Thoughts on that cluster bomb upgrade? I can't see myself ever taking it. I don't think it holds a candle to the other defensive retrofits.
Garbage, basically. I guess therre had to be some trash cards eventually!
Point-Defense Reroute (Which is worth 1/4th to 1/2 of a blue die and useless with black anti-squadron dice) didn't already qualify?
Thoughts on that cluster bomb upgrade? I can't see myself ever taking it. I don't think it holds a candle to the other defensive retrofits.
Garbage, basically. I guess therre had to be some trash cards eventually!
Point-Defense Reroute (Which is worth 1/4th to 1/2 of a blue die and useless with black anti-squadron dice) didn't already qualify?
Good point. Well....it's less lonely now!
If PDR made Crits count as Hits for anti squadron purposes it'd be worth it.
............\(I had not thought about that too far until now. Mikael Hasselstein did it to me last tournament which is what started me on that. I was thinking about it on seperate terms. Then I listened to Easy's talk about is 9 Y-Wings tournament victory in which he sent the Y-Wings to hit the same hull zone that his Assault Frigates would hit the same spot.Hmmm new squadron concept popped into my head. . . It's not about how efficient your carrier is. . . It's about how much damage you can put onto a single shield face in a single ship activation. . .
wasn't that always how it was? Sure as hell was when I was using Yavaris
more ships = more activations
more squadrons = bigger activations
you only need efficiency if you're going squadron on squadron, where a ship's batteries are nice support but woefully inefficient by themselves. An ISD-2 flinging bombers at an enemy ship will be awe inspiring, but flinging sh*tty ties at an enemy screen? that's a job a flight controller VSD-1 can handle.
This just hit it home for me
)/.............
F-35?
............\(
I had not thought about that too far until now. Mikael Hasselstein did it to me last tournament which is what started me on that. I was thinking about it on seperate terms. Then I listened to Easy's talk about is 9 Y-Wings tournament victory in which he sent the Y-Wings to hit the same hull zone that his Assault Frigates would hit the same spot.
Hmmm new squadron concept popped into my head. . . It's not about how efficient your carrier is. . . It's about how much damage you can put onto a single shield face in a single ship activation. . .
wasn't that always how it was? Sure as hell was when I was using Yavaris
more ships = more activations
more squadrons = bigger activations
you only need efficiency if you're going squadron on squadron, where a ship's batteries are nice support but woefully inefficient by themselves. An ISD-2 flinging bombers at an enemy ship will be awe inspiring, but flinging sh*tty ties at an enemy screen? that's a job a flight controller VSD-1 can handle.
This just hit it home for me
F-35?
has been a disaster......?
has been a disaster......?............\(I had not thought about that too far until now. Mikael Hasselstein did it to me last tournament which is what started me on that. I was thinking about it on seperate terms. Then I listened to Easy's talk about is 9 Y-Wings tournament victory in which he sent the Y-Wings to hit the same hull zone that his Assault Frigates would hit the same spot.Hmmm new squadron concept popped into my head. . . It's not about how efficient your carrier is. . . It's about how much damage you can put onto a single shield face in a single ship activation. . .
wasn't that always how it was? Sure as hell was when I was using Yavaris
more ships = more activations
more squadrons = bigger activations
you only need efficiency if you're going squadron on squadron, where a ship's batteries are nice support but woefully inefficient by themselves. An ISD-2 flinging bombers at an enemy ship will be awe inspiring, but flinging sh*tty ties at an enemy screen? that's a job a flight controller VSD-1 can handle.
This just hit it home for me
F-35?
I JUST checked on my mobile phone and it says 4 Squadron. What operating system are you using?
Edit: I also checked with my Computer and it also says 4 Squad. I am using Mac products.
OS doesn't have anything to do with it. Follow the link to that picture. It is/was hosted on FFG.com. They posted it this morning and apparently changed it 10 - 20 minutes after posting it. We didn't make that card up and it was what caused the confusion. You can also see (last time I checked) one of the red boxes from the maneuver speed 3 still there as if they had intended for it to go speed 3 then removed it before release but didn't clean up the image.
