Yeah, I honestly think getting into X-Wing is easier now then it was. You have many more options on what to buy to make good lists, and are less likely to end up with duplicates due to lack of other options.

For example I bet you never once considered buying four Lambada Shuttles for the sake of having four advanced sensors.

But I still only have one copy of sensor jammer :'(

K-wing, Punisher and Starviper all cost $20. That's not a coincidence.

You're right, they're all quite a bit larger then other small base ships. That also doesn't change the fact that the E-Wing and HWK-290 came with 6 upgrade cards each.

So there is clearly no fast and hard rule on how many upgrades come with a small ship expansion, or even with a $X expansion. So there is once again, no reason they couldn't include 2 copies of these cards in the T-70 pack. 6 cards in a $15 has happened before.

I would be much happier with two copies of the card as well but I'm not surprised that there is only one. Just kinda funny that so much of the complaining boils down to:

a) this is a non-fix and doesn't do nearly enough and won't make me want to play X-wings and

b) we need more copies of the card

One of the benefits of the ruined 2 ship ice cream smeared child meta is that the game isn't very expensive if all you need are the innards of a core set, a YT-2400, an E-Wing, and a handful of loose upgrades off of eBay to field a competitive list.

a) this is a non-fix and doesn't do nearly enough and won't make me want to play X-wings and

b) we need more copies of the card

This upgrade does not IMO do enough to make T-65 X-Wings competitive. That doesn't mean it's a bad upgrade however and doesn't mean I don't want it.

Guys can we get back to praising the Y-wing as Lord of the -Wings ?

no, that's the K-wing

the Y-wing is a strong contender for a new meta presence, but the K-wing is simply glorious in its utter silliness

So I guess the real qustion is if players are actually gonna want to play 4x Rookies with R2 and IA with Bandit. Is that list competitive enough for people to not want to take AC/DC, Brobots, PWT, BBBBZ, TLTs or any other current meta list.

I think the answer will be yes for some. Not YES! But certainly not meh either.

I played Rookiee XX Hawk Hawk yesterday with the new fix against a CrackShot Black Squadron swarm. I lost, but it was down to a single damaged Tie fighter in the end.

So I guess the real qustion is if players are actually gonna want to play 4x Rookies with R2 and IA with Bandit. Is that list competitive enough for people to not want to take AC/DC, Brobots, PWT, BBBBZ, TLTs or any other current meta list.

I think the answer will be yes for some. Not YES! But certainly not meh either.

imo, the real question is "will Wedge finally come back!?!?"

BB-8 Wedge is silly fun, but he gets shafted by turrets and HLCs. One extra health isn't exactly panacea, but hey it's also a marked improvement for no additional cost

K-wing, Punisher and Starviper all cost $20. That's not a coincidence.

You're right, they're all quite a bit larger then other small base ships. That also doesn't change the fact that the E-Wing and HWK-290 came with 6 upgrade cards each.

So there is clearly no fast and hard rule on how many upgrades come with a small ship expansion, or even with a $X expansion. So there is once again, no reason they couldn't include 2 copies of these cards in the T-70 pack. 6 cards in a $15 has happened before.

The E-wing didn't, actually. 6 upgrade cards in a $15 pack seems to be very much the exception to the rule. We've also never seen a duplicate upgrade in a small expansion outside of Proton Torpedoes in the Y-wing (Which was a mistake in most people's opinion).

The E-wing didn't, actually.

Ok but the HWK still did. So there is still clearly no rule that states no more then 5 of an upgrade in a single expansion.

Also as you point out there have been cases of 2 of a single upgrade in an expansion. I also reject the idea that somehow the K-Wing, Punisher and Starviper don't count, just because they cost more, since the reason they cost more, is due to the lager model, and not the amount of cardboard that comes with it.

So once again, no one has provided a single shred of evidence that there is some reason they couldn't include a 2nd copy of the integrated astro in the T-70 pack.

Has there been small ship expansions with more then 5 cards? Yes there has.

Has there been small ship expansions with more then one copy of a card? Yes there has.

Is there any reason at all they can't include 2 copies of that upgrade in the T-70? No there isn't.

Quite frankly the mere idea that FFG can't include another copy of a 1 cent card in the T-70 expansion is absurd.

The E-wing didn't, actually.

Ok but the HWK still did. So there is still clearly no rule that states no more then 5 of an upgrade in a single expansion.

Also as you point out there have been cases of 2 of a single upgrade in an expansion. I also reject the idea that somehow the K-Wing, Punisher and Starviper don't count, just because they cost more, since the reason they cost more, is due to the lager model, and not the amount of cardboard that comes with it.

So once again, no one has provided a single shred of evidence that there is some reason they couldn't include a 2nd copy of the integrated astro in the T-70 pack.

