1 hour ago, Nytwyng said:

Different strokes, and all, but I think the idea that I liked about it works best if it's the Hutts - trying to carry their big stick, but spend as little on it as possible.

In reading the (now) Legends books, I felt Anderson was better when working on a standalone book like Darksaber than with a trilogy (like the Jedi Academy Trilogy). Of course, there were better writers than him involved in trilogies and standalones both. But, I didn't mind him terribly.

I think KJA was kind of a mixed bag, but it's really hard to attribute how much of that is due to his direction and how much is due to took many cooks in the kitchen.

That said, a Hutt wanting a superweapon for the purpose of having a superweapon is absolutely moronic. It's like writing a story about a Mafia Don build a nuke to he can hold New York City for ransom. The story doesn't work because the villain doesn't fit. Switch it out for a terrorist organization, or change the mob boss's motive to selling said superweapon to the highest bidder (which is still stupid for the heat it would bring down, but better than the original) and you have a story worth telling.

15 minutes ago, Blackbird888 said:

On the other hand, Legends had several decades to introduce dumb stuff, whereas nucanon has only existed for a a fraction of that. All in good time, as they say.

Absolutely a fair point. However, it still gets me irritated when I see people trying to call anything in canon right now even a smidge as crazy as the crap we saw in Legends.

17 minutes ago, Blackbird888 said:

My biggest distaste with nucanon, though, is how the authors (or whoever is in charge of making the big decisions) have a hard-on for mass, planetary annihilation/murder. A New Hope introduced us to the Death Star, and showed how awful of a thing it is with the destruction of Alderaan. Return of the Jedi reintroduced us to the Death Star, and the audience knew immediately how terrible it was, and how pressing it was to see the thing destroyed. (Rogue One did a pretty good job of showing how terrible it really is.) And then the writers/director of The Force Awakens introduce Starkiller Base, which is many times worse, as if they're trying to one-up the original horribleness of it somehow. Then add on all the genocide they put into the books.

To me, it's less bad or lousy storytelling and more of a bizarre, terrifying fetish on the author(s)'(s) part, which I want nothing to do with, and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. For all their faults, and all of his quirks as a director, at least George Lucas never introduced another superweapon in the Prequels.

To me, it's a mixed bag. On the one hand, two of out the three OT films had a superweapon front and center, and they were far and away better than the prequels. On the other, I don't think they were better because they had superweapons in them, either. My fave is V, the one WITHOUT a superweapon.

To me, TFA was an ode to the original Star Wars, and that required a superweapon. Fine. They needed to win people back after the prequels and they did a good job of bringing the franchise back to it's original campy, pulpy feel. Now they're free to expand the characters and their arcs, and I'm looking forward to it.

2 hours ago, Benjan Meruna said:

And that's just off the top of my head. Meanwhile, the list of silly things I've seen in nu-canon is

• helicopter lightsabers

So far, the wipe has been a MASSIVE positive for Star Wars. The fact that they're bringing back the few gems like Thrawn only enhances this in my eyes.

Let me help you there a little:

• helicopter lightsabers
• the emperor's punishment plan for the empire, destroying the whole thing within a year after his death
• after the destruction of the empire, star killer base with a superstructure big enough to build a thousand eclipse class super star destroyers and about the same firepower as well. (and you thought dark empire was silly)
• speaking of dark empire, supreme leader snoke, most likely the guy from the unknown region which was calling for Palpatine and appeared in visions to dark siders
• while sitting on the source of the darkside. A single "point" in the unknown region, thought and seeked by Palpatine as the origin of the darkside for many, many decades.
• Han and Leia's divorce, fitting to the current american Zeitgeist, but certainly not a fan favorite
• The New Republic self destructing long before starkiller fired it's shot at the senate
• The first order, an organisation so powerful and well founded that its death star went from small moon to large rocky planet and its star destroyers are twice as big and use magic weapons
• kyber weapons are now standard in all first order star destroyers
• Forcing Leia back into the position of underground general by making her hated within the new two major faction in the new republic, centralists who admire the empire and populists who seek for more independence from the republic, revealing that her father was Darth Vader is effectively ending her political career, something she had worked since even before the beginning of ANH for.
• Speaking of the centralists, they were planning to join the first order, reviving the empire something which is basically larger than the old empire. ;-)

I could go on and on, and that's just from aftermath and bloodlines. Those two are already worse than anything KJA ever did to the EU. I never thought someone would top him and especially not that fast.

edit:

Technical is V the one with the executors first appearance, which is a SUPER star destroyer , a single ship which can wipe out whole fleets on its own. Very much a super weapon in itself. It just did nothing in the movie and was not important at all.

