The game will ebb and flow, it is cool. What is not so cool is that some people here go crazy and get hateful... that is just...****.

That's why the FSM gave us Joe Boss to show us the error of our ways.

Ramen!

Love hates hate just as hate hates love... make sense?

I am here to help, and be silly when I am in a better than normal mode which is normally great. I know some of you guys like me bunches, and you like my little pictures of STAR WARS SHIPS ON THE STAR WARS FORUM.

Plus I use caps lock when needed.

I am a fun guy... and you know it too.

I like you guys plenty, but I would like more of you if you played the game and had fun, rather than fuss and fight over a little bit of paper work. **** that Meta-yarble!

Always with Mushrooms and extra meat... always!

Yesterday I lost two games pretty terribly to quad TLT Y-Wings, but I didn't feel "cheated" or anything. It was pretty clear that I lost because of my mistakes (Deathrain stranded in an asteroid field and met his demise pretty quickly, Echo couldn't decloak the way I planned for and landed on a debris cloud) and even then I still put up a good fight, taking one Y-Wing with me and almost killing a second one.

Of course 2 games don't say much, so it might be entirely possible for TLTs to be broken, but I don't think so. You can add little things (Sensor Jammers!) to existing lists to give them a better shot and they also help versus the harder counters. After a while of TLT hype we might be heading into a very healthy meta with Fat ships, generic 4-5 ships, swarms and aces (and of course mixtures) all being relatively equally representated.

I agree that TLT is annoying and OP and dumb Turretwing, but it's much better than Fat Turretwing **** where everyone plays Dash/Corran or Soontir/Whisper+Decimator incessantly.

1.) It makes Y-Wings and HWK's - generic HWK's - top tier.

2.) It buffs weird, previously bad or 'meh' cards like Sensor Jammer and Flight Instructor and Recon Specialist.

3.) It rewards low-mid PS bidding. No longer are the 14 points you spent flying 7 Black Squadrons instead of Academy Pilots a complete waste of points due to all of your opponents flying PS 7+ no skill turrets. A return to nuance, would you look at that.

4.) When you dump damage into a 4-5 ship list, firepower decreases as the game progresses. Not, "Hey, my Corran has 3 damage let me regen one of these and then double tap to kill yet another one of your ships while my list is still at full strength halfway through the game."

5.) Flying them and flying against them is still a bit on the Turretwing, 'yawn' side. However, there is still some nuance to it. You fly close together and focus firing is easier but your opponent can easily get in the croissants of multiple ships simultaneously. You spread them out and you can cover every other ships' croissants but then ones on the edges can be isolated and picked off, only receiving fire from 1-3 other TLT boats.

6.) No more hypermobility. If they're Y-Wings they're doing 2 hard or 3 banks, HWK's are even clunkier. None of this Super Dash stuff where he boosts and barrel rolls and no matter what your maneuver is it's impossible to get him in arc. Since they're slow, ordnance boats(!) are effective. A meta where quad Bomber lists have a chance!

Rebel answer: Bwing are pretty solid.

Imperial answer: Advanceds and Defenders gonna love tlt. I feel this is really strong answer to hipothetical tlt meta.

But Defenders are still Defenders, sadly. You can get three PS 3s with TIE mk2, but green dice are fickle and you have the option of trading one green for 4 extra hitpoints on all of your ships. Come to think of it, triple Bounty Hunters might be a thing again. Or maybe some kind of list that uses the pretty efficient BH with RecSpec.

5.) Flying them and flying against them is still a bit on the Turretwing, 'yawn' side. However, there is still some nuance to it. You fly close together and focus firing is easier but your opponent can easily get in the croissants of multiple ships simultaneously. You spread them out and you can cover every other ships' croissants but then ones on the edges can be isolated and picked off, only receiving fire from 1-3 other TLT boats.

The "doughnut hole" is the bit of the doughnut where there's nothing going on. Therefore, the bit of a TLT Y-Wing where you're safe is the "nega-croissant".

YOU ARE WELCOME.

How many times did you see a Y-wing on a table till just before the TLT?

How many times people in here have cried that Y-wings were useless (with a small exception fro the scum Y-wings)?

Now that we FINALLY have a reason to take them out of the box and use them as REBEL ships, we want to break them again to force them back to gaming oblivion????

You are still dealing with a 1 evade dice ship, just focus fire on one them making sure you are not getting fired upon by all 4 of them.

How hard can that be???

It seems to me that most people that play this game only like to joust.

Wait TLT is getting nerfed? If yes i would really like to know where you got that from and how they want to nerf them.

I would also not understand that at all because even if TLT was that strong that it needed a nerf (which i dont think) FFG would probably need a lot more time, testing and tournament results to identify it as a broken good upgrade. I mean look at how long it took them to finally nerf the Phantom which was clearly broken good.

