The thing that gets me is that you complain about each IG-2000 loadout as if every squad is carrying those options. That's impossible! IG-2000 is a good ship, but it really does take skill to fly, so you have to accept that either you're not as skilled as your opponents or your lists just aren't suited to face them so you should try something new. In what way are they beating you? If you're really resistant to changing your squad, try to figure out what they do that destroys your squad and prepare for it. Blocking is key, but always strive to be unpredictable.

As for me, I got tired of trying to get meaningful damage through with only 2 ships, so I've switched from dual Aggressors to 5-ship Scum squads at PS 2. Having more guns is easier, in my opinion, and if I make a mistake and land on an asteroid, that's 20% of my list unable to fire instead of 50%. Maybe you should try more ships. My most recent list is 2 Autoblaster Y-wings, 2 Mangler Scyks, and 1 Kihraxz. I've got three 3-attack ships and uncancellable damage on the other two shis. That's some decent potential damage.

Lets be completely honest here, dual IG-2000 is one of the easier lists to fly, the same goes for any low count identical ship build. To fly any ship well does take skill, but having only 2 dials that are identical as well as the same PS makes it far easier for planning, activation and maneuvering phase. I do agree with you that it is very unforgiving when blocked or on asteroids as you lose 50% of your firepower and actions. The problem is his list has little cohesiveness (the A-wings and Biggs), sub-par ships (A-wings and T-65s) and can be arc dodged by the IGs. His skill is an unknown but even a skilled player would have trouble beating them with that list.

You know, that squad will probably look pretty good again once the inevitable T-65 X-wing patch comes out.

Depending on what the fix is, it's hard to say just how it'll fare against Brobots (Wedge with an extra HP vs Wedge with repositioning is a big difference, after all)... but it should be doable.

Not sure if they will be patched or not. I think the t-70 will have it's own niche.

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/312224/squad-1 My most normal squadron. I bring biggs and wedge and use the A-wings as flankers.

The IGs are a ton of fun and can prove quite challenging to beat.

That being said I have several points I'd like to make:

1) Pretty much any squad can beat any squad in this game. The list you were using is fine if you play it differently. First off you would have to fly in a squad to take the best use of biggs. 2nd you would want to close as soon as possible. Getting to range one is where you will do most of your damage. After the first pass you need to use the A-wings as blockers to enable Wedge. A big part of this game is know when you have to fly your list differently,

Also you need to be able to tell where he is going to fly. If your newer at the game or don't know the ship/player enough to be able to predict the IG players movement then your going to lose pretty much no matter what. The IGs are really flexible and if your opponent knows your moves/plans they are one of the best lists right now.

2) The straight counter to almost all Scum builds is high pilot skill that has barrel roll or boost so it can re-act to the scum players moves. Unfortunately the X-wing is one of the easiest ships to out maneuver right now. So unless your flying is better than your enemy, your at a disadvantage in this match-up.

3) When your in a tough spot the easiest way I've found to get back in a game (or at least an game that isn't on a time limit) is to do the unexpected and disengage until you can wheel around for an attack and have an action. Often just doing something your enemy wouldn't expect can throw them off. A lot of X-wing is a bluff game.

4) Asteroids and Debris fields. When deploying these look at your list and look at your enemy list. If your list is more maneuverable you generally want to fight in an asteroid field. If its less maneuverable you want open space. In this specific case you want open space but asteroids on your side so that if the IG's do a sigmars loop they will have to worry about running into them. I'll admit this is hard to pull off, as you want to design straight lanes of obstacles and you will have to guess well at when you are going to engage.

I've been playing X-wing since its release. I'm not a world tournament winner but I think I have a good understanding of the game and I am still under the impression that if you fly any list how you want to fly better than your opponents list you stand a good chance of winning. Some lists are a little dated to be sure (four x-wings rarely work out for me) but most of the time the game comes down to skill. I'm not trying to be ranty or trying to insult you. If you still disagree with me after this, no worries. But I hope you don't quit the game, its one of if not the best miniatures games out there for all skill level of players.

Thats my two cents, sorry if its a bit long.

You can try this.

T-70 Poe, Lone Wolf, R5-P9, Auto Thrusters

(X2) Dagger Squadron B-Wings

Z-95 Bandit Squadron

Poe does not go down easy if at all. ALWAYS keep a focus on him. He is your flanker.