20 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

Let me help you there a little:

• helicopter lightsabers
• the emperor's punishment plan for the empire, destroying the whole thing within a year after his death
• after the destruction of the empire, star killer base with a superstructure big enough to build a thousand eclipse class super star destroyers and about the same firepower as well. (and you thought dark empire was silly)
• speaking of dark empire, supreme leader snoke, most likely the guy from the unknown region which was calling for Palpatine and appeared in visions to dark siders
• while sitting on the source of the darkside. A single "point" in the unknown region, thought and seeked by Palpatine as the origin of the darkside for many, many decades.
• Han and Leia's divorce, fitting to the current american Zeitgeist, but certainly not a fan favorite
• The New Republic self destructing long before starkiller fired it's shot at the senate
• The first order, an organisation so powerful and well founded that its death star went from small moon to large rocky planet and its star destroyers are twice as big and use magic weapons
• kyber weapons are now standard in all first order star destroyers
• Forcing Leia back into the position of underground general by making her hated within the new two major faction in the new republic, centralists who admire the empire and populists who seek for more independence from the republic, revealing that her father was Darth Vader is effectively ending her political career, something she had worked since even before the beginning of ANH for.
• Speaking of the centralists, they were planning to join the first order, reviving the empire something which is basically larger than the old empire. ;-)

I could go on and on, and that's just from aftermath and bloodlines. Those two are already worse than anything KJA ever did to the EU. I never thought someone would top him and especially not that fast.

1. Agreed, and was on my original list
2. Wholly in line with Palp's personality.
3. Carving into a planet actually makes a whole lot more sense than building a moon from scrap. Starkiller is a budget Death Star, so cheap they had to carve it out of rock. Compared to Dark Empire, which has the World Devastators. Yeah, Dark Empire is silly.
4. ...and? Are you suddenly shocked that Force Users can appear to each other in visions for some reason now? How is that silly?
5. You're gonna have to elaborate here, I can't recall anything suggesting a "source" for the dark side, and the Wook has literally nothing on Snoke's page about it.
6. It's not a fairy tale ending, but then that's sort of the point. Losing a son is rough on a marriage, losing a son like that ? Yeah, it's sad, but not surprising in the least.
7. It didn't self-destruct, it got bogged down in trivialities, red tape, and some corruption. You know, like the o ld Republic . That's the downside of democracy, for ya.
8. Again, it went from building a small moon from scratch (in a cave! FROM A BOX OF-sorry) to hollowing out some bits of a planet. The First Order also has far, far fewer Star Destroyers. They make them that big because they have eff-all for support these days.
9. Again, it's easy to bling out your Star Destroyers when you have like, five. Also:

   Quote

   Upgraded from Imperial-era turbolasers, the Resurgent -class delivered more firepower and had a faster recharge rate. Stemming from kyber focusing crystals harvested from a secret source deep in the Unknown Regions , other captains clamored for upgrades for their warships, only to be denied as military-grade crystals were in short supply. Only the most prestigious and important vessels were allowed this advanced weaponry, along with the Order's highest ranks. ^[1]

10. You don't think people would feel a LITTLE betrayed, finding out Leia was the daughter of the biggest war criminal in the Empire and kept it secret from everyone? It also made the good point that people would be tired of war by then, and her pushing to go after the First Order would have been looked an awful lot like her struggling to keep political relevance.
11. Wow, it's almost like the large population of people who were pretty supportive of the Empire would continue to be supportive of the Empire.

I feel bad and want to try to help, though, so I'll expand the list a bit for you:

• helicopter lightsabers
• Any herky jerky prose by Wendig

Let me state this again, the superstructure on the the starkiller is big enough to build over a thousand eclipse class star destroyers. That is literally more resources than the whole imperial fleet of palpatine.

