I beat a brobots player 100-0 at a tournament recently with Kavil (TLT, Unhinged Astro & Predator), Palob (TLT & Recon spec) and Guri (sensor jammer & autothrusters)

We set up in opposite corners. He advanced into teh centre, whilst I slow-rolled Palob and shot kavil down the flank, with Guri somewhere imbetween, so that by the time we had shots, Palob was at R1 out of arc but had him in arc, Kavil had the lead IG out of his arc, and guri was staring him down at Range 1 face to face. The second only had R3 shots on Palob.

He was tokened up with focus and evade, so Palob stole his focus token. Kavil shot first and even with autothrusters got both hits through, making the token irrelevant. He then shot at Guri, but having lost his focus token and with no target lock only got one past the sensor jammer, which cost me a shield. Palob shot next, and again got his damage through, but the IG still had the focus token - no shields left. Then Guri shot with 4 dice, target locked and focused, and got a hit and a crit past the dice and token. The IG got the stress token crit, which meant he was now stressed, with the only green movement options involving either a bump or a move through a debris field, he went for the debris, so next turn I could finish him off easily with one TLT, whilst Guri and Palob could concentrate on the other. It was a pretty short game after that.

Brobots maybe a good answer to low PS TLT spam, but struggle against pilots with that ability to force through some extra hits or if denied their tokens. They are beatable, but you need to be careful how you deploy your pilots against them, given that they've got arc-only shots and medium PS it's possible to force them against your tanky ships and keeping your offensive ships out of arc. They do feel strong with 8 hull & shields protected by AG 3 and autothrusters, and the best dial in the game, but they have weaknesses.

Cheerio,

Ben

I don't have the time to go through the whole thread, so here are some tips against IGs (I have a squad of them that I have piloted for over 6 months and won many tournaments with). Hopefully there's some new stuff in there:

- Stress: even a single stress prevents them from k-turn and s-loop the next turn, so use every source available, flechette torpedoes, cannons, rebel captive (that works really well).

- Engage at range 2 or lower (never at range 3 where autothrusters will ruin your day)

- If you can, lure your opponent into fighting in a corner (where k-turns or s-loop have the highest chances of failing)

- With the above tactic, put asteroids at range 2-2 of a corner. A good timing will force an IG to take the long way around it, which means 2 or 3 rounds without it shooting (that's a BIG advantage)

- Consider using debris on your side of the field. That's where the IGs will try to k-turn and s-loop in the first few rounds. If they clip one of those, that's a double stress right there, which means no actions.

- Be creative with asteroid placements. If you are doing it at random then you are not helping yourself. Place formations that make it hard to k-turn or s-loop, and suddenly things will become easier.

Hope that helps.

Only read about 1/4 of this thread and all I can say is change things up until you find a combo that works for you.

I rarely play the same list twice. Unless there is a tournament, I may run 3 different lists in a night of X-Wing. I also do not usually play against people who run the same list week in and week out, just not fun for me.

Hi,

Sorry for not posting sooner, but was away for the weekend. I totally get where you are coming from as I feel Bro Bots are the hard counter to so many new lists I come up with. I was about ready to quit with the Phantom and was just bored to tears enough to drop out of competitive play vs. Fat Turrets. I understand where you are coming from. Ignore the tossers who just throw out jibs.

I think the first thing to do when trying to beat a list is figure out what it does. Now, I'll admit that I was playing up until mid July and a surgery has thrown me out of the game since then. I'm just getting back and not sure if the strategy that I always saw was the same. What I saw was that they would fly at you separately. Your opponent would try to bait you with one and the other would creep up behind you. As you committed to the one, he would either S-loop to get out of arc or he would hard turn and boost to get out of arc. That left you committed to nothing and at least one Bro Bot behind you and blasting away. With that in mind, you know how they are going to open up their fight. Once you know this, you can figure out a way to beat them with the ships that you want.

