I like.

I like a loooot.

I feel Defiance will be a mandatory upgrade for the MC80. . . It is just too good not to take for 5 points. . .

Yeah, it's excellent. I think Home One is an auto-include too though.

I don't know. It only works best for gunline's and it does not work on itself so if you lose your supporting Frigate gunline you lose out of its ability.

Though with all that red dice being thrown about it will help clear up a blank here and there..

need to see Independence as well

it's not uncommon to see Armada ships sporting some stupidly good titles, so it'll be up to us to specialize them according to the needs of our fleets

no joke, though, Defiance is ******* nuts

I imagine someone complaining that it's straight better than paragon (it is easier to enable) whilst forgetting we're talking about the MC80 here and not the Afmk2

It better be a straight upgrade to Paragon! We are talking large ship and medium ships here.

From what I can see, it looks like the Independence has a Squadron icon at the start of its text. That makes sense, as in the stories, the Independence was a starfighter carrier and training ship. Plus the Defiance is great on the Assault refit, so it stands to reason that they'd have a title that works well on the Command refit.

From what I can see, it looks like the Independence has a Squadron icon at the start of its text. That makes sense, as in the stories, the Independence was a starfighter carrier and training ship. Plus the Defiance is great on the Assault refit, so it stands to reason that they'd have a title that works well on the Command refit.

I LOVE Defiance on the Assault Cruiser. This allows me to get RIGHT in there and hit things very hard!

It better be a straight upgrade to Paragon! We are talking large ship and medium ships here.

Still, same prices for the upgrades, but defiance is without a doubt the clear winner of both. Keeps me worried that FFG might go the dark path of slightly overpowering each new wave over the previous once to keep people buying in..

It better be a straight upgrade to Paragon! We are talking large ship and medium ships here.

Still, same prices for the upgrades, but defiance is without a doubt the clear winner of both. Keeps me worried that FFG might go the dark path of slightly overpowering each new wave over the previous once to keep people buying in..

These are literally the FIRST large ships we've seen, of course they're going to be comparatively stronger than the two smaller classes.

With the addition of wave two, each side only has two small ships, two medium, and one large.

We can probably afford to wait until each side has at least two large ships before we start complaining about power creep.

We know very little about the MC30. . .

It better be a straight upgrade to Paragon! We are talking large ship and medium ships here.

Still, same prices for the upgrades, but defiance is without a doubt the clear winner of both. Keeps me worried that FFG might go the dark path of slightly overpowering each new wave over the previous once to keep people buying in..

These are literally the FIRST large ships we've seen, of course they're going to be comparatively stronger than the two smaller classes.

With the addition of wave two, each side only has two small ships, two medium, and one large.

We can probably afford to wait until each side has at least two large ships before we start complaining about power creep.

Well, so far upgrade cards have all been same price for each ship size, so while titles are a specific type of upgrade I think it is worth mentioning that a similar costed upgrade (title) card has far greater value for the large ship than for the medium ship.

Thats all.

It better be a straight upgrade to Paragon! We are talking large ship and medium ships here.

Still, same prices for the upgrades, but defiance is without a doubt the clear winner of both. Keeps me worried that FFG might go the dark path of slightly overpowering each new wave over the previous once to keep people buying in..

These are literally the FIRST large ships we've seen, of course they're going to be comparatively stronger than the two smaller classes.

With the addition of wave two, each side only has two small ships, two medium, and one large.

We can probably afford to wait until each side has at least two large ships before we start complaining about power creep.

Well, so far upgrade cards have all been same price for each ship size, so while titles are a specific type of upgrade I think it is worth mentioning that a similar costed upgrade (title) card has far greater value for the large ship than for the medium ship.

Thats all.

So yes they are the same points, you have that BUT one is for a ship that is 72 points to 81 points (easier to drop into a 400 point list since 5 points is not that much in a ship that costs less than a quarter of your points) and the Assault Cruiser is 106 to 114 which is above your quarter points mark and thus 5 points actually becomes more important.

It better be a straight upgrade to Paragon! We are talking large ship and medium ships here.

Still, same prices for the upgrades, but defiance is without a doubt the clear winner of both. Keeps me worried that FFG might go the dark path of slightly overpowering each new wave over the previous once to keep people buying in..