The Daggers are PS 4 to counter any TLT lists you may come across. Slow roll them in on the same BroBot and keep rolling those red dice. At PS 4 they can shoot the PS 2 Y-Wings first.

The Bandit Z-95's job one is to get where the target BroBot is going to be. The Z-95's main job is to action deny your target.

This list can handle BroBots and can throw down with the TLT spam lists. Poe with a focus up and Lone Wolf shreds TLT Y-Wings.

Good Luck.....Don't give up.

.

The IGs are a ton of fun and can prove quite challenging to beat.

That being said I have several points I'd like to make:

1) Pretty much any squad can beat any squad in this game. The list you were using is fine if you play it differently. First off you would have to fly in a squad to take the best use of biggs. 2nd you would want to close as soon as possible. Getting to range one is where you will do most of your damage. After the first pass you need to use the A-wings as blockers to enable Wedge. A big part of this game is know when you have to fly your list differently,

Also you need to be able to tell where he is going to fly. If your newer at the game or don't know the ship/player enough to be able to predict the IG players movement then your going to lose pretty much no matter what. The IGs are really flexible and if your opponent knows your moves/plans they are one of the best lists right now.

2) The straight counter to almost all Scum builds is high pilot skill that has barrel roll or boost so it can re-act to the scum players moves. Unfortunately the X-wing is one of the easiest ships to out maneuver right now. So unless your flying is better than your enemy, your at a disadvantage in this match-up.

3) When your in a tough spot the easiest way I've found to get back in a game (or at least an game that isn't on a time limit) is to do the unexpected and disengage until you can wheel around for an attack and have an action. Often just doing something your enemy wouldn't expect can throw them off. A lot of X-wing is a bluff game.

4) Asteroids and Debris fields. When deploying these look at your list and look at your enemy list. If your list is more maneuverable you generally want to fight in an asteroid field. If its less maneuverable you want open space. In this specific case you want open space but asteroids on your side so that if the IG's do a sigmars loop they will have to worry about running into them. I'll admit this is hard to pull off, as you want to design straight lanes of obstacles and you will have to guess well at when you are going to engage.

I've been playing X-wing since its release. I'm not a world tournament winner but I think I have a good understanding of the game and I am still under the impression that if you fly any list how you want to fly better than your opponents list you stand a good chance of winning. Some lists are a little dated to be sure (four x-wings rarely work out for me) but most of the time the game comes down to skill. I'm not trying to be ranty or trying to insult you. If you still disagree with me after this, no worries. But I hope you don't quit the game, its one of if not the best miniatures games out there for all skill level of players.

Thats my two cents, sorry if its a bit long.

Long or not it is appreciated. That list above was one of my most common lists. Last night and today I took squads with a K-wing and it did perform extremely well. Then I ran into these things yet again and just got trashed.

I'll link those and ask for help/critique as what I was shooting for.

You can try this.

T-70 Poe, Lone Wolf, R5-P9, Auto Thrusters

(X2) Dagger Squadron B-Wings

Z-95 Bandit Squadron

Poe does not go down easy if at all. ALWAYS keep a focus on him. He is your flanker.

The Daggers are PS 4 to counter any TLT lists you may come across. Slow roll them in on the same BroBot and keep rolling those red dice. At PS 4 they can shoot the PS 2 Y-Wings first.

The Bandit Z-95's job one is to get where the target BroBot is going to be. The Z-95's main job is to action deny your target.

This list can handle BroBots and can throw down with the TLT spam lists. Poe with a focus up and Lone Wolf shreds TLT Y-Wings.

Good Luck.....Don't give up.

.

Thanks bud, I can't wait to get him. I want Poe soooo **** bad.

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/312260/k-wing-testbed-1 - tested today. went 3W/2L

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/312224/k-wing-testbed-2- tested yesterday went W2/L1

Should I swap out something for a B-wing? or another Z? I'm also thinking about dropping the torps as well and adding in either a pilot talent or changing the bombs out and adding bombardier.

I wish everyone was as constructive as some of these old school guys.

I concur, the X-Wings are in dire need of help and they won't do well against the IG's. B-Wings are great though.

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/312260/k-wing-testbed-1 - tested today. went 3W/2L

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/312224/k-wing-testbed-2- tested yesterday went W2/L1

Should I swap out something for a B-wing? or another Z? I'm also thinking about dropping the torps as well and adding in either a pilot talent or changing the bombs out and adding bombardier.