I flew Xizor and a Z-95 Swarm and beat 2 good Bro Bot lists in Regionals in my area. The real trick for my list was Flechette Torpedoes. You let him set it up all nice so that you can get all geared up towards one of his ships as they other comes up behind you. That turn, Xizor would stress him out with Flechette Torpedoes. It would give some players fits! They couldn't turn and boost to get away as a simple turn wouldn't let him escape the Z horde. He could not S-loop. That left him facing a lot of Z-95 next turn. If you can get one to bump him, you were set. Fire away and maul him. Usually drop his shields and get him into hull. Next turn, you have to evaluate things. Your opponent is probably going to do whatever he can to bug out with that wounded ship. I usually let him bug out and turn to face the ship that is coming up behind you. They usually don't see this coming. One BroBot vs. all those ships is not a good thing, even with actions. You can burn this one down quickly. From here, I just hunt down whichever one is easiest. The first ship is usually limping back and trying to help the other hurt one. Just don't flip flop too much between them and make sure to focus fire one of them down quick enough.

Now, that was just the strategy that I used. There are a lot of strategies to use and it depends on what you want to fly. Do you want to stick with Rebels? That's fine. There are a number of ships that can do well when you have the right tools. Just think of how you want to beat them. Dotswarlock gave excellent advice with Stress. Brobots hate it and if you are able to nail them at the right time, you can can defeat them. Flechette Torps are good. You don't even have to hit! There are a ton of other Stress generators to use, including Stress Bot.

Area control is another good way. Asteroid placement is good and one to consider. Maybe pushing them all to one side or having them all in the middle. Whatever way works for the ships you are using. Just pay attention when you fly your list to where the fighting seems to take place and next time put some asteroids there. Also, using low PS as blockers is good. In fact, if you have a number of ships, just play for the S-loop and spread your ships out in front of him. If you block him enough, he will bump all the way back to where he starts and then all of your ships but the first can fire. Mines are also a good way, but just be careful of your own ships.

Blount with Ion Pulse Missile is a good thing. You always hit and you can Ion a Bro Bot. Knowing where they will be is just golden. You can definitely cripple one if you can Ionize it. Maybe even throughout a cheap blocker to deny him an action...or at least in front to prevent that boost you know is coming. Do that the turn he tries to bait you and you know he's going to be hating it.

Ordnance is not a bad option vs. these guys, but you have to be a little bit more careful than usual. Their 3 Agility means they just might roll well enough to avoid most of it, which is darn frustrating. If they happen to have that Focus and Agility...well, nevermind. Still, you catch them without their tokens and it can still be worth it...if you have the right set up. I'd even say that Homing Missiles are a good option. That free Evade? Can't use it. You get to use the TL in your favor. If you are able to have a Focus and that TL, then your chances of hurting them are pretty high. If you can get Wedge to fire a Torpedo with Focus on a Brobot without tokens and you can cause some hurt, especially if that guy is out of shields. That Critical you get from Proton Torp can hurt him and the Brobot will only get 2 dice. Even with Autothrusters, your chances of doing damage with Wedge is high.

Y-wings or HWK-290's with Autoblaster Turrets are also an option. You know he will be flipping around with S-loops and such and it's not a bad idea to just ignore that high agility. If you are able to Ionize him, you also know where he is going to be. Autoblaster Cannons have 3 dice and if you are going to Ionize him, you know where he will be...especially if you also bump him. Jan Ors is also great in this regard.

Jan Ors can be a good ship to help boost your damage output for that time period when you know you have them. Maybe even boosting Wedge to ensure that you do enough damage. Just know she will be a high priority target.

I'm just saying that there are a lot of options to go with once you know how they play. Just try to find ways to hard counter exactly that. I'm just throwing out Rebel options here. There are a ton of them with Scum and Imperials, too.

Know your enemy, and knowing is half the battle.

OP can fight me since I'm terrible with brobots. They don't suit my risky play style.

First off, I love X-wing. It attracted me with the major selling points of ease of play and the visual flare of space dogfights and beautiful rendered ships. All was well with the game until the release of one ship. One ship that is the bane of balance and is as broken as anything I've ever seen, The IG-2000.

Bring a swarm? Hard counters it with double taps from both ships. Stress it? Closes and Autoblast you to hell. Sit at range two and fight in the safe zone? Dual sets of ion cannons off the board. These things are just rediculous and it has me thinking about hanging it up and just not playing. I see a pair of them in each tournament I enter. I dread seeing them, The combo is so potent and overpowering that it sucks all the fun out of the game. I was seriously hoping that I'd see some sort of balance or errata with them and yet nothing. Is it just time to hang it up or am I in the right about this? Are they in fact broken in a game where skill was the deciding factor. Not "Accuracy Correctors take two, Accuracy Corrector your Ionized, and Accuracy Corrector your destroyed" I'm tired of these things. Feeding them stress does nothing. It's like facing a Darth Vader with a chopstick while your sick with the flu in the middle of a hurricane. Seriously can anyone help or offer some insight?