Has there been small ship expansions with more then 5 cards? Yes there has.

Has there been small ship expansions with more then one copy of a card? Yes there has.

Is there any reason at all they can't include 2 copies of that upgrade in the T-70? No there isn't.

Quite frankly the mere idea that FFG can't include another copy of a 1 cent card in the T-70 expansion is absurd.

The ironic thing about all this is that if there was 2 or 4 copies of the cards included I'd definitely buy at least 2 x T-70 and 2 x TIE F/O. With 1 copy however I definitely buying 1, printing my own cards and waiting for other expansions to come out.

The issue with the X-Wing has always been that it is a jouster that can't joust. The attempts to add boost onto it was an attempt to fix the "Its a jouster" part.

Now how much more effective does IAstro make it? Lets compare to a B-Wing since we can assume their attack values are the same and are dealing the same damage.

Assumption: 3 dice attacks with a focus, defender has no mods
Blue Squad: 22 Pts Takes 1.9 hits/attack on avergae. 8/1.9 = 4.2 shots to take it down.
Rookie w/R2: 22 pts Takes 1.5 hits/attack on average. 5/1.5 = 3.3 shots to take it down.
Rookie w/Integrated R2: 22 pts Takes 1.5 hits/attack on average. 6/1.5 = 4 shots to take it down.

Assumption: 2 dice attacks with a focus, defender has no mods
Blue Squad: 22 Pts Takes 1.2 hits/attack on avergae. 8/1.2 = 6.6 shots to take it down.
Rookie w/R2: 22 pts Takes 0.82 hits/attack on average. 5/0.82 = 6.09 shots to take it down.
Rookie w/Integrated R2: 22 pts Takes 0.82 hits/attack on average. 6/0.82 = 7.3 shots to take it down.

Looks like it brings it very close to a Blue B-Wings jousting value, so I would call this mission accomplished. Now the Xs will have greater variance so sometimes you will get much better and much worse results.

Edit: added bolds to make it easier to read.

The issue with the X-Wing has always been that it is a jouster that can't joust. The attempts to add boost onto it was an attempt to fix the "Its a jouster" part.

Now how much more effective does IAstro make it? Lets compare to a B-Wing since we can assume their attack values are the same and are dealing the same damage.

Assumption: 3 dice attacks with a focus, defender has no mods

Blue Squad: 22 Pts Takes 1.9 hits/attack on avergae. 8/1.9 = 4.2 shots to take it down.

Rookie w/R2: 22 pts Takes 1.5 hits/attack on average. 5/1.5 = 3.3 shots to take it down.

Rookie w/Integrated R2: 22 pts Takes 1.5 hits/attack on average. 6/1.5 = 4 shots to take it down.

Assumption: 2 dice attacks with a focus, defender has no mods

Blue Squad: 22 Pts Takes 1.2 hits/attack on avergae. 8/1.2 = 6.6 shots to take it down.

Rookie w/R2: 22 pts Takes 0.82 hits/attack on average. 5/0.82 = 6.09 shots to take it down.

Rookie w/Integrated R2: 22 pts Takes 0.82 hits/attack on average. 6/0.82 = 7.3 shots to take it down.

Looks like it brings it very close to a Blue B-Wings jousting value, so I would call this mission accomplished. Now the Xs will have greater variance so sometimes you will get much better and much worse results.

Good Work!

Looks like it brings it very close to a Blue B-Wings jousting value, so I would call this mission accomplished.

If that's true, and it's not that I don't believe you I just like to see another take on the numbers... It may be better then I think. But I just don't believe that a single extra HP is going to bring it on par with the B-wing that can barrel roll.

While I agree that a rookie with this and a 1pt astromech is potentially much more valuable as a 22 point ship choice now, I just want to re-iterate my real reaction to seeing this:

This is a Biggs deal.

Looks like it brings it very close to a Blue B-Wings jousting value, so I would call this mission accomplished.

If that's true, and it's not that I don't believe you I just like to see another take on the numbers... It may be better then I think. But I just don't believe that a single extra HP is going to bring it on par with the B-wing that can barrel roll.

What if its a direct hit card you're cancelling? hmm?

Any chance in a few weeks after things calm down a bit people might start saying 'yeah this is a good fix for the ole' T-65 X-Wing'? Nah... we'll always want more.

What if its a direct hit card you're cancelling? hmm?

Odds of drawing a direct hit is low enough, that it shouldn't be a factor in how good the card is.

Also as I pointed out in another thread...

If you want 4 copies of this 'fix' you need to buy 4 T-70 expansions giving you 5 T-70's, which is one more then you can use. That is not something that is typical of FFG to do.

Looks like it brings it very close to a Blue B-Wings jousting value, so I would call this mission accomplished.

