I'm thinking Torkil, Twin Laser Turret, Greedo, with higher PS ships in support to strip shields.

Is 1 point and the potential downside for Greedo worth it to turn the first TLT damage face up?

I'm sold. Greedo gets around one of the limits of TLT.

My only worry is it would work on the first TLT shot only, so if you miss with the first shot, his positive effect is wasted.

Mind you, I'm considering pairing him with Razzi and Kavil, so hopefully that'll be one less defence dice for the attack anyway...

IMO, the best place for Greedo in a post wave-7 scum list is on a Determination Bossk with mangler cannon. But I could certainly think of list where he would fit on a HWK, especially if you pair him with higher PS buddies to strip away shields from targets first.

If you make sure it's the last ship to shoot, I don't think it will too often be an issue. Saving defensive tokens for lower PS shots is rarely a good decision by the target.

I know that both shots count as 1 attack for things like R3-A2, because it has the "ATTACK: .. " header, indicating that anything following the colon is considered part of the 1 Attack.

Presumably it works for Greedo too...

Good point Rividius! That makes it sound even more appealing...

Thanks for the replies all, going to give it a try I think!

Here's the list I'm thinking (inspired in part by my opponent last Sunday!)

Kavil - Autoblaster Turret, Bomb Loadout, Proton Bomb, Extra Munitions, "Genius", Engine Upgrade

or

Talonbane Cobra - Predator, Engine Upgrade, Glitterstim

plus

Latts Razzi - Weapons Engineer

Torkil Mux - Twin Laser Turret, Greedo, Inertial Dampners

Just for funsies...

but - you only declare the TLT or Cluster missile attack once - but you do attack twice.

I think how it goes is that Greedo will make the first TLT attack that hits face up.

The bigger problem with your build is that it is on a 1 shielded scumhawk.

So putting it up against Greedo's nemesis Han Solo you will take 1 shield token off and possibly another shield token off in which Han will return fire with more than 1 hit that gets through. Your only shield token will get stripped and Greedo will start flipping cards on yourself faster than you can get a card on Han.

Sum it all up, remember the Catina scene? Which one in particular? It doesn't matter, Greedo died in all three of them.

The bigger problem with your build is that it is on a 1 shielded scumhawk.

So putting it up against Greedo's nemesis Han Solo you will take 1 shield token off and possibly another shield token off in which Han will return fire with more than 1 hit that gets through. Your only shield token will get stripped and Greedo will start flipping cards on yourself faster than you can get a card on Han...

That's why there's two other ships in the list who all shoot before Torkil does.

The bigger problem with your build is that it is on a 1 shielded scumhawk.

So putting it up against Greedo's nemesis Han Solo you will take 1 shield token off and possibly another shield token off in which Han will return fire with more than 1 hit that gets through. Your only shield token will get stripped and Greedo will start flipping cards on yourself faster than you can get a card on Han...

That's why there's two other ships in the list who all shoot before Torkil does.

Still TLT does at a max 2 damage where fat Han can do up to 4, also if Fat Han is doing 4 then you definitely not using TLT.

Since Torkil has Greedo that will be the first ship to go. You need to move greedo elsewhere but since you say you want higher PS ships to take off shields you are obviously talking about Hired guns which Greedo can't get on as scum-wings have no crew slots. So the scenario will have the same result.

Feel free to try it though, but the same conclusion will be you don't want Greedo on a scumhawk

I'm not overly sure why you're comparing a 27 point ship in isolation to a 50+ point ship. Of course a 50+ point ship is likely to do a number on a 27 point ship.

Or why you're talking about Hired Guns when I posted the list I'm contemplating using above.

Or why you think I'd want Greedo on a higher PS ship when the entire point is to have the ship with Greedo firing last, once all the other ships in the list have shot at his target.

Or why you're assuming I'm going to be flying this list against a Fat Han in the first place.

The irritating thing is that

Scum Y with TLT + unhinged x3

Mux, TLT, Greedo is 101pts...

So either change Mux's TLT to an ICT, or drop an unhinged from a Y.

Problem is the droid-less Y wing has a lot less functionality, can't straight 3 or turn 3 and focus for instance whilst getting out of Range 1.

In fact that's an interesting debate: which is the better list:

Y-Wing, Unhinged, TLT x4

or

Y-Wing, Unhinged, TLT x3

Torkhil Mux, ICT, Greedo

The first list has more shots, more HP and therefore more staying power, which you need with the TLT's consistent but low damage output. Games go long.

The Mux list is a bit more fragile, with Mux being a clear target and going down fast to his own Greedo no doubt. But he does let you totally wreck at least 1 ship and can allow the first targeted Y to shoot first before it dies. And he'll take the heat off your Ys, whilst Ionising your first target out of the donut hole.

The bigger problem with your build is that it is on a 1 shielded scumhawk.

So putting it up against Greedo's nemesis Han Solo you will take 1 shield token off and possibly another shield token off in which Han will return fire with more than 1 hit that gets through. Your only shield token will get stripped and Greedo will start flipping cards on yourself faster than you can get a card on Han...

That's why there's two other ships in the list who all shoot before Torkil does.

The problem is that Torkil already has a target painted on his back and now you make it even easier for your opponent to kill him.

I think the Yx4 is probably the better option there jonboyjon1990 - no priority target, more staying power and more damage output (although 6 shots prior to the HWK would be more than enough to strip tokens away and set up an ion).