Hmmmmmm I don't know. . . Tarkin affects all ships as well but you at best get 6 tokens per ship, Akbar gets 6 turns of uses from both arcs per ship. . .Thinking about it more, I actually think Tarkin is better for the points due to his versatility. That's a cross faction comparison of course though, and therefore objectively useless as Rebels can't have Tarkin.
Unless you are fighting a speedy imperial build (if there is such a thing), I dont see 6 turns of use for akbar at all. First and possibly second round is all about positioning, so there is little chance to use only broadsides during these turns. And as long as you are still approaching the slash and not actually alongside between two enemies, trying to dual-arc bow and stb/portside is arguably better than the akbar bonus.
Who plays Tarkin in a speedy build?
If I ran 4 to 5 MC30's (70 points each) I would run Akbar no problem. I would also make my points worth in 3 turns.
Is it just me or is the Home One+Leading shot combo described in the article not even possible? Home one reads "While another friendly ship is attacking" (as opposed to Rhymer's "Friendly squadrons")...
Who plays Tarkin in a speedy build?
If I ran 4 to 5 MC30's (70 points each) I would run Akbar no problem. I would also make my points worth in 3 turns.
Never mentioned Tarkin, not sure where he is coming from now..? I just stated that so far it has been most unlikely to fire broadsides the first 1-2 rounds, so Akbar is not likely to apply all 6 turns, which was your assumption.
Nice to know that your crystal sphere somehow gave you vision on the MC30s already, would recommend using it on topics other than armada for greater reveneus ;-)
My crystal sphere is called trend probability. Sadly the lottery goes beyond even my skills.
It is pretty simple to figure out the costs of the MC30, sadly I have to likely wait 2 weeks to see if I am right. . .
Tarkin was mentioned in what you quoted and was part of the original conversation you quoted.
You are right Akbar is likely used on turns 2 through 6, still that is 38 points for 2 red dice and all my ships where Enhanced Armaments is 10 points for 1 red die and only effects that one ship. So if Enhanced Armaments is great on the Assault Frigate, Akbar should be amazing.
As for assumptions, Fleet Ambush comes to mind which would allow the ambushed ships to broadside with their empowered arcs.
On a side note that makes me sad. . . Akbar is an Add effect. . . That means you don't add him to Fire Lanes. Sad Panda. . .
Edited by LyraeusI dunno Lyraeus, you were 20 points off on the MC80 Assault, so i'd probably wait and see!
There's no doubt that Akbar is great. I do still hold however that he is not as clear cut as he looks on many ships, and a lot of people will use him when they really shouldn't. It's easy to get blinded by the extra dice, and not realise that you are actually doing yourself a disservice by not positioning for 2 arcs. Again, it really just comes down to the ship and playstyle.
My crystal sphere is called trend probability. Sadly the lottery goes beyond even my skills.
It is pretty simple to figure out the costs of the MC30, sadly I have to likely wait 2 weeks to see if I am right. . .
Tarkin was mentioned in what you quoted and was part of the original conversation you quoted.
You are right Akbar is likely used on turns 2 through 6, still that is 38 points for 2 red dice and all my ships where Enhanced Armaments is 10 points for 1 red die and only effects that one ship. So if Enhanced Armaments is great on the Assault Frigate, Akbar should be amazing.
As for assumptions, Fleet Ambush comes to mind which would allow the ambushed ships to broadside with their empowered arcs.
On a side note that makes me sad. . . Akbar is an Add effect. . . That means you don't add him to Fire Lanes. Sad Panda. . .
Well, I remember some discussions how the assault MC80 could never be more than 100 pts and for sure has to be a 2-digit number. Dont get me wrong, I like all the speculative thinking on these forums and all the creative minds trying to foresee the great wave 2, but I like to wait for the official previews before announcing I'll "make my points worth in turn 3", or whatever..
