Anyone who says the X-wing is fine because Biggs and Tarn are used sometimes need to report to Moff Jerjerrod for a better explanation of why they're wrong.

When's the last time you've tried using them, and have you tried them with IA?

I fly them literally all the time, albeit casually. Normally use Luke Biggs and Wedge with whatever upgrades I feel like using. They don't joust like TIEs or B-wings, they don't Arc dodge like A-wings or Interceptors, and they don't have a Turret.

Sure I can win games, but I always feel like I'm working against the odds, like I have to constantly be on my toes and can't make a single mistake. They're the lest forgiving ship to fly, which admittedly does change a bit with IA, but not really enough.

I've played once with IA, but it didn't really make an impression either way, as Biggs and Wedge both took enough damage to kill them regardless, and I didn't block any super-crippling crits (apparently the selling point of the **** card).

My problem with IA is that the X-wing still gets outmaneuvered and out-jousted, it just takes a bit longer to die while it's there.

I like the fix, but I do hope for a title which allows the X-wing to barrel roll. I mean they are not changing the engines, so boost doesn't work for me, but adding barrel roll to all T65's (Perhaps they add some thrusters to help the maneuver) this gives them a solid place in the game. IMO

I'm sorry, but how would this not be straight-forward power creep?? What you're proposing is to relegate the B-wing to a rarely-seen novelty! An X-65 with toughness and post-maneuver movement parity, with a free 1-pt astromech, and a superior dial, is better in most ways than it's B friends. It would replace the B-wing, much as the B replaced the X!

1) The B-wing gets double Torpedoes, Systems and Cannon. I don't think the X can ever replace the B-wing.

2) You don't get a Free 1-pt Astro, you get a free health from the Astro you pay for (and the 1 point ones don't help the X much)

1) Indeed - the B would remain a significant cannon carrier, and fcs blues would still be fearsome, for 24 pts. The B's main role in the majority of lists, though - that of point efficient swarm - would be overtaken by the x-wing with your solution. So again, I would say to you that the Bwing that undercut the X would now be undercut by your X mk.II. It would be power creep, clear as day. Maybe if they'd gone for barrel roll instead of beefing up the X... Me, I'm glad they went with this fix, it's got style, theme and is a really fun mechanic to use.

2) It's 'free' in the base comparison - blue squadron vs rookie with 1pt mech (which is now basically a compulsory part of the rookie) both = 22pts.

The B was never intended to be a mainline fighter. The X was, so from that perspective having the X 'replace' the B doesnt seem like a negative..

The B will always have more options the way things stand, due to the range of customization it offers. The X needs to offer good baseline value and be cheap enough that it is affordable in the majority of lists. The Z is the cheap filler ship but has become the goto due to its efficiency, despite the fact that it offers less than the X, but in a very similar package. The B offers much more at a better cost point. Hell, even the **** Kxytxcvhncgvmx offers similar capability to the X FOR LESS POINTS.

The B remains far better value with only 1 significant disadvantage over the X, speed. The X is faster but less flexible and less capable, for the same points. the IA bandaid doesnt take away ANY of the Bs advantages.

Also its not 'power creep' when a ship which was inferior from the get go is simply made to be worth the points (and money) you pay for it.

I'm not sure how to give the T-65 the extra mobility people want. It's need some kind of brand new post manuever action, since boost and barrel roll are taken* by the B-wing and T-70.

*Also, before anyone cites the scene In ANH again, that's an Aeileron roll. It also serves no purpose on it's own- The X-wing's were showing off for the camera.

there was one scene where multiple x-wings did roll and dive, which isnt exactly a barrel roll or aileron, but it's close to the BR action. but it was mostly a dive towards the surface of the DS.

a new manuever? how about a "reverse boost", basically retro rockets, where you use a one forward or bank template and put it in the back guides and move backwards. of course this is gonna give a stress like its a red maneuver, but its an action, possibly given with the fabled Rogue Squadron title. R2 generics would be MUCH more valuable.

The X-wing's were showing off for the camera.

there was one scene where multiple x-wings did roll and dive, which isnt exactly a barrel roll or aileron, but it's close to the BR action. but it was mostly a dive towards the surface of the DS.

a new manuever? how about a "reverse boost", basically retro rockets, where you use a one forward or bank template and put it in the back guides and move backwards. of course this is gonna give a stress like its a red maneuver, but its an action, possibly given with the fabled Rogue Squadron title. R2 generics would be MUCH more valuable.