These are literally the FIRST large ships we've seen, of course they're going to be comparatively stronger than the two smaller classes.

With the addition of wave two, each side only has two small ships, two medium, and one large.

We can probably afford to wait until each side has at least two large ships before we start complaining about power creep.

Well, so far upgrade cards have all been same price for each ship size, so while titles are a specific type of upgrade I think it is worth mentioning that a similar costed upgrade (title) card has far greater value for the large ship than for the medium ship.

Thats all.

I don't think it is similar in costs though.

So yes they are the same points, you have that BUT one is for a ship that is 72 points to 81 points (easier to drop into a 400 point list since 5 points is not that much in a ship that costs less than a quarter of your points) and the Assault Cruiser is 106 to 114 which is above your quarter points mark and thus 5 points actually becomes more important.

That still applies to all upgrade cards available, and yet they so far all have the same absolute point cost and effect for each ship size.

It better be a straight upgrade to Paragon! We are talking large ship and medium ships here.

Still, same prices for the upgrades, but defiance is without a doubt the clear winner of both. Keeps me worried that FFG might go the dark path of slightly overpowering each new wave over the previous once to keep people buying in..

These are literally the FIRST large ships we've seen, of course they're going to be comparatively stronger than the two smaller classes.

With the addition of wave two, each side only has two small ships, two medium, and one large.

We can probably afford to wait until each side has at least two large ships before we start complaining about power creep.

Well, so far upgrade cards have all been same price for each ship size, so while titles are a specific type of upgrade I think it is worth mentioning that a similar costed upgrade (title) card has far greater value for the large ship than for the medium ship.

Thats all.

I don't think it is similar in costs though.

So yes they are the same points, you have that BUT one is for a ship that is 72 points to 81 points (easier to drop into a 400 point list since 5 points is not that much in a ship that costs less than a quarter of your points) and the Assault Cruiser is 106 to 114 which is above your quarter points mark and thus 5 points actually becomes more important.

That still applies to all upgrade cards available, and yet they so far all have the same absolute point cost and effect for each ship size.

If I make my 72 point ship cost 77 points he is about a 5th of my points. If I make my 114 point ship cost 119 it is now 14 points shy of being 1/3rd of my points.

While upgrades cost the same they are proportional to what you put them on.

It better be a straight upgrade to Paragon! We are talking large ship and medium ships here.

Still, same prices for the upgrades, but defiance is without a doubt the clear winner of both. Keeps me worried that FFG might go the dark path of slightly overpowering each new wave over the previous once to keep people buying in..

These are literally the FIRST large ships we've seen, of course they're going to be comparatively stronger than the two smaller classes.

With the addition of wave two, each side only has two small ships, two medium, and one large.

We can probably afford to wait until each side has at least two large ships before we start complaining about power creep.

Well, so far upgrade cards have all been same price for each ship size, so while titles are a specific type of upgrade I think it is worth mentioning that a similar costed upgrade (title) card has far greater value for the large ship than for the medium ship.

Thats all.

I don't think it is similar in costs though.

So yes they are the same points, you have that BUT one is for a ship that is 72 points to 81 points (easier to drop into a 400 point list since 5 points is not that much in a ship that costs less than a quarter of your points) and the Assault Cruiser is 106 to 114 which is above your quarter points mark and thus 5 points actually becomes more important.

That still applies to all upgrade cards available, and yet they so far all have the same absolute point cost and effect for each ship size.

It boils down to percentages.

If I make my 72 point ship cost 77 points he is about a 5th of my points. If I make my 114 point ship cost 119 it is now 14 points shy of being 1/3rd of my points.

While upgrades cost the same they are proportional to what you put them on.

That's not right at all, points are by design intended to be equivalent regardless of what it goes on. That's the whole intent of using them as a balancing factor, that 5 points of stuff in a vacuum is roughly equal to 5 points of other stuff. That being said, I think this is roughly equivalent to paragon due to being fairly easy to play around. Activate ships that end in its front arc, 2 red and a black isn't scary, or activate ships that can't get shot at by it. Not to mention it has the same weakness as home one, where it could be potentially useless if its your last ship. Especially if you have iniative. Paragon has its downsides too and probably is a point overcosted imo, but it does function mostly independent of the opponents choices

The MC80 cant have gunnery team which would make good use of this title.