Let me help you with something else: Size does matter. Scaling up from 160km diameter for over 12000km means an increase of energy and complexity needed for the hyperdrive of 0.42 * 10 ⁶ . That is with a density assume of the deathstar, which a planet should have even more density, basically at this point the super laser is the least amazing feature and the hyperdrive is the real marvel and the energy requirements reach a level when just firing micro-singularities through hyperspace at your targets becomes more realistic, effective and convenient.

It really is ludicrous beyond anything the death star portrait. Increasing the scale of the weapon by 5 and a half magnitudes. If the death star was like the tzar bomb than starkiller is the yucatan impact. The improvement on the super-laser itself is marginal in context compared to the energy requirements of its hyperdrive. Ironically a part of the construction which used not be powered by magic. ;-)

Edit: btw, Windig and Claudia Gray, which is basically all we have right now from the new canon EU non-comic eu? The stuff that forms the whole base for the new canon, the stuff which is what the story-group wants.

9 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

Let me state this again, the superstructure on the the starkiller is big enough to build over a thousand eclipse class star destroyers. That is literally more resources than the whole imperial fleet of palpatine.

Do you have a source on this? Because all I see if them vaporizing a bunch of rock and putting a reactor inside the planet. It takes far more resources to build something than to hollow something out and put in a skeleton. It was a bigger superlaser because they didn't have to spend all the time and money building a superstructure around it, they just used the planet. Working smarter, not harder, as they say.

13 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

Let me help you with something else: Size does matter. Scaling up from 160km diameter for over 12000km means an increase of energy and complexity needed for the hyperdrive of 0.42 * 10 ⁶ . That is with a density assume of the deathstar, which a planet should have even more density, basically at this point the super laser is the least amazing feature and the hyperdrive is the real marvel and the energy requirements reach a level when just firing micro-singularities through hyperspace at your targets becomes more realistic, effective and convenient.

Are you actually applying math and science to Star Wars ? Oh dear. Remember that we're already dealing with a universe where spaceships fly like WW2 planes. There's nothing wrong with a "bigger" Death Star because the principle is exactly the same.

15 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

really is ludicrous beyond anything the death star portrait. Increasing the scale of the weapon by 5 and a half magnitudes.

This is a franchise where the Empire's philosophy towards everything is to make it bigger. Acclamators? Psh, we can go bigger. Imperial Star Destroyer? Hmm, let's go even bigger. Executor? Nah, let's build a space station the size of a moon. Oh ****, they blew it up build another one but bigger! They blew that up too?! Hollow out a planet, because we're going even bigger.

Star war is not the franchise to be a fan of if your suspension is disbelief is strained by physics and not, say, wooden dialogue delivered badly.

19 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

Edit: btw, Windig and Claudia Gray, which is basically all we have right now from the new canon EU non-comic eu? The stuff that forms the whole base for the new canon, the stuff which is what the story-group wants.

Claudia Grey's Bloodline was fine. Filoni's stuff is good, heli-sabers aside. Miller is decent, James Luceno did a good job with Tarkin , Paul Kemp ( Lords of the Sith ) is great, Kevin Hearne is good so far, Christe Golden surprised me with Dark Disciple (her Warcraft stuff was crap, so maybe my bar wasn't very high)...

But yeah, Wendig is totally the only novel author out there. Uh huh.

Also, I can see why you're skipping out on the comics, seeing as they're pretty much universally loved that I've seen. Vader, Star Wars, Chewbacca, and Lando are all great. I suppose I've only heard middling reviews about Leia's, though.

1 minute ago, Benjan Meruna said:

Do you have a source on this? Because all I see if them vaporizing a bunch of rock and putting a reactor inside the planet. It takes far more resources to build something than to hollow something out and put in a skeleton. It was a bigger superlaser because they didn't have to spend all the time and money building a superstructure around it, they just used the planet. Working smarter, not harder, as they say.

I have. It still a planet afterall and those superstructures are thousands of kilometers long and a few thousand wide. As as mentioned, the thing has a working hyperdrive.

Now if this does not bother you, but the darksaber and dala, etc does not, than I am not bothering with trying to convince you otherwise. Afterall, I just stop reading star wars when they introduced the darksaber, Dala, the Sun Crusher and Kype hitler duron, etc … no point in following into that rabbit hole

5 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

I have. It still a planet afterall and those superstructures are thousands of kilometers long and a few thousand wide. As as mentioned, the thing has a working hyperdrive.