If that's true, and it's not that I don't believe you I just like to see another take on the numbers... It may be better then I think. But I just don't believe that a single extra HP is going to bring it on par with the B-wing that can barrel roll.

Could you run some numbers then? I would like to see a different take as well.

Looks like it brings it very close to a Blue B-Wings jousting value, so I would call this mission accomplished.

If that's true, and it's not that I don't believe you I just like to see another take on the numbers... It may be better then I think. But I just don't believe that a single extra HP is going to bring it on par with the B-wing that can barrel roll.

What if its a direct hit card you're cancelling? hmm?

I think the 5 shields on the B-Wing vs the targeted cancellation of the X-Wing makes this a push most of the time.

Could you run some numbers then?

I wish I could, but math is not my strong suit. I'm not doubting your numbers, but I'm not convinced that this upgrade will make a 22 point X-Wing equal to a 22 point B-Wing, especially when MJ has determined that the X-Wing should be a 19 point ship.

I just don't think this upgrade is worth 3 points...

I think being able to read a crit card, then decide not to take it, is pretty powerful. Avoid a killing blow, a direct hit, or another debilitating crit effect? for 0 points? sign me up!

Could you run some numbers then?

I wish I could, but math is not my strong suit. I'm not doubting your numbers, but I'm not convinced that this upgrade will make a 22 point X-Wing equal to a 22 point B-Wing, especially when MJ has determined that the X-Wing should be a 19 point ship.

I just don't think this upgrade is worth 3 points...

Perhaps but damage mitigation is fairly important.

[Edit] Especially since MJ was recommending a Hull Upgrade and this can act more like a shield. Not as powerful since you loose your mech but still important. You avoid not on the damage but possibly a critical as well which a hull hit would not stop.

I think being able to read a crit card, then decide not to take it, is pretty powerful.

It's worth taking no doubt. As I said I'd consider it an auto-include on any X-Wing that has a Astromech anyway. So Tarn w/R7, any named pilot with R2-D2 or the other regen mech. Stress bot, ect... All are no question going to want this upgrade.

But being able to throw out a damage card? I don't think it's worth 3 points. But if someone can prove me wrong I got no problem with that.

The other issue I have with it is the cost in $. Having to buy 4 T-70 expansions (giving me 5 T-70's) so I can run a 4 X-Wing list is IMO simply not acceptable. It also goes against the way FFG has so far released true fixes, which is 2+ cards in a single pack. That alone makes this a bad fix, even if it's a good upgrade.

I think being able to read a crit card, then decide not to take it, is pretty powerful.

It's worth taking no doubt. As I said I'd consider it an auto-include on any X-Wing that has a Astromech anyway. So Tarn w/R7, any named pilot with R2-D2 or the other regen mech. Stress bot, ect... All are no question going to want this upgrade.

But being able to throw out a damage card? I don't think it's worth 3 points. But if someone can prove me wrong I got no problem with that.

The other issue I have with it is the cost in $. Having to buy 4 T-70 expansions (giving me 5 T-70's) so I can run a 4 X-Wing list is IMO simply not acceptable. It also goes against the way FFG has so far released true fixes, which is 2+ cards in a single pack. That alone makes this a bad fix, even if it's a good upgrade.

I agree with you about the card inclusions. BUT, the T-70 also comes with Targeting Astromech, likely a good pairing with the IA mod. Sounds like perform some sort of manuever (color or direction) and get a free target lock. It also helps those torpedoes.

It could also be a 1 point astromech. So you'll get 2 wanted cards in the T-70 expansion. (but yeah...sure would be nice to get more)

I think being able to read a crit card, then decide not to take it, is pretty powerful.

It's worth taking no doubt. As I said I'd consider it an auto-include on any X-Wing that has a Astromech anyway. So Tarn w/R7, any named pilot with R2-D2 or the other regen mech. Stress bot, ect... All are no question going to want this upgrade.

But being able to throw out a damage card? I don't think it's worth 3 points. But if someone can prove me wrong I got no problem with that.

The other issue I have with it is the cost in $. Having to buy 4 T-70 expansions (giving me 5 T-70's) so I can run a 4 X-Wing list is IMO simply not acceptable. It also goes against the way FFG has so far released true fixes, which is 2+ cards in a single pack. That alone makes this a bad fix, even if it's a good upgrade.

If a shield upgrade is worth 4 points on an X (and its more like 3 points) then this is worth 3 points. Plus the special ability of the droid is worth a point by itself, so its more like 2 pts.

Also, you have no need to run 4 X-Wings with this. I would consider it subpar to BBXX or BAXY or many other combos that cover each other strengths and weaknesses. I could make a case for XXXXZ, but I dont think that would be that different/better than bbbbz to warrant buying new cards for. BBXXZ wouldn't be a bad choice either as the two ships have subtle differences.