Rebel answer: Bwing are pretty solid.

Imperial answer: Advanceds and Defenders gonna love tlt. I feel this is really strong answer to hipothetical tlt meta.

I don't know. Advanceds get chewed up unless they are Vader with Focus Evade.

Not saying the TLT is ultra strong or so but the Advanced doesnt really seemlike a counter to me. The Defender and Autoceptors a bit more

It hasn't even been around long enough for ffg to collect data I highly doubt it's getting nerfed anytime soon.

They are annoying when spammed but there are counters and when they turn up tlt spam will calm down.

But really more turrets was not what the game needed.

The game will ebb and flow, it is cool. What is not so cool is that some people here go crazy and get hateful... that is just...****.

That's why the FSM gave us Joe Boss to show us the error of our ways.

Ramen!

All hail the mighty FSM

May the pasta be with you all

I came in 6th out of 52 with quad TLT Ys at a local tourney last weekend.

What theydont like to see (based on my experience so far):

- Brobots (Hard but not impossible, have to get them in arc)

- 4 Tempests +Dark Curse: Tough overall matchup. Good combination of green dice +HP +mobility.

- Any list with Soontir+At+Stealth. Self explanatory

- Cloaked Phantoms with Sensor Jammer. The guy i played had Echo with Rec Spec +SJ. I managed to drop him because he bumped the Phantom once, leaving it uncloaked with no shot. Otherwise i would've probably lost the game.

-Lone Wolf Dash with Stealth Device and Rec Spec. Very hard to hit, but only scary if flown by a skilled player who manages to get exactly one Y in range while avoiding fire from the other 3.

To be honest i dont think i'll be taking this to a tournament again because its not very exciting or challenging to play (for me), but TLT will definitely be a thing in the wave 7 meta. Everything else not listed above was a good matchup so far. Ships with 1-2 agility or 3 agi and low hp (tie fighters) just melt against 4TLT.

- Brobots (Hard but not impossible, have to get them in arc)

How do you mean?

- Brobots (Hard but not impossible, have to get them in arc)

How do you mean?

You have to fly the 4Y so you get the IG you're shooting in your firing arc AND in range 2, so he doesnt get auto thrusters. if you dont they will evade a lot of your attacks. Easier said than done, but R1 is fine too because 3 dice primary will get some hits through aswell. The real trouble begins once they're behind you.

- Brobots (Hard but not impossible, have to get them in arc)

How do you mean?

You have to fly the 4Y so you get the IG you're shooting in your firing arc AND in range 2, so he doesnt get auto thrusters. if you dont they will evade a lot of your attacks. Easier said than done, but R1 is fine too because 3 dice primary will get some hits through aswell. The real trouble begins once they're behind you.

Right - of course.

Seems like Brobots are generally a bad match up for TLT lists. I've flown the 4 scum TLT Y-wing list 3 times now. Against a double K-Wing list. Against Bounty Hunter (x2) and Echo. And against Zx2, Kihraxz x2, Firespray.

Against 1 or 0 agility, it's obviously very good. Against the 2 agility I was worried, but it becomes a war of attrition and since I've got more ships and more HP its in my favour - although it's important to try and preserve each ships and kind of 'rotate' them

Anti-PWT, fine, but seeing a double-focused Whisper be "plinked" to death in one round makes sad panda sad'der.

Throw enough dice at something and they will stick and TLTs eliminate a large part of the manoeuvring aspect of this game - imho, particularly when the Y's are carrying those delightfully insane Aggromechs..

Anti-PWT indeed

If you could stomache those, you should have no problem with TLTs. The idea that they eliminate a large part of manuevering in the game is complete bogus because they have minimum ranges, low pilot skills, and very limited maneuverability with no re-position action on a whim. You can dodge tlts, unlike PWTs where it is literally impossible if you want to shoot them.

What you can't do is cloak up and trust green dice (ever).

You can dodge tlts

Easily, for one round.

What you can't do is cloak up and trust green dice (ever).

Too true.

The game will ebb and flow, it is cool. What is not so cool is that some people here go crazy and get hateful... that is just...****.

That's why the FSM gave us Joe Boss to show us the error of our ways.

Ramen!

Love hates hate just as hate hates love... make sense?

I am here to help, and be silly when I am in a better than normal mode which is normally great. I know some of you guys like me bunches, and you like my little pictures of STAR WARS SHIPS ON THE STAR WARS FORUM.

Plus I use caps lock when needed.

I am a fun guy... and you know it too.

I like you guys plenty, but I would like more of you if you played the game and had fun, rather than fuss and fight over a little bit of paper work. **** that Meta-yarble!

I saw this and though of you.