I have not played with or against a K-Wing yet. So I don't really have any tested advise for you. I would say the first list looks a little short on fire-power and health. That being said both those lists you have more wins then losses against so they must do alright for you.

If you continue to have issues with the IGs after a couple more games with one list, ask your opponent what they thought you could do differently to have the list perform better against that list.

To be fair, while i don't find brobots unbeatable or over powered, they can be tough to beat.

I DO think that they are probably undercosted though for what you get.

The two ships most similar to them are the defender and firespray. Its hard to argue either of them are better for equal points.

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/312260/k-wing-testbed-1 - tested today. went 3W/2L

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/312224/k-wing-testbed-2- tested yesterday went W2/L1

Should I swap out something for a B-wing? or another Z? I'm also thinking about dropping the torps as well and adding in either a pilot talent or changing the bombs out and adding bombardier.

I have not played with or against a K-Wing yet. So I don't really have any tested advise for you. I would say the first list looks a little short on fire-power and health. That being said both those lists you have more wins then losses against so they must do alright for you.

If you continue to have issues with the IGs after a couple more games with one list, ask your opponent what they thought you could do differently to have the list perform better against that list.

After over analyzing my last battle I screwed up in two major areas, I could have slammed myself out of the arcs. Which I missed the opportunity for, The best game I had just the K-Wing and used the bombs for map control and to make potential chasers peel off. While using the pilot ability to recover/sacrifice shields while the Y-wing come in from either the side or slowfoot it to deliver 5-6 dice. Lt. Blount offers further control with the ion torp (nine times out of 10 right into either a connor net or a brace of mines) In addition the Y-wing offering a spare target lock action to a friendly ships allows blount to either focus or allows the K-wing to focus (which it can do for either defense,offense and TLT can seriously drive someone with Autothrusters nuts.) Most folks see the K-wing dial and go ewww. Not factoring in the Slam action.

My mistake was not using it to make a brobot chase me around the map and let my Y-wing/ Blount flank and deliver the coup de grace. Another point that was a learning experience is bombardier.

I'm seriously considering taking this instead of the recon specialist due to the bomb drop that it allows.

Most players in big ships like to engage in the 2/3 range. This equalizes that and further puts pressure on them to keep their distance while trying to target and burst down the ships one at a time.

To be fair, while i don't find brobots unbeatable or over powered, they can be tough to beat.

I DO think that they are probably undercosted though for what you get.

The two ships most similar to them are the defender and firespray. Its hard to argue either of them are better for equal points.

Defenders and Firesprays are both excellent examples of ships that need a bit of a boost.

(Firesprays less so, but beyond Bounty Hunter spam and Scum elites... you don't see 'em much, and for good reason.)

Haven't flown against Brobots myself so I can't offer any constructive advise but I've heard that they can be tough to beat. Although, regarding OP's original post I do have this to say; if anything came close to breaking the game it was pre-faqed Tie Phantom not the IG-2000. Whisper and Echo will crush Brobots hands down.

Haven't flown against Brobots myself so I can't offer any constructive advise but I've heard that they can be tough to beat. Although, regarding OP's original post I do have this to say; if anything came close to breaking the game it was pre-faqed Tie Phantom not the IG-2000. Whisper and Echo will crush Brobots hands down.

Whisper and Echo were easily countered by a turret based ship or the B-wing without the secondary arc. Pre FAQ I launched Adv proton torps at it had a focus as well and blew it off the table in a single round. Was quite satisfying lol. Also thanks to so many folks who are giving advice and helping me become a better player. I appreciate it.

Haven't flown against Brobots myself so I can't offer any constructive advise but I've heard that they can be tough to beat. Although, regarding OP's original post I do have this to say; if anything came close to breaking the game it was pre-faqed Tie Phantom not the IG-2000. Whisper and Echo will crush Brobots hands down.

Whisper and Echo were easily countered by a turret based ship or the B-wing without the secondary arc. Pre FAQ I launched Adv proton torps at it had a focus as well and blew it off the table in a single round. Was quite satisfying lol. Also thanks to so many folks who are giving advice and helping me become a better player. I appreciate it.

Arc dodgers will always suffer against turrets. Echo is still very viable and I would be very afraid to see him if I was flying b-wings.

"Great, kid! Don't get cocky!"