My list is using Torkil as a spoiler (shunting a target down the PS order) and as a potential finisher (dropping a late critical hit on an already damaged ship). Ideally you need some other targets alongside Torkil in that scenario - you don't want him to be the first priority. If my opponent is targetting Torkil ahead of Kavil or Cobra, then that's fine by me.

I'm not overly sure why you're comparing a 27 point ship in isolation to a 50+ point ship. Of course a 50+ point ship is likely to do a number on a 27 point ship.

Or why you're talking about Hired Guns when I posted the list I'm contemplating using above.

Or why you think I'd want Greedo on a higher PS ship when the entire point is to have the ship with Greedo firing last, once all the other ships in the list have shot at his target.

Or why you're assuming I'm going to be flying this list against a Fat Han in the first place.

True the 25 points don't equal the 50+ point of Han but lets face it. If you are not flying against Han then you are flying against Dash, or you are flying against IG-88 with the title and HLC and one of those 88s is going to be B. The point I am making no matter how you justify it Greedo doesn't do well in a 1 shielded ship in any scenario.

The bigger problem with your build is that it is on a 1 shielded scumhawk.

So putting it up against Greedo's nemesis Han Solo you will take 1 shield token off and possibly another shield token off in which Han will return fire with more than 1 hit that gets through. Your only shield token will get stripped and Greedo will start flipping cards on yourself faster than you can get a card on Han...

That's why there's two other ships in the list who all shoot before Torkil does.

The problem is that Torkil already has a target painted on his back and now you make it even easier for your opponent to kill him.

^This^ also. If you want to use Greedo don't put him in a scumhawk unless you want greedo to die which is alright as he dies in all the movies. You can use Torkil and Greedo but for the sake of the force don't put them in the same ship. Unless you want to include deadmans switch.

So TLT on a scum hawk worth it yeah it is worth it, I would throw the deadmans switch on it to act as a cover for the bubble so that ships will want to stay in range. But Greedo on a Scum Hawk is never worth it no matter how you build it.

...unless you want to include deadmans switch.

Now there's a fun idea worth considering.

Torkil's ability is range 1-2, DMS requires range 1; fine, switch the TLT out for an Ion Cannon Turret. There's the one extra point required to switch out Inertial Dampners for ICT. Get up close to your target, drop it to PS0, shoot it, ion it, Greedo it and DARE it to shoot you back...

They only problem with Deadman's Switch, is you can do: Spice Runner, TLT, DMS, and you're left with 1pt. But there's nothing to do with it.

Still a cool idea to get around the doughnut hole though. Although you're opponent knows when you're likely to die, he's probably going to be shooting before you, so just stays out of the hole, kills you. Or if you inexplicably survive he takes one last TLT shot.

As long as he shoots last on your list it's probably worth it. Sable's list for Plano used that, right?

How about splitting Mux and Greedo? Sure, you drop from 3 Ys and a HWK, but you make target priority more difficult. Could swap Greedo's HWK to an ABT with Deadman's Switch for up-close shenanigans!

Good point Rividius! That makes it sound even more appealing...

Thanks for the replies all, going to give it a try I think!

Here's the list I'm thinking (inspired in part by my opponent last Sunday!)

Kavil - Autoblaster Turret, Bomb Loadout, Proton Bomb, Extra Munitions, "Genius", Engine Upgrade

or

Talonbane Cobra - Predator, Engine Upgrade, Glitterstim

plus

Latts Razzi - Weapons Engineer

Torkil Mux - Twin Laser Turret, Greedo, Inertial Dampners

Just for funsies...

I would try to squeeze a Tactical Jammer onto Latts Razzi. If you keep the HWK behind the Hound's Tooth, you make it a much less tempting target. Unfortunately this means you won't get much use our of Torkhil Mux's special ability, so you might want to downgrade the shop to a Spice Runner and use the extra points on upgrades.

How about splitting Mux and Greedo? Sure, you drop from 3 Ys and a HWK, but you make target priority more difficult. Could swap Greedo's HWK to an ABT with Deadman's Switch for up-close shenanigans!

Syndicate Thug (18)

Twin Laser Turret (6)

Unhinged Astromech (1)

Syndicate Thug (18)

Twin Laser Turret (6)

Unhinged Astromech (1)

Torkil Mux (19)

Twin Laser Turret (6)

Recon Specialist (3)

Spice Runner (16)

Ion Cannon Turret (5)

Greedo (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Are you putting the B-Wing title on those Thugs Sierra? I've found one or two possible damage a round can make all the difference. Especially if you already have two other turrets in your list.

I would go with no title. Fly them in formation and wail on whoever Torkil makes PS0, even if they're out of arc.

Yes, and I actually really enjoyed it. This is the particular list I have fielded with great success:

Bosskortunist

Palob Godalhi [Veteran Instincts, Twin Laser Turret, Greedo] (28)

Bossk [Opportunist, “Mangler” Cannon, Mercenary Copilot, K4 Security Droid, Tactician] (50)

N’Dru Suhlak [Proton Rockets, Lone Wolf] (22)

Suhlak was the weak link in the game I played and will probably be replaced with a Cartel Marauder.

However you choose to implement Greedo and the TLT, you need to have the flexibility to shoot in whatever order you want. Mux works great for this, or making the HWK that Greedo is on the same PS as the rest of your list (such as mine) will give you the flexibility to get that crit through when it will be to hull.

To get past the downside of the first attack hitting, just use your tokens/modifications on the first roll if Greedo is going to matter.