Now if this does not bother you, but the darksaber and dala, etc does not, than I am not bothering with trying to convince you otherwise. Afterall, I just stop reading star wars when they introduced the darksaber, Dala, the Sun Crusher and Kype hitler duron, etc … no point in following into that rabbit hole

So, 20 years ago?

(The Jedi Academy Trilogy was published in 1994, and Darksaber in 1995.)

Well, first off, I imagine it's a lot easier to deal with the crapfest that was most of Legends if you ignore most of Legends. That being said, I'd rather have a higher standard of content.

Second, all I see is a really big gun in a planet. All told there's probably less metal and engineering spent into that thing that there was in the first Death Star. You're also not understanding my qualms with the Darksaber : it doesn't bother me because it is or is not physical impossibility (because it's Star Wars and if you're worry about that you're in the wrong genre) but because it made no sense to be in the hands of the Hutts. It would have fit perfectly in one of the extremist Imperial factions, and likely would not have made the list had that been the case.

Space Fantasy is not a genre about adhering to physical possibilities.

1 hour ago, Nytwyng said:

So, 20 years ago?

(The Jedi Academy Trilogy was published in 1994, and Darksaber in 1995.)

Jup. Though I think I read darksaber in about 1998 or so. Slow release cycles in germany, and no interest anymore to chase down early releases.
But as I said, I acknowledge the crap fest of the 'late' legend's fully.

My perspective on the new EU is that they start right there were the old EU left oft. Instead of first handing out solid Stackpole mass ware and some odd, but interesting stuff.

For the super structure, you see a metal structure in the giant equatorial trench. We see a few shots up close as well, and get a an estimate of at least 20,000km, most likely the whole 40,000km length for those structures.

And BTW, Dala, the most incompetent imperial commander of all time with her Suncrusher and Deathstar/Darksaber made it onto the list, so I doubt that an imperial darksaber would have missed it well deserved spot. And having a death star makes actually sense for the Hutt. They had free reign for 50 years, but that might change with the rise of the new republic, so grabbing a weapon like this seems like a useful thing to have for the hutts. The hutts are not some New Yorker mobsters who are happy with their local government, they are the local government. The book is still terrible, the motivations of the characters all over the place, etc … and I think it was literally the last star wars book I read.

Lastly, space fantasy is not an excuse for being inconsistent in the world building. Plausibility does not need to account for real world science indeed, but it needs to plausible in-universe or it usually will break the suspension of disbelief with the audience. Darksaber does this for you on sociological level, Dala does this on amount of stupidity a single person can reach for us both, forgotten and forgiven space hitler does it both for us too, etc

Your belief suspensors seem to more more robust when someone is adjusted the power level by a million times, mine burn out there and that's it. For me the Vong and Silentium are less of a problem as a concept than starkiller base. Real world basic science knowledge makes it just worse, like basic knowledge about economy of size in engineering and how it gets harder and harder to build larger and larger. No big deal either way.

15 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

Jup. Though I think I read darksaber in about 1998 or so. Slow release cycles in germany, and no interest anymore to chase down early releases.
But as I said, I acknowledge the crap fest of the 'late' legend's fully.

What qualifies as "late Legends"? Jedi Prince was out in 1993 or so. That's barely 10 years into the ~30 year span Legends covers.

19 minutes ago, Benjan Meruna said:

What qualifies as "late Legends"? Jedi Prince was out in 1993 or so. That's barely 10 years into the ~30 year span Legends covers.

Hehe, I acknowledge crap in the early legends too. Though the EU started in 1978 or so with that iirc surprisingly terrible "Splinter of the Mind's Eye". With late EU I meant it more like dead EU, which for me was when KJA was allowed to write on regular base for the EU. Others will have different timings I am sure, there are after all even NJO fans

Just now, SEApocalypse said:

Hehe, I ackledgle crap in the early legends too.

There's a lot of crap to go around, sadly. That's why I'm not sad to see it go.

1 minute ago, Benjan Meruna said:

There's a lot of crap to go around, sadly. That's why I'm not sad to see it go.

I am not one bit said about it either. Especially as it is not gone, but just became a different canon. I am a little sad that the new line is not much to my liking. At least the overall picture of aftermath. The comics sound mostly cool, and Rebels is the second best thing after TCW and CW. I am not even sad about CW not being canon anymore as they retold those parts in TCW in a different way again, so it matters little which version is the main canon.