I just played a Brobot build with Whisper, Soontir, and Dark Curse with a stealth device. Barely lost with a fluke range 3 shot to Soontir where there was a double damage crit and I blanked my green dice. Had one down to 2 hull and if Soontir had survived I would have taken a win with no ships gone.

My son played the same build with Dash with a Mangler Cannon and Keyan with HLC and cleared them off the table. Dash was damaged but still alive.

They are beatable. Right now I am more concerned with 4 Ywings running Twin Laser Turrets and BTL upgrade. Hard to find a good counter to that many red dice.

It wouldn't be an internet message board without this type of "hey, I'm leaving!" Post.

It wouldn't be an internet message board without this type of "hey, I'm leaving!" Post.

I see your "Hey I have nothing to add other than some troll." and I raise you a "Hey I need some help I'm getting discouraged and frustrated." What do you do when you see a player struggling? Sit back and laugh or step in and try to help?

Can I have your stuff?

But really, that squad - if it's your most commonly used one - I'm surprised you win anything at all. Honestly, it's kind of terrible by the current standards. That's a solid Wave 2 build. But we're not there any more. The game has adapted and moved on. Sticking to a squad that was useful two years ago, and complaining that newer builds are OP, just says that you're unwilling to change and are unhappy that the game has moved on past you.

I do play other things, I've tried A-wing swarms, Z Swarms (Which I found out were woefully ineffective as I feared with just two dice per ship against 3 evasion). Warthog swarms. Falcon+E-wing.

Also that squad combo brought me a long way "outdated" or not. It does work. Also if I decide to walk away from the game you can have my stuff for the right price.

friend of mine likes to kick out his Z swarm now and again.. he loads them with Cluster missiles and annihilates ships in a couple turns.. focus fire down the big names and then run the board..

I find people stagnate if they don't change with the new stuff coming out..

I fly a lot of bomber lists, I have fun and I win some games.. some day, I win all the games .it depends on the opponent and the list they run..

I'm working on a Punisher and TIE list, using Howlrunner and a couple Black squads.. I've been fairly successful with it, with more wins than losses. Will run it at the next tourney at our local shop.. I'm also thinking of a K wing list that seems fairly good right now.. Miranda and an A wing and a Y wing.. TLTs on the K & Y and using the A for a blocker for a nice parking lot set up.. lol.. it's been fun

Try some new ideas, there are a few good suggestions already here.. give em a try..

And so we will turn to the Good Movies for advice and comfort as we all must, from time to time.

And we are minded of the words of Davish Krail, he who was better known as Gold 5

And he spake "Lost Tiree, Lost Dutch"

Replied Garven Dreis, focused as always "Copy Gold Leader"

And Krail spake again, imploring the stalwart companions to not be fooled: "They came from... behind".

And thus we must heed his advice; that when you are faced with an enemy bristling with weapons on the front, endeavour to attack from the rear.

Jeez guys, quit harassing the dude. Fly casual remember? Why is it every time someone wants to vent their frustrations, even when trying to coach them through it, we come off as jerks?

To Lyon, feel your pain dude pre-nerf phantom had me at that point. Hell I still post nerf have serious problems with the thing. A good place to start pounding on them is to analyze what type of shop they are, and they are jousters first high mobility second. Now we look at that and say okay, what beats jousters? Well, arc-dodgers. Cool but the boys also have maneuverability. What beats that, answer, higher pilot skill. And they are a seven. So we need arc dodgers that are higher PS than seven. And you like A-wings, great, let's break out Tycho and/or Jake and suit them all the way up. Then fill with some stuff that covers your weakness which will be turrets, so a bunch of Z-95s and than tactics. Threaten a large zone with your swarm of Z's so they become bogged down and have to deal with you at some level there while your A-wing/s fly crazy in the back before zipping up on a flank or diving straight into one to grapple it for a turn while the other is looking the wrong way and you can shoot him.

Cheer up ace. Back to flight school to study harder to fight the new foe!

Thanks Force, I've had quite a bit to stew on. Gonna try some way vast and new things in the near future. I'll update here as I go.

Now I think IG's are annoying. But definitely not OP. They get beaten too much for OP.

First off, I love X-wing. It attracted me with the major selling points of ease of play and the visual flare of space dogfights and beautiful rendered ships. All was well with the game until the release of one ship. One ship that is the bane of balance and is as broken