Something unique to the X-Wing I brought up with a while back...

Rogue Squadron

Title, X-Wing Only 0pts.

Your action bar gains the Loop-the-Loop icon (see below)

**Something else cool like 2 discounted mods, or an extra EPT.**

New action, called Loop-the Loop

This card explains the rules for performing a Loop-the-Loop action. To Loop-the-Loop follow these steps:

1. Choose the 1 straight maneuver template.

2. Set the maneuver template between the ship’s rear guides.

3. Move the ship to the opposite end of the template and slide the front guides of the ship into the template.

Performing a Loop-the-Loop does not count as executing a maneuver. A ship cannot Loop-the-Loop if this would cause its base to overlap with another ship’s base or an obstacle token or cause it to leave the play area.

I do like the idea of using the 1 banks as well, but I also think that would be too much as a normal action bar action and I also don't like the idea of an action bar action that gives stress. But that's just me. If the same thing were an elite ability for 2 points then yes, give it the banks and the stress.

All I'm saying is that for months people have been saying, quite a bit honestly, that the X-Wing doesn't need so much as a fix but more of a nudge. Alex even said as much when he said a little love. Also people have said more than anything else really the generics need a little push; to be sure not everyone but most from what I've read. And I could be mistaken. Either way guess what, we've gotten something that buff the X-Wing just a nudge. Give them something a little thematic and hlep the generics more than the named pilots and now what happens.

Now want something that "screams fix". A nudge isn't enough. Also rather than wait to see how this plays out in tournaments we want a better bigger more grand fix now because we don't want to wait until the card comes out and see how it does.

Sure FFG may come out with something else to add to your card count. But at least see how this plays out. Or the sky could be falling. Either way.

The X-wing's were showing off for the camera.

there was one scene where multiple x-wings did roll and dive, which isnt exactly a barrel roll or aileron, but it's close to the BR action. but it was mostly a dive towards the surface of the DS.

a new manuever? how about a "reverse boost", basically retro rockets, where you use a one forward or bank template and put it in the back guides and move backwards. of course this is gonna give a stress like its a red maneuver, but its an action, possibly given with the fabled Rogue Squadron title. R2 generics would be MUCH more valuable.

Something unique to the X-Wing I brought up with a while back...

Rogue Squadron

Title, X-Wing Only 0pts.

Your action bar gains the Loop-the-Loop icon (see below)

**Something else cool like 2 discounted mods, or an extra EPT.**

New action, called Loop-the Loop

This card explains the rules for performing a Loop-the-Loop action. To Loop-the-Loop follow these steps:

1. Choose the 1 straight maneuver template.

2. Set the maneuver template between the ship’s rear guides.

3. Move the ship to the opposite end of the template and slide the front guides of the ship into the template.

Performing a Loop-the-Loop does not count as executing a maneuver. A ship cannot Loop-the-Loop if this would cause its base to overlap with another ship’s base or an obstacle token or cause it to leave the play area.

I do like the idea of using the 1 banks as well, but I also think that would be too much as a normal action bar action and I also don't like the idea of an action bar action that gives stress. But that's just me. If the same thing were an elite ability for 2 points then yes, give it the banks and the stress.

That's why you make it a title. There's nothing saying a title can't grant an action, or that an action can't cause stress. Sorry if I was stepping on a previously visited idea though.

I agree with everything you say, except perhaps the Khiraxz comparison - that ship is now a lot more glassy than the X-with-a-mech. i was responding to the suggestion that, in addition to the integrated fix, x-wings also be given a free barrel roll. Hence my claim that that version of the X would overtake the B in its main roll, and would represent creep. I love the integrated fix, and I think its a very nicely done piece of game design.

Interesting couple of games either way. Almost mirror matching.

Hm.

R3 Astromech (1pt):

Astromech

When you reveal a (bank) manoeuvre, you may instead perform a (straight) manoeuvre of the same speed.

Helps high-PS pilots in their arc-hunting, so long as you had a decent idea where things were going to be to start with. Less overall coverage than Engine Upgrade... but also less forward-running (You instead get to closer range by picking the right speed to start with, and the X-wing has all the options here), and it's a 1pt generic... Which means you can rock Integrated Astromech while you're at it.

E-wings and X-wings are the ships two best carriers, though Horton with BTL-A4 is probably pretty appreciative too, while other aces find it a cost/benefit tradeoff - for instance, Corran doesn't care because he'd rather R2D2, and the speed is actually handy for his style of hit-and-run.