*you're

I stupidly flew my brobots right into the teeth of 4 syndicate thug ion warthogs once. I severely underestimated the list and thought I could survive the first pass, maybe severely damage or down one of the y-wings. Short story: it was a disaster.

Even without idiocy on the part of the player flying the 'bots, though, there are lists out there that can counter them as well as lists that can fly against them effectively while doing well against other lists (I personally hate hard counter lists because they are often very weak to other lists).

As an example, my usual setup (predator, mangler, advanced sensors, autothrusters, inertial dampener and title on B and C) has (in my experience) torn through tie swarms, easily smashing a tie a turn. High shields, however (like BBBBZ) are a nightmare. Bear in mind that at best, they have 8 attack dice (HLC or range 1), so even with perfect luck and considering the gunner effect, you can kill a B each turn. My list can only do that under the absolute best possible circumstances. Those circumstances also likely mean you have at least one IG at range one of several B-Wings. Not a good place to be.

In my opinion (from playing the brobots, not against them), treat them like high health interceptors. Most of what can challenge an interceptor can also do serious damage to an IG, it just might take a couple turns. I like doing an advanced sensors boost, get an evade, and s-loop to the side to arc dodge and then open fire. If I screwed up and ended up in arc, I have the evade token as insurance, and predator is usually enough for an offensive punch (although focus is still an attractive choice that I take often). But if I screw up the positioning, I have to do a green maneuver next round. Now, the ship has plenty of options, but you at least know I'm not doing any hard turns or funky maneuvers. Also, with a PS of 6, even veteran instincts has them moving before and shooting after the real aces (the reason I don't bother with that upgrade). Dancing around against Soontir, a phantom, or I assume Poe with PtL and BB-8 is frustrating.

Seems to me time could be better spent figuring out ways to beat these builds rather than complaining about their existence or asking that they be nerfed. I see it in every expandable game: some new element comes out, and these really smart people can break down in exacting detail how it completely breaks the game, but these same smart people don't even try to figure out how to counter it.

I disagree, as, in practice, it was just this kind of ranting/complaining that got the Phantom back into line at an appropriate power level.

While I don't think the IG88 is as offensive as the Phantom, I do think it really requires a hard counter, and if you don't have one, no amount of skill and "good flying" will save you. If that is the definition of "broken" I think the 88's are cracked, if not downright broken.

It's like facing a Darth Vader with a chopstick while your sick with the flu in the middle of a hurricane.

*you're

If you're going to be the forum grammar pedant, could you at least do us the courtesy of quoting the line you're correcting and deleting the rest? As above, maybe? Thanking you kindly in advance!

I need to fly a lot more games against IG88s with different lists to see.

I've found that with stealth devices and evades they are nigh impossible to hit with my tempestACs.

Seems to me time could be better spent figuring out ways to beat these builds rather than complaining about their existence or asking that they be nerfed. I see it in every expandable game: some new element comes out, and these really smart people can break down in exacting detail how it completely breaks the game, but these same smart people don't even try to figure out how to counter it.

I disagree, as, in practice, it was just this kind of ranting/complaining that got the Phantom back into line at an appropriate power level.

While I don't think the IG88 is as offensive as the Phantom, I do think it really requires a hard counter, and if you don't have one, no amount of skill and "good flying" will save you. If that is the definition of "broken" I think the 88's are cracked, if not downright broken.

Ranting didn't cause the phantom nerf. Tournament skew did. IG's have nowhere near that kind of impact.

I don't even think that tournament skew caused the phantom nerf.

Rather the faq was RAI as opposed to RAW. (Given as i have often anecdotally pointed out, I erroneously flew my phantoms pre-nerf with the ruling that game from the nerf).

To the OP: I agree with your general distaste of the IG-88. I hate flying against it. I don't think it's unbeatable, but I do think it requires the right tools to lock it up, and to the extent that it requires hard counters (just like anything else that requires hard counters; pre-nerf phantoms and fat hans), my ass tends to get a bit chaffed over stuff like that. I also think it's stats and maneuver dial are...ugh. A large ship with 9 greens and the rest whites Yeah, I get it; it only has the default firing arc, poor little brobot.