Both are stronk with advanced gunnery.

(seriously people, the Advanced Gunnery objective in my paragon lists IS A TRAP. STOP CHOOSING IT!!! YOU ARE JUST GONNA DIE! xD)

It better be a straight upgrade to Paragon! We are talking large ship and medium ships here.

Still, same prices for the upgrades, but defiance is without a doubt the clear winner of both. Keeps me worried that FFG might go the dark path of slightly overpowering each new wave over the previous once to keep people buying in..

These are literally the FIRST large ships we've seen, of course they're going to be comparatively stronger than the two smaller classes.

With the addition of wave two, each side only has two small ships, two medium, and one large.

We can probably afford to wait until each side has at least two large ships before we start complaining about power creep.

Actually....

The rebels will have 3 small (CR-90, Neb-B, MC-30), 1 medium (AFMII), and 1 large (MC-80)

The Imps will have 2 small (Raider, Glad), 1 medium (Vic), and 1 large (Imp)

I bet Independence is the allow fighters to move 4 but not attack card.

B-Wing Carrier!

Am I correct in thinking that as Defiant is a card effect the die is added during the modify step rather than the gather dice pool step prior to rolling? Therefore can be of any colour ignoring range restrictions?

It better be a straight upgrade to Paragon! We are talking large ship and medium ships here.

Still, same prices for the upgrades, but defiance is without a doubt the clear winner of both. Keeps me worried that FFG might go the dark path of slightly overpowering each new wave over the previous once to keep people buying in..

These are literally the FIRST large ships we've seen, of course they're going to be comparatively stronger than the two smaller classes.

With the addition of wave two, each side only has two small ships, two medium, and one large.

We can probably afford to wait until each side has at least two large ships before we start complaining about power creep.

Actually....

The rebels will have 3 small (CR-90, Neb-B, MC-30), 1 medium (AFMII), and 1 large (MC-80)

The Imps will have 2 small (Raider, Glad), 1 medium (Vic), and 1 large (Imp)

You are correct, sir.

For some reason I was thinking the MC-30 was medium, and I have no idea where I got the second Imperial medium from.

It better be a straight upgrade to Paragon! We are talking large ship and medium ships here.

Still, same prices for the upgrades, but defiance is without a doubt the clear winner of both. Keeps me worried that FFG might go the dark path of slightly overpowering each new wave over the previous once to keep people buying in..

These are literally the FIRST large ships we've seen, of course they're going to be comparatively stronger than the two smaller classes.

With the addition of wave two, each side only has two small ships, two medium, and one large.

We can probably afford to wait until each side has at least two large ships before we start complaining about power creep.

Actually....

The rebels will have 3 small (CR-90, Neb-B, MC-30), 1 medium (AFMII), and 1 large (MC-80)

The Imps will have 2 small (Raider, Glad), 1 medium (Vic), and 1 large (Imp)

You are correct, sir.

For some reason I was thinking the MC-30 was medium, and I have no idea where I got the second Imperial medium from.

The Glad and MC-30 are a outliers of the small category. Being the largest, maybe they should be called Heavy Smalls, or perhaps biggie smalls.

Well the MC30 is a Frigate. Same as the Nebulon-B

Star Wars is laughably inconsistent in ship naming terminology, so i wouldn't put much weight in that.

For example:

Guardian-class Light Cruiser is 1/3 the length of a CR90 Corvette

Interceptor Frigate is really a refitted transport, and is smaller than most Corvettes

The Imperial-2 Class Frigate is bigger than several Cruisers

The Gozanti Cruiser is.....dont even get me started on this one.

The Carrack light Cruiser is the size of a Nebulon-B

Just embrace the innate ludicrousness of Star Wars and don't sweat it

Am I correct in thinking that as Defiant is a card effect the die is added during the modify step rather than the gather dice pool step prior to rolling? Therefore can be of any colour ignoring range restrictions?

My thoughts exactly! I was wondering why no one else had pointed this out. Add a black dice, two with concentrate fire, just like the Paragon, only much more reliable, and if Ackbar slashing, can let it out both broadsides! (as long as both targets have activated).

Defiance is definitely a card that would favour a 4 ship build. Could be devastating. Which is great, it was always my favourite ship in the X Wing game.