So outside of some details we are mostly in agreement. The fine details at other hands, no point in arguing about them, exchange of opinions is good, arguing about them usually pointless.

Speaking of pointless arguing. Totally Off-topic, but I had recently the change to test my pilot against 24 TIEs. I got them all in 3 turns with my astromech, an stock X-Wing as leader of a minion squadron. The TIEs got not a single shot, which was mostly thanks to the GM being lazy and using minion groups in squadron size. Though even in 6 groups they still would have only gotten one shot from a single TIE at best.

If the First Order actually wants to be effective, they should really learn from their and the Empire's mistakes. Stop building superweapons. Build really good ships but like a million of them instead for the same amount of time & money. The reason why the Empire used TIE Fighters is because they were strength in numbers and it usually was a pretty effective tactic. Building one giant weapon and sitting the majority of your forces on it is not just impractical, after 30 years of them being blown up, it's the definition of insanity . It's so stupid. It was also Palpatine's vision to make that superweapon happen. He's dead. Stop using bad strategies. Strength in numbers. The Rebels/Resistance only ever have 2 or 3 really good pilots, the rest are meat shields. There's no way their forces can split up and take on a massive fleet of star destroyers.

With that said...

Inb4 Episode IX has Starkiller System, a solar system capable of destroying entire galaxies...

37 minutes ago, GroggyGolem said:

With that said...

Inb4 Episode IX has Starkiller System, a solar system capable of destroying entire galaxies...

Starkiller Pong. A giant laser cannon and two planets with giant lightsabers that bat the laser back and forth, destroying multiple star systems per use.

17 minutes ago, Blackbird888 said:

Starkiller Pong. A giant laser cannon and two planets with giant lightsabers that bat the laser back and forth, destroying multiple star systems per use.

It's like I'm really back in the 70's!

9 hours ago, GroggyGolem said:

If the First Order actually wants to be effective, they should really learn from their and the Empire's mistakes. Stop building superweapons. Build really good ships but like a million of them instead for the same amount of time & money. The reason why the Empire used TIE Fighters is because they were strength in numbers and it usually was a pretty effective tactic. Building one giant weapon and sitting the majority of your forces on it is not just impractical, after 30 years of them being blown up, it's the definition of insanity . It's so stupid. It was also Palpatine's vision to make that superweapon happen. He's dead. Stop using bad strategies. Strength in numbers. The Rebels/Resistance only ever have 2 or 3 really good pilots, the rest are meat shields. There's no way their forces can split up and take on a massive fleet of star destroyers.

What's interesting is that in the Darth Vader comics, General Tagge (who survived the Death Star explosion in the new canon timeline) proposed exactly that, spending resources on more Star Destroyers and similar capital ships supported by TIEs to exploit the numerical and resource advantage the Empire had over the Rebel Alliance. And for a while at least, he had enough pull to get Imperial resources focused on doing just that. Sadly, Palps was in full Evil Overlord mode and sneered at the list, so he ultimately went back to the well for Death Star 2: Electric Boogaloo.

And while Starkiller Base was blown up, it did serve it's primary purpose of putting the New Republic on a defensive footing, given the Senate got all kinds of blowed up and along with it the a sizeable chunk of the New Republic fleet. Had Han and crew not planted explosives inside the regulator, thus blowing open a hole big enough for Poe to fly through, the Resistance assault force would have failed in its mission, as the regulator was heavily armored and the FO brass didn't hesitate to scramble their fighters to intercept the Resistance's X-Wings.

So it's not like the First Order completely failed to learn anything, as they took sensible precautions to protect their big super-weapon. It's just there's no real accounting for the sort of luck that a plucky band of rag-tag misfits have in abundance.

That being said, I'm hoping that at this point Snoke does indeed wise up and decides that planet-killers are a waste of time and resources and that we don't see any more of them in the rest of the new trilogy. He doesn't seem to be quite as ego-driven as Palps, and has some sense of knowing when to fold 'em, but he is sitting in the Evil Overlord chair, so remains to be seen how much of the list he's read and is willing to acknowledge.