I guess what bugs me in gaming design is any situation where you design something with an extreme paradigm that you are committed to, and then put in all other sorts of compensation to offset that. This in turn, requires an opponent to either take or play something else in a prescribed way in order to win. An example is when that Gee-Doubleyou company decided to make all their Elfies with Toughness 3 (even characters) but then put in all manner of other things to protect them. I guess all I'm really doing here is rhetorically reverse-engineering the concept of hard counters.

But I would agree with the others; it can be beat. That was never in question; I think even you knew/know that before you came on the boards. The question is: can it be beat with you flying the models or list that you really want to fly? Maybe yes, maybe no; I'm not sure how flexible you are. I do think you need to have a lot of post-dial movement options (to wit: boosts and barrel rolls), with higher PS than the bro-bots, and stress options. To the extent you can build squads you like to play doing that, I'm pretty sure you'll see more success. As with all things in these types of games, though, be sure to build a squad that can take all comers, or you'll be quickly dying against some other squad and you'll get chaffed again.

Seems to me time could be better spent figuring out ways to beat these builds rather than complaining about their existence or asking that they be nerfed. I see it in every expandable game: some new element comes out, and these really smart people can break down in exacting detail how it completely breaks the game, but these same smart people don't even try to figure out how to counter it.

I disagree, as, in practice, it was just this kind of ranting/complaining that got the Phantom back into line at an appropriate power level.

While I don't think the IG88 is as offensive as the Phantom, I do think it really requires a hard counter, and if you don't have one, no amount of skill and "good flying" will save you. If that is the definition of "broken" I think the 88's are cracked, if not downright broken.

Just fly anything with 4 B's or 4 Y's. They should crumble the majority of the time. If they don't then someone is getting outplayed.

Ranting didn't cause the phantom nerf. Tournament skew did. IG's have nowhere near that kind of impact.

That's a fair point, though I'd guess it was a combination of tournament skew and the general community unhappiness with Phantoms. Afterall, Fat Hans have historically had a high representation in tournies, yet YT's didn't get a nerf...

Seems to me time could be better spent figuring out ways to beat these builds rather than complaining about their existence or asking that they be nerfed. I see it in every expandable game: some new element comes out, and these really smart people can break down in exacting detail how it completely breaks the game, but these same smart people don't even try to figure out how to counter it.

I disagree, as, in practice, it was just this kind of ranting/complaining that got the Phantom back into line at an appropriate power level.

While I don't think the IG88 is as offensive as the Phantom, I do think it really requires a hard counter, and if you don't have one, no amount of skill and "good flying" will save you. If that is the definition of "broken" I think the 88's are cracked, if not downright broken.

Just fly anything with 4 B's or 4 Y's. They should crumble the majority of the time. If they don't then someone is getting outplayed.

Ranting didn't cause the phantom nerf. Tournament skew did. IG's have nowhere near that kind of impact.

That's a fair point, though I'd guess it was a combination of tournament skew and the general community unhappiness with Phantoms. Afterall, Fat Hans have historically had a high representation in tournies, yet YT's didn't get a nerf...

Link on what I usually face. http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/312226/the-bane

I like how most of this thread has continued without a single person addressing the actual build that OP seems to be having issues playing against. Here it is, for reference:

IG88-B @ 50 points

Veteran Instincts (1)

Accuracy Corrector (3)

Ion Cannon (3)

Autoblaster (5)

IG-2000 (0)

Autothrusters (2)

IG88-D @ 50pts

Veteran Instincts (1)

Accuracy Corrector (3)

Ion Cannon (3)

Autoblaster (5)

IG-2000 (0)

Autothrusters (2)

It's like facing a Darth Vader with a chopstick while your sick with the flu in the middle of a hurricane.

*you're

If you're going to be the forum grammar pedant, could you at least do us the courtesy of quoting the line you're correcting and deleting the rest? As above, maybe? Thanking you kindly in advance!

Would have done, but he did it so many times! I didn't even notice the one you've isolated.

Would have done, but he did it so many times! I didn't even notice the one you've isolated.

LOL - fair enough!

First off, I love X-wing. It attracted me with the major selling points of ease of play and the visual flare of space dogfights and beautiful rendered ships. All was well with the game until the release of one ship. One ship that is the bane of balance and is as broken as anything I've ever seen, The IG-2000.

