it. It's not just "opportunity" per the dictionary meaning of the word. That term is used in two places: the basic combat phase flow, and simultaneous fire. It's not as strictly defined as it should be (no shock there) but the use of it is very focused.
But let's assume you're right, and if you can't attack you don't have an opportunity. Let's say you have initiative, I park Wedge on an asteroid, and you blow him up with Vader. What happens?
Simultaneous Fire (p17): After it has had its opportunity to attack, it is destroyed and removed from the play area.
Obstacle (p14): While a ship is overlapping an asteroid, it cannot perform any attacks.
So Wedge cannot perform any attacks. Per your reasoning, that means he has no opportunity to attack, so he's not actually removed despite his destruction. That doesn't really seem right, does it?
The key here is that "Opportunity to Attack" is a game term with a specific meaning. It's more than just "Some sequence of events exist which might result in my ship making an attack."
Actually, here's an even bigger counterpoint that just occurred to me...
Blinded Pilot prevents you from making attacks. After your next opportunity to attack, you flip it face down.
If not being able to attack means you have no opportunity to attack, then Blinded Pilot can never be cleared.
Pretty sure that should put the last nail in that one.
An opportunity is just a window when it might be able to happen but taking into account any restrictions that may halt that attack. The rulebook says " During the Combat phase, each ship has an opportunity to perform one attack... " But this doesn't automatically mean it's going to get an attack. There may be no valid targets, or the ship may be on an asteroid, but the opportunity is still there, even if the attack isn't. I see no difference with Corran in the End phase. For him it's another opportunity, even if it's exclusive to him.
As for your example with Wedge on the asteroid being destroyed by Vader. Wedge has the opportunity to attack, but it's the fact that he's on an asteroid that prohibits it. And I can't see where "my reasoning" would assume he wouldn't be destroyed just because he couldn't make his attack back.
As I said above, on the cool down turn I wasn't sure, but I guess he still has the opportunity, but his card text is what is prohibiting an attack. So although he can't attack the next round, the BP card would still get flipped due to the opportunity being there.
As for your example with Wedge on the asteroid being destroyed by Vader. Wedge has the opportunity to attack, but it's the fact that he's on an asteroid that prohibits it. And I can't see where "my reasoning" would assume he wouldn't be destroyed just because he couldn't make his attack back.
You said explicitly above that if you can't attack, it's not an opportunity to attack. No opportunity to attack, no removal after simultaneous fire.
An opportunity is just a window when it might be able to happen but taking into account any restrictions that may halt that attack. The rulebook says " During the Combat phase, each ship has an opportunity to perform one attack... " But this doesn't automatically mean it's going to get an attack. There may be no valid targets, or the ship may be on an asteroid, but the opportunity is still there, even if the attack isn't. I see no difference with Corran in the End phase. For him it's another opportunity, even if it's exclusive to him.
I've never suggested that the opportunity will guarantee an attack. Quite the opposite. An opportunity may generate an attack, but not every attack must come from an opportunity. Again, you're trying to apply a basic dictionary definition to something that really looks like a game term. There's at least a reasonable implication, by its use, that the term relates to your regular attack during the Combat Phase. Is there anything at all in the rules (or interactions) that suggests every single attack has an opportunity?
As for your example with Wedge on the asteroid being destroyed by Vader. Wedge has the opportunity to attack, but it's the fact that he's on an asteroid that prohibits it. And I can't see where "my reasoning" would assume he wouldn't be destroyed just because he couldn't make his attack back.
You said explicitly above that if you can't attack, it's not an opportunity to attack. No opportunity to attack, no removal after simultaneous fire.
An opportunity is just a window when it might be able to happen but taking into account any restrictions that may halt that attack. The rulebook says " During the Combat phase, each ship has an opportunity to perform one attack... " But this doesn't automatically mean it's going to get an attack. There may be no valid targets, or the ship may be on an asteroid, but the opportunity is still there, even if the attack isn't. I see no difference with Corran in the End phase. For him it's another opportunity, even if it's exclusive to him.
I've never suggested that the opportunity will guarantee an attack. Quite the opposite. An opportunity may generate an attack, but not every attack must come from an opportunity. Again, you're trying to apply a basic dictionary definition to something that really looks like a game term. There's at least a reasonable implication, by its use, that the term relates to your regular attack during the Combat Phase. Is there anything at all in the rules (or interactions) that suggests every single attack has an opportunity?
I stated above that I wasn't sure about Corran having the opportunity on the cool down turn. I never said " that if you can't attack, it's not an opportunity to attack. " I said he may not have an opportunity to attack at this point, but I guess the opportunity is still there, although he's not allowed to.
And if I don't try and apply a basic dictionary definition, then what am I supposed to make of it? It might as well be written in a different language in that case. " During the Combat phase, each ship has ha mea angitu ki te mahi i tetahi whakaeke, ". Can you make sense of this without a dictionary? I define "opportunity" as a chance for something. Am I wrong to assume that "opportunity to attack" is the same as "chance to attack"? The terms could quite easily be interchangeable, and the meaning remains the same.
And of course there's an implication that it applies to the Combat phase attacks, because it's referring to attacks and so far there's only one case where a pilot can attack outside that phase. But I don't think it makes the term exclusive to the Combat phase.
Edited by ParravonNow, with the new version, you are not making an attack at all. So TLT can't be initiated, gunner never triggers, you can't add 2 booms with accuracy corrector, etc...
I had not even realized that until reading this! At first I thought it was perhaps too weak of a crit, given the overall increased harshness of the new deck, but the fact that it doesn't play well with some of the more popular heavy hitters is probably a good thing. And as far as theme goes, I'm willing to accept that something that blinded the pilot was able to blind the Gunner as well. Additionally, it makes more sense now that the temporary blindness lasts a fixed amount of time rather than flying around blind until an enemy happens to fly in front of you.
And if I don't try and apply a basic dictionary definition, then what am I supposed to make of it? It might as well be written in a different language in that case. " During the Combat phase, each ship has ha mea angitu ki te mahi i tetahi whakaeke, ". Can you make sense of this without a dictionary? I define "opportunity" as a chance for something. Am I wrong to assume that "opportunity to attack" is the same as "chance to attack"? The terms could quite easily be interchangeable, and the meaning remains the same.
Once a word becomes a game term, you can no longer trust the dictionary meaning. Just like Simultaneous Fire isn't actually Simultaneous, and you can't assume that it's the same as "Concurrent Fire". It takes on the meaning which the rules give it, and nothing more.
Even if you think "opportunity" and "chance" are interchangeable, the rules never actually do this. Nor do any cards, as far as I know. It's a very consistent word structure despite being rather clunky, and they always use it exactly - "opportunity" appears 7 times in the rules, and always and only as "to attack". "...to attack" is preceded by "opportunity" (except in obviously different contexts). We have multiple cases where "opportunity to attack" is referred to as a game event. That makes it a game event, and not just a word.
The Corran issue will also affect Dengar with his reation shot abiliy in the near (?) future.
Edited by VeldrinOpportunity is allso used in the "once per opportunity" rule. So we do have many other "opportunitys" that do not concern attacks. I'm not sure this makes any difference to any arguments here though...
Edited by Smuggler