Forum. Really. Needs. Dislike. Button.

Anti-PWT, fine, but seeing a double-focused Whisper be "plinked" to death in one round makes sad panda sad'der.

Throw enough dice at something and they will stick and TLTs eliminate a large part of the manoeuvring aspect of this game - imho, particularly when the Y's are carrying those delightfully insane Aggromechs..

Anti-PWT indeed

If you could stomache those, you should have no problem with TLTs. The idea that they eliminate a large part of manuevering in the game is complete bogus because they have minimum ranges, low pilot skills, and very limited maneuverability with no re-position action on a whim. You can dodge tlts, unlike PWTs where it is literally impossible if you want to shoot them.

What you can't do is cloak up and trust green dice (ever).

It's not as easy as it seems to counter TLTs. But it's definitely very doable and Autothruster lists can be pretty hard to hit for them

They should have made it use a focus to shoot. If you had to pay a focus, it would be more balanced, IMO. Just like the blaster turret.

That way if you could bump them and take away there actions, it would be a good strategy.

They should have made it use a focus to shoot. If you had to pay a focus, it would be more balanced, IMO. Just like the blaster turret.

That way if you could bump them and take away there actions, it would be a good strategy.

If you are in the position to bump them you won't be shot anyways. Give it some time, you will adapt.

They should have made it use a focus to shoot. If you had to pay a focus, it would be more balanced, IMO. Just like the blaster turret.

That way if you could bump them and take away there actions, it would be a good strategy.

If you are in the position to bump them you won't be shot anyways. Give it some time, you will adapt.

True! But. When you bump them with your soak off's, they can still shoot your other ships at range 2-3, so if you fly a swarm you need to get all of your ships into range 1 of them. not an easy task.

They should have made it use a focus to shoot. If you had to pay a focus, it would be more balanced, IMO. Just like the blaster turret.

That way if you could bump them and take away there actions, it would be a good strategy.

If you are in the position to bump them you won't be shot anyways. Give it some time, you will adapt.

True! But. When you bump them with your soak off's, they can still shoot your other ships at range 2-3, so if you fly a swarm you need to get all of your ships into range 1 of them. not an easy task.

actually, if you fly a swarm and don't roll my dice, you can probably just outdice TLTs

TLTs are powerful, but they're not so godly that they will immediately out-joust jousters. If they don't break up your formation with obstacles, you will more than likely just steamroll through them.

you also don't have to get within range 1 with everyone. Just getting a ship into range 1 of an enemy tlt will reduce the damage that ship is taking, which gives you the ability to force damage spread across your squadron.

I don't think TLTs need a nerf. They help buff a couple of ships but are only truly terrifying in mass. Also I think Auto-thrusters are great. My interceptors have done much better since they came out. I haven't flown it against a TLT spam list but I don't think it would be too bad. On three dice with an un-modified attack your getting on average 2 hits (ish probably more like 1.5) Auto thrusters gives you one dodge. So you just have to roll a dodge or spend an action. Then if you get into range one they can't shoot.

If you have flown interceptors against TLT spam please let me know how it did I am interested to hear your thoughts.

Here's how that goes - the TLT averages 2 hits a shot (whether via Predator on a HWK or Horton on a Y, or etc, et al), so you autothruster one and spend your evade token on the other. *Bam* - denied. Second shot that turn from the same gun - 2 more hits, autothruster one...oops, evade is gone, now what? Hope you roll an evade on one of your OTHER two (non-blank) dice, or you are 1/3 of your way to dead in the first shot from the first ship.

Trust me, TLTs wilt autothruster interceptors like a firehose aimed at tissue paper - you get maybe 3 turns against them, tops, and you are dead.

EDIT: Which is, as noted, not to say that I think they are OP. I do not think they are. I just think that autothrusters as a 'fix' to the TIE Interceptor was not nearly enough. They brought Interceptors up to 'okay, nothing earth-shaking, but competitive enough...more or less...in the right hands' BEFORE the last few waves came out. Since then, though...and especially with TLT (balanced just fine against everything else) highlighting the issue, AT just seems...so very meh.

On average, an unmodified TLT shot does nothing against an autothrusting Interceptor. The turret gets 1,5 hits, the Interceptor gets 3/8 evades per die, with the ability to flip a blank to an evade on one die, giving an average of 2 evades. Of course, eventually you'll be able to get through, either with in arc R2 shooting, through tokens, target locks, Predator and so on, but it's not like two TLT Ys are anywhere near killing the Interceptor in a single round of shooting. Four of them might be able to pull it off, but the Interceptor is likely to shoot first, quite possibly along with the rest of the Empire squadron. While you're concentrating your firepower on Soontir Fel, those five Obsidians he has with him will do a number on one of your turret carriers.