Really, I hope they release a couple more low-cost astromechs. We've literally got two generics at the moment, and there's plenty of design space left.

Almost like you'd want to see an Aces pack for X-wings and E-wings. With a couple extra copies of Integrated Astromech in them. Fancy that, eh?

It sounds like some of you want to just keep using R2-D2 for regenerating shields, but want X-wings to be able to arc dodge and face tank better.

If you want your T-65 X-wings to be the same as a T-70, just use the T-70.

I think you guys won't be happy until X-wings get a title that adds a 2nd astromech slot.

Dual Memory Core:

Title, X-wing only.

Not usable by T-70 X-wing.

Your ship gains .

You may not have more than

1 unique Astromech equipped (or more than 0 perhaps?).

cost 0-?

That's not a good idea. R2 Astromech + R2D2, anyone?

It just lets you recharge shields on speed 2 banks and turns.

If it isn't OP, people won't consider it a fix.

.

If it isn't OP, people won't consider it a fix.

What, like Chaardan Refit and Test Pilot? Autohrusters? Or the X1 and Advanced Targeting Computer? Reeeeaaally?

K the Adv fix was a *********** huge nudge, but not really OP. CR was definitely not OP, nor was Autothrusters.

People were expecting more than integrated astromech (or Ablative Trashcan as Im calling it), but c'mon its the ********* X Wing! The namesake of the whole game, one of the most iconic Star Wars symbols ever. It was pretty pathetic compared to everything post wave 1. Maybe not as bad as the TIE Adv, but not great either. I will be disappointed if IA is all that FFG do to bring the X Wing back.

The X should have a place in every Rebel list because of what its supposed to be, a game changing design which allowed the rebellion to go toe to toe with the numerically superior TIE. Ok, gameplay>lore, but the B was not supposed to be the goto fighter, its a heavy assault, weapon carrier. Seeing more Bs just doesnt make sense. I am keeping the faith, but just hope FFG dont fumble the chance to make the X Wing as good as it should be (for the right points obviously).

I think part of the problem is that the B Wings ability to carry two sets of munitions is devalued by the fact that most torps suck. So instead of using it as a heavy munitions carrier, people buy it to take advantage of it's shields, knife fighting ability and firepower. If people bought them with the intent of loading them up with torps, they wouldn't be stepping on the X Wings toes so much because they'd be in a whole other price bracket.

The B Wing just got lucky in that FFG didn't inextricably link it's ability to carry torps to it's role and price on the table. If the only reason to take one was to load two sets of torps on it, they'd never see play. But they also have 5 shields and 3 attack dice, so even without the torps they're a good buy.

Having said that, the X Wings problem is not the B Wing. The X Wings problems start and end with the X Wing. With an Integrated Astromech, I don't think taking an X Wing is actively harming your squad any more. They're OK now. Not great, but not terrible. Would I like to see them get a little boost? Sure. I'd like to see them be as popular as fat turrets or Soontir Fel. They're my favourite ship of the OT by a large margin and I wish they kicked ass in X Wing, but I'm happy with them just being OK. All I really want in any game is the feeling that I can take the list I want without hamstringing my ability to win games, and that's how I feel about the X Wing now.

2 games in, still loving Wedge with BB8 and PTL and IA. It's like a PTL B-Wing with Advanced Sensors, but PS9 and with a strong pilot ability.

2 games in, still loving Wedge with BB8 and PTL and IA. It's like a PTL B-Wing with Advanced Sensors, but PS9 and with a strong pilot ability.

shh...

Don't ruin our victim complex with your facts and experiences.

Move along people, move along! Nothing to see here folks. Its just a troll, move along......

With regards to only getting one IA in the T70 release, I'd rather get the 1 IA now and probably 2 in the likely X-Wing Aces rather than having to wait for the X-Wing Aces and getting nothing now.

With regards to IA itself, I'm wondering how it affects things if we look at its relation to EU slightly differently. Basically, the cost of EU on an T65 has effectively increased. Whereas before it used to cost 4 points, the effective cost now is as follows:

- If you were taking an astromech anyway, the new cost is 4 points plus you effectively lose a point of shield (Really the ability is more powerful than a point of shield, but we'll keep it simple).

- If you weren't planning on taking an astromech, the new cost is 3 points, plus the loss of a point of shield, plus the loss of extra green maneuvers on your dial.