Bring a swarm? Hard counters it with double taps from both ships. Stress it? Closes and Autoblast you to hell. Sit at range two and fight in the safe zone? Dual sets of ion cannons off the board. These things are just rediculous and it has me thinking about hanging it up and just not playing. I see a pair of them in each tournament I enter. I dread seeing them, The combo is so potent and overpowering that it sucks all the fun out of the game. I was seriously hoping that I'd see some sort of balance or errata with them and yet nothing. Is it just time to hang it up or am I in the right about this? Are they in fact broken in a game where skill was the deciding factor. Not "Accuracy Correctors take two, Accuracy Corrector your Ionized, and Accuracy Corrector your destroyed" I'm tired of these things. Feeding them stress does nothing. It's like facing a Darth Vader with a chopstick while your sick with the flu in the middle of a hurricane. Seriously can anyone help or offer some insight?

*you're

Sentence fragments are a far worse violation of the Rules of Grammar than the misuse of a homophone.

*you're

Sentence fragments are a far worse violation of the Rules of Grammar than the misuse of a homophone.

So's you're face.

*you're

Sentence fragments are a far worse violation of the Rules of Grammar than the misuse of a homophone.

So's you're face.

Walked into that one.

The major counter to BroBots is obstacles because BroBots only have a front arc and have a large base. So, Brobots can't just fly past the obstacles and keep attacking.

Frankly, my impression of the Aggressor is it's a strong ship that still has a number of limitations and weaknesses that allow for good counterplay and can be playable at multiple skill levels*- Basically what I'd call Good Design.

*As opposed to the T-65 X-wing and Z-95, which have a relatively low skill ceiling, and Echo, who has a very high skill floor. Not that either of those are really bad things per se, just that it's nice to have a ship both inexperienced and veteran players can appreciate.

Link on what I usually face. http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/312226/the-bane

I like how most of this thread has continued without a single person addressing the actual build that OP seems to be having issues playing against. Here it is, for reference:IG88-B @ 50 pointsVeteran Instincts (1)Accuracy Corrector (3)Ion Cannon (3)Autoblaster (5)IG-2000 (0)Autothrusters (2)IG88-D @ 50ptsVeteran Instincts (1)Accuracy Corrector (3)Ion Cannon (3)Autoblaster (5)IG-2000 (0)Autothrusters (2)

Possibly also 3 blues with a Warden Squadron pilot with Intel agent, ion bomb, conner net, advanced slam and extra munitions?

To the OP: I agree with your general distaste of the IG-88. I hate flying against it. I don't think it's unbeatable, but I do think it requires the right tools to lock it up, and to the extent that it requires hard counters (just like anything else that requires hard counters; pre-nerf phantoms and fat hans), my ass tends to get a bit chaffed over stuff like that. I also think it's stats and maneuver dial are...ugh. A large ship with 9 greens and the rest whites Yeah, I get it; it only has the default firing arc, poor little brobot.

I guess what bugs me in gaming design is any situation where you design something with an extreme paradigm that you are committed to, and then put in all other sorts of compensation to offset that. This in turn, requires an opponent to either take or play something else in a prescribed way in order to win. An example is when that Gee-Doubleyou company decided to make all their Elfies with Toughness 3 (even characters) but then put in all manner of other things to protect them. I guess all I'm really doing here is rhetorically reverse-engineering the concept of hard counters.

But I would agree with the others; it can be beat. That was never in question; I think even you knew/know that before you came on the boards. The question is: can it be beat with you flying the models or list that you really want to fly? Maybe yes, maybe no; I'm not sure how flexible you are. I do think you need to have a lot of post-dial movement options (to wit: boosts and barrel rolls), with higher PS than the bro-bots, and stress options. To the extent you can build squads you like to play doing that, I'm pretty sure you'll see more success. As with all things in these types of games, though, be sure to build a squad that can take all comers, or you'll be quickly dying against some other squad and you'll get chaffed again.

In what way does any variety of Brobots require a hard counter? It's a competitive list but it's not as successful as multiple other list we see, numbers can be misconstrued but they don't lie. The forward arc is a huge draw back for a ship that cost half your squad points. Also don't underestimate some of the disadvantages of being a large base such as being easier to block and making obstacles harder to dodge, both things that are once again horrible when you have one or both of your 2 ships not firing. If you hate Brobots so much I suggest you practice your blocking game and figer out some better asteroid set ups cause I can tell you that both give me fits when playing any variety of them.