I definitely like Akbar and think he has potential, but lets not go overboard with the hype. Akbar needs a specific (predictable) playstyle and maneouvering to work great, and imperials will adapt to it. You also will have to divert firepower rather than to concentrate two arcs on a single target, meaning you might often hurt everybody and kill none, bracing for return fire. We will see how Akbar plays out and I will definitely include him on some builds, but he is not the auto-include some people make him..
I dunno Lyraeus, you were 20 points off on the MC80 Assault, so i'd probably wait and see!
There's no doubt that Akbar is great. I do still hold however that he is not as clear cut as he looks on many ships, and a lot of people will use him when they really shouldn't. It's easy to get blinded by the extra dice, and not realise that you are actually doing yourself a disservice by not positioning for 2 arcs. Again, it really just comes down to the ship and playstyle.
What do you know about the MC30?
It is speed 4, which was confirmed by the GenCon developer interview.
It has lots of red and blue dice. As DiabloAzul pointed out, red dice are more valuable than blue dice due to range so the Scout Frigate which has the red dice will be more expensive
It has 1 less shield than a ISD and Assault Frigate.
It has access to the weapons team upgrade, as well as the Turbolaser slot for the Scout and Ion upgrade for the Torpedo Frigate where as both come with the Ordinance upgrade unlike the GSD which only has the Ordinance upgrade.
It has 4 defense tokens though 2 of them are duplicate and there is no brace.
It has 1 more die in total worth of battery than the GSD (GSD is 4, 4, 4, 2 where are the MC30 is 3, 5, 5, 2)
It also gets access to a defensive upgrade. Though it seems to only ever have 1 anti-squadron die.
Well, I remember some discussions how the assault MC80 could never be more than 100 pts and for sure has to be a 2-digit number. Dont get me wrong, I like all the speculative thinking on these forums and all the creative minds trying to foresee the great wave 2, but I like to wait for the official previews before announcing I'll "make my points worth in turn 3", or whatever..
I definitely like Akbar and think he has potential, but lets not go overboard with the hype. Akbar needs a specific (predictable) playstyle and maneouvering to work great, and imperials will adapt to it. You also will have to divert firepower rather than to concentrate two arcs on a single target, meaning you might often hurt everybody and kill none, bracing for return fire. We will see how Akbar plays out and I will definitely include him on some builds, but he is not the auto-include some people make him..
Actually, in the specific case of Ackbar and MC80s you *want* to be splitting fire. The front arc of the MC80 is no better than a Corvette, and I'd rather throw 7 red dice at 2 targets than 7+2 at one target. And that is considering I can follow up with other ships on both targets (Neb Bs for instance). You could definitely have the MC80 as a flanker/broadside kiter, but in that case I feel the Command Variant is better than the Assault variant.
I do agree that he is not like Screed where everyone uses him.
There will be plenty of builds that like other commanders, however I think for the big ships Garm and Akbar are great, for the MC30 swarm and Nebulon-B swarm (mix there of), Rieekan (if he can resurrect ships) will be great. Mothma will still be the Corvette Queen, and yea.
Well, I remember some discussions how the assault MC80 could never be more than 100 pts and for sure has to be a 2-digit number. Dont get me wrong, I like all the speculative thinking on these forums and all the creative minds trying to foresee the great wave 2, but I like to wait for the official previews before announcing I'll "make my points worth in turn 3", or whatever..
I definitely like Akbar and think he has potential, but lets not go overboard with the hype. Akbar needs a specific (predictable) playstyle and maneouvering to work great, and imperials will adapt to it. You also will have to divert firepower rather than to concentrate two arcs on a single target, meaning you might often hurt everybody and kill none, bracing for return fire. We will see how Akbar plays out and I will definitely include him on some builds, but he is not the auto-include some people make him..
Actually, in the specific case of Ackbar and MC80s you *want* to be splitting fire. The front arc of the MC80 is no better than a Corvette, and I'd rather throw 7 red dice at 2 targets than 7+2 at one target. And that is considering I can follow up with other ships on both targets (Neb Bs for instance). You could definitely have the MC80 as a flanker/broadside kiter, but in that case I feel the Command Variant is better than the Assault variant.
