I believe FFG selected the Mandalorian symbol as it is the most recognized of the scum faction symbols.

I'm sure that's right. But it doesn't make it any less shortsighted.

I believe FFG selected the Mandalorian symbol as it is the most recognized of the scum faction symbols.

I'm sure that's right. But it doesn't make it any less shortsighted.

I think that the Mandalorian symbol was used as the scum/mercenary/crime symbol before Mandalorians officially existed in the stories because it's the symbol on Boba's shoulder.

But I, for one, don't think that separating pilots is a good idea at all. There are too many possibilities for unforeseen, broken combos. I would be perfectly fine with new cards featuring old pilots in new ships: Luke in an E-wing, Steele in a Defender, etc.

And of course, there's all the X-Wing video games, which were still more or less canon to the EU.

In pretty much all of them, dodging torpedoes was really easy for an even moderately maneuverable starfighter.

This is true, but it definitely required dodging. Simply flying straight and level while someone had a missile lock on you was just a form of suicide.

Personally, I think all ordnance should auto-hit in X Wing. UNLESS the opponent elects to evade, in which case they can roll their green dice like normal, but also gain a stress token. Or something like that anyway.

Of course, that would also require a ground-up re-write of the ordnance rules, but I never said it would be easy!

You know... sometimes I think I liked this game more before it became the raging success that it has. Honestly, some of you seem to be impossible to make happy.

"This is wrong, because I don't remember it in any of the three dozen novels I read."

"This is broken, because it works too well against how I like to play."

"This is stupid, because I haven't figured out how to use quite effectively for my play style."

"This is a poor game design, because they didn't think of this four years ago when they first designed the game. Dummies."

Eesh.

Impossible to please is THE Star Wars fan base.

Until the other way is tried, there is no saying which way would be better.

You say this and then dismiss the example of the other way not working because it didn't work. How is that fair?

One of the biggest lessons to learn from Attack Wing is that more moving pieces add more balance concerns, especially when those moving pieces have to be applied universally as in the case of a pilot card. The beauty of X-Wing's system is that it allows different pilot abilities to be priced appropriately to their ship [whether or not this is applied successfully is a different discussion]. Building from the ground up we don't have to worry about things like Wedge on a B-Wing or Biggs on a Falcon, but the potential for each abuse is there. Every pilot in this system has to be balanced against every existing ship and every future ship.

Limiting pilots to certain ships solves this problem to some degree, but it also creates its own problems: "Why can't I fly Wedge on the new E-Wing? Just because the E-Wing wasn't invented when he came out?" It also significantly reduces the power that we can give to pilot abilities, even with these caveats.

This is different than missiles/torpedoes/tech/systems because those upgrades do not need to be available to every ship in the same way that a pilot clearly needs to be. Tech and systems may appear similar, but making them different allows FFG to create ships that have one or the other, both, or neither. Pilots, thematically at least, wouldn't have these various options.

Aside from these potential drawbacks, however, I also don't see any purely mechanical advantage to making pilot cards an upgrade. It makes sense from the lore, but what mechanical benefit is there from mixing and matching pilots? It potentially opens up more options to use, but how many more really? If new Wedge is available to the X,Y, and E-Wing, players will quickly find where he fits best and nothing will change from the current model until a more powerful option emerges. Bad choices don't serve an important mechanical role.

So to me the benefit--more thematic options--doesn't outweigh the balance concerns that have been demonstrated by Attack Wing.

I understand that Attack Wing is a good a example of that systems cons, however, there is more than one way to skin a cat. It's quite possible to design the game around that system, but in a way with less balance issues. Better point-to-worth accuracy for starters.

With all there is now for examples from both this game, and Attack Wing, I find it hard to believe that a game with detached pilot cards couldn't be made to work in a fairly comparably balanced way. The game would require redesigning from the ground up.

You don't like this particular discussion, your more than welcome to hit that Exit button on your keyboard.

My keyboard doesn't have an Exit button.

Return, Back, Close, whatever. Cheaky buggar

I believe FFG selected the Mandalorian symbol as it is the most recognized of the scum faction symbols.

I'm sure that's right. But it doesn't make it any less shortsighted.

I wonder what it could have been like if FFG had scaled back on the amount of Rebel and Imperial ships, and started releasing other factions earlier. Could have had Rebel, Imperial, Pirates & Mercenaries, Blacksun, Hutts, Bounty Hunters, Smugglers, etc., etc. There just would have been half as many options in ships available to each faction. Then, to expand squad options, each faction could have had two allied factions each that you could spend, lets say up to a third, of your squad points on.

I guess that kind of a design would require a lot of foresight, and would have to have it's future releases designed and tested well ahead of time to keep a measure of decent balance. Would require a lot of playtesting. But it would be pretty cool, I think.

And then you wind up with the Vader/Picard situation, where there is only one pilot worth it. Ever.

Wouldn't have been a problem if Picard had a higher cost to use. Or others, less cost.

See? Lesson learnt.

I wonder what it could have been like if FFG had scaled back on the amount of Rebel and Imperial ships, and started releasing other factions earlier. Could have had Rebel, Imperial, Pirates & Mercenaries, Blacksun, Hutts, Bounty Hunters, Smugglers, etc., etc. There just would have been half as many options in ships available to each faction. Then, to expand squad options, each faction could have had two allied factions each that you could spend, lets say up to a third, of your squad points on.

Well, personally, I like FFGs decision to stick to 3 Primary Factions.

Having the different Scum subfactions like Black Sun, Hutt Cartel, Mandalorians, etc. is just a matter of different symbols on the cards for lore purposes.

Unless they actually start adding abilities and upgrades that are subfaction dependent. We don't have any Resistance only. or New Order only. upgrades yet. But I suppose we could.

And then you wind up with the Vader/Picard situation, where there is only one pilot worth it. Ever.

Wouldn't have been a problem if Picard had a higher cost to use. Or others, less cost.

See? Lesson learnt.

And then you wind up with the Vader/Picard situation, where there is only one pilot worth it. Ever.

Wouldn't have been a problem if Picard had a higher cost to use. Or others, less cost.

See? Lesson learnt.

Good balance with that many powerful moving parts is very, very tricky, especially since how good a pilot's ability is depends on the ship (Soontir in an Interceptor? Awesome. Soontir in a T-65? Not so much). Playing it a bit safe is not necessarily bad design. Also, even if we use the OP's comprise system (Pilots can only pilot a limited number of ships), nobody's provided a good way to ensure backwards and forwards compatibility as waves go on.

Yes, forward compatibility is the biggest issue. Some planning ahead would eliminate that problem.

It is not that a pilot would be able to use many different ships: this is just for some pilots. Last resource? Release new versions of the same pilots (with different abilities?) for the new ships. I know, it is basically what we have now, but people forget the other advantages of the system: ship abilities (instead of those artificial title cards).