EU isn't what I'd consider a cheap upgrade at the best of times, so I'm wondering for how many builds this increase in cost will push the EU into the realms of being too expensive.

2 games in, still loving Wedge with BB8 and PTL and IA. It's like a PTL B-Wing with Advanced Sensors, but PS9 and with a strong pilot ability.

It's a cool combo, but I just can't bring myself to blend the old and the new like that.

2 games in, still loving Wedge with BB8 and PTL and IA. It's like a PTL B-Wing with Advanced Sensors, but PS9 and with a strong pilot ability.

It's a cool combo, but I just can't bring myself to blend the old and the new like that.

See, I had that notion knocked out of me by the Wizards of the Coast Star Wars miniatures game. After seeing matches where, for example, Darth Bane and Darth Sidious took on Cade Skywalker and the Solo kids (that's only about 1300 years of crossover), sticking to fluff in-game became a bit of a non-issue.

In any event, you can just use Poe instead of Wedge if you really can't bring yourself to mix eras.

K the Adv fix was a *********** huge nudge, but not really OP...

Ehhhh... watching my friend turn a natural dice roll of blank and focus into crit, crit, hit seems pretty powerful to me. Adding a critical hit to every roll can be pretty devastating, especially for low agility ships.

But back to the X-Wing; I'd only consider this a fix if - like Chaardan, like Autothrusters, like the X1 title, like Bomb Loadout, Autoblaster Turret, Twin Laser Turret and like Twin Ion Engine - you got more than one copy of the card to a pack.

2 games in, still loving Wedge with BB8 and PTL and IA. It's like a PTL B-Wing with Advanced Sensors, but PS9 and with a strong pilot ability.

It's a cool combo, but I just can't bring myself to blend the old and the new like that.

See, I had that notion knocked out of me by the Wizards of the Coast Star Wars miniatures game. After seeing matches where, for example, Darth Bane and Darth Sidious took on Cade Skywalker and the Solo kids (that's only about 1300 years of crossover), sticking to fluff in-game became a bit of a non-issue.

In any event, you can just use Poe instead of Wedge if you really can't bring yourself to mix eras.

Wedge was supposed to be in the new movies, but the actor (Denis Lawson) rejected the role. Although since Wedge was played by at least 3 different actors, I don't know how much of an issue it will be.

K the Adv fix was a *********** huge nudge, but not really OP...

Ehhhh... watching my friend turn a natural dice roll of blank and focus into crit, crit, hit seems pretty powerful to me. Adding a critical hit to every roll can be pretty devastating, especially for low agility ships.

But back to the X-Wing; I'd only consider this a fix if - like Chaardan, like Autothrusters, like the X1 title, like Bomb Loadout, Autoblaster Turret, Twin Laser Turret and like Twin Ion Engine - you got more than one copy of the card to a pack.

That's why I'm assuming it isn't the be all and end all 'T-65 is fine now' Fix.

That and you'll never actually have enough to put on all of your T-70s, as you don't get one in the core.

X-wings already come in 2 core sets, 2 small ship expansions, and as an extra in a huge ship. Why are you guys so sure X-wing Aces is coming down the line?

If anything, it might be a fighter duel pack featuring an alternate paint T-70 X-wing versus whatever ship Kylo Ren flies.

With regards to IA itself, I'm wondering how it affects things if we look at its relation to EU slightly differently. Basically, the cost of EU on an T65 has effectively increased. Whereas before it used to cost 4 points, the effective cost now is as follows:

- If you were taking an astromech anyway, the new cost is 4 points plus you effectively lose a point of shield (Really the ability is more powerful than a point of shield, but we'll keep it simple).

- If you weren't planning on taking an astromech, the new cost is 3 points, plus the loss of a point of shield, plus the loss of extra green maneuvers on your dial.

OTOH you could get pissed that FFG have now decreased build diversity by forcing choice. Why couldnt you have both if you are willing to pay the points? This is the problem with a fix that revolves around the droid rather than the ship.

I'm not sure autothrusters is ideal on the t-70. Consider that autothrusters must prevent 1 damage, preferably a crit, and it does this at double cost of r2+ integrated.

With 2 agility, any highly accurate out of arc shot (range 1 chiraneau, dash + hlc.) focus+tl 3 attack, is going to hit. Autothrusters may relieve some damage, but only the 3:5/8ths of a time you have a blank. So on Poe... Who has perpetual focus defense... It may be doing even less. Especially since integrated lets you actively cancel a crit.

I doubt it's as clear cut as people think