I agree to a degree.
The Assault Cruiser is amazing because you can have Advanced Projectors and Electronic Countermeasures on it. This means that with Raymus Antilles you will have a ship that can swap 6 shields around a turn and repair 3 a turn and will NEVER lose its brace during 1 attack.
I do agree that he is not like Screed where everyone uses him.
There will be plenty of builds that like other commanders, however I think for the big ships Garm and Akbar are great, for the MC30 swarm and Nebulon-B swarm (mix there of), Rieekan (if he can resurrect ships) will be great. Mothma will still be the Corvette Queen, and yea.
Garm with MC80s and AFMK2s will make things interesting too.
I also have to say, the Neb B with Ackbar can be a very unexpected combo. "Oh, you're trying to flank my Nebulon B ? That's cute, EAT MY FRONT ARC TO THE FACE"
I do agree that he is not like Screed where everyone uses him
There will be plenty of builds that like other commanders, however I think for the big ships Garm and Akbar are great, for the MC30 swarm and Nebulon-B swarm (mix there of), Rieekan (if he can resurrect ships) will be great. Mothma will still be the Corvette Queen, and yea.
Garm with MC80s and AFMK2s will make things interesting too.
I also have to say, the Neb B with Ackbar can be a very unexpected combo. "Oh, you're trying to flank my Nebulon B ? That's cute, EAT MY FRONT ARC TO THE FACE"
It is a janky fun list that I think can work sort of well.
Let's see. . . 3 plus token is 4 plus Redemption and Engineering Team is 5 and 6 points. Yup they can take a beating and then move on. Oh and I don't care how good the 6 Nebulon-B's shooting you with 3 to 4 red dice each WILL hurt.
Speculation is absolutely fine. But it is just that...speculation. Some of it so far has been wildly inaccurate, and i've noticed a tendency among a few people to be very black and white in their thinking, while in reality much is based on assumptions. As soon as these things are fully revealed and/or used, i can almost guarantee much of this will change.
Just something to be mindful of while thinking up tactics and the like. Nothing here is as straightforward as "it's simple to say it'll be x points", or "Ackbar is good/bad", or anything else. Everything has to be considered in conjunction with everything else, assumptions will be incorrect quite often, and physical play never works the same sa theorycraft.
Just some thoughts 
Cogs.
I am looking at things from my play style and perspective. I think this will be fine.
As we use to say in the intelligence community, all we are doing is making really well educated guesses.
I don't know about you all, but when Screed was first spoiled, I saw a lot of predictions he was the worst Admiral behind Motti and Tarkin. On the BGG boards I was a very lonely voice for his use. I liked Screed on his own, but what put him on so many lists was a combo of ACM, GSD, and Demolisher all coming together to be one of the best ships, and Screed did more for that ship than the other two Admirals. Meaning, don't get too definitive on Akbar until we see his entire context.
While I suggested a vette swarm earlier with him, if we have a reasonable MC30 build with even one red die on the side arc, we have our Akbar monster. The MC30s move fast, meaning with 1st player they can do the dreaded slash and get out before return fire in the same way some people run GSDs. But while the GSDs tend to look to mash up the forward travel and get their front and side arc in, the MC30/Akbar attack will insert this small base ship into the formation, fire away with a lot of dice, and boogie out. Corvettes will be used in the list for ship activation control and because they can do the slash themselves if the opportunity exists. Plus they shoot like a whale with Akbar.
Blah Blah Blah... All you Rebel Scum Lovers....
Your Faith in this UGLY Squid smelling weak ship is laughable.. It compares not to the power of the Empire!
Yes Akbar, It is a trap.... So come to the skillet side and join your fellow Rebels in my Belly!
Naboobo2000
I enjoyed the reveal with its tactics ideas, the only problem I have is it shows a matchup with a VSD (and the glad never does anything!) and not an ISD. With a speed 3 ISD, the MC80 is going to be encountering it first?
I really don't see the value in holding back on revealing all the cards either. I suppose there will be another month worth of reveals in October 