Helicopter lightsabers (rotor-sabers?). I know there was a thread dedicated to this subject, which I didn't feel the need to necro as their mentioned here. But did anybody like this idea (other than Filoni, Plunkett and co.)? One of the most bat-**** crazy ideas I have seen or heard about, I realize that Star Wars is just space-fantasy and there are no real explanation how things actually work, but plasma/light based rotor-blades?... Just... huh? Not academic enough in the sciences to know, but could this actually generate any kind of down force? I get the point others have made that it could be a combination of Move/Enhancement with the spinning sabers...

But still, not a fan and do my best to ignore these when they appear in Rebels. I haven't seen any of season 3, but I hope that the creation team realized these were a bad idea and have conveniently 'forgotten' about them for future inquisitors...

57 minutes ago, MDR101 said:

Helicopter lightsabers (rotor-sabers?). I know there was a thread dedicated to this subject, which I didn't feel the need to necro as their mentioned here. But did anybody like this idea (other than Filoni, Plunkett and co.)? One of the most bat-**** crazy ideas I have seen or heard about, I realize that Star Wars is just space-fantasy and there are no real explanation how things actually work, but plasma/light based rotor-blades?... Just... huh? Not academic enough in the sciences to know, but could this actually generate any kind of down force? I get the point others have made that it could be a combination of Move/Enhancement with the spinning sabers...

But still, not a fan and do my best to ignore these when they appear in Rebels. I haven't seen any of season 3, but I hope that the creation team realized these were a bad idea and have conveniently 'forgotten' about them for future inquisitors...

To paraphrase Dave Filoni's thoughts on the matter, they could only pull off that feat because they were on Malachor, such a powerful dark side vergence.

My guess is they were basically making themselves float with telekinesis and just spinning the blades to propel themselves horizontally.

13 minutes ago, GroggyGolem said:

To paraphrase Dave Filoni's thoughts on the matter, they could only pull off that feat because they were on Malachor, such a powerful dark side vergence.

My guess is they were basically making themselves float with telekinesis and just spinning the blades to propel themselves horizontally.

While that's still stupid in my opinion, I'm glad it was a one-time deal.

17 minutes ago, GroggyGolem said:

To paraphrase Dave Filoni's thoughts on the matter, they could only pull off that feat because they were on Malachor, such a powerful dark side vergence.

My guess is they were basically making themselves float with telekinesis and just spinning the blades to propel themselves horizontally.

Which then raises the question: if that ability was due solely to the properties of Malachor, and they'd never been there before...why would they have even thought to do it?

Just now, Nytwyng said:

Which then raises the question: if that ability was due solely to the properties of Malachor, and they'd never been there before...why would they have even thought to do it?

Kinda like "How did Rey think of Mind Tricking the Stormtrooper when she probably hadn't ever heard of that ability let alone didn't know how to affect a mind until Kylo Ren started probing hers?"

My guess is they did it by instict, much like everything Rey does in TFA.

22 hours ago, Benjan Meruna said:

Speaking of, add

• Kyp "Easily Forgiven Hitler" Durron
• Suncrusher and every other silly Superweapon of the Week

to the list.

And coming in as the Number One Thing I'm Glad NeoCanon Eliminated:

• Old Man Tarkin porking Daala (or really Peter Cushing porking anyone)

19 minutes ago, GroggyGolem said:

Kinda like "How did Rey think of Mind Tricking the Stormtrooper when she probably hadn't ever heard of that ability let alone didn't know how to affect a mind until Kylo Ren started probing hers?"

My guess is they did it by instict, much like everything Rey does in TFA.

I can give Rey a little more of a handwave since she'd not only seen but felt what it was like to have a Force user shove his way inside her head.

But did they haze the Inquisitors by saying, "Hey...just for giggles, every once in a while, try using your spinning sabers to fly," and it just happened to work on Malachor?

2 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

I can give Rey a little more of a handwave since she'd not only seen but felt what it was like to have a Force user shove his way inside her head.

But did they haze the Inquisitors by saying, "Hey...just for giggles, every once in a while, try using your spinning sabers to fly," and it just happened to work on Malachor?

I think the idea is that they felt the Force was strong enough to use Move to...well, move around. It's sort of like being in low gravity and realizing you can jump a lot farther than you normally can.

No idea why they needed to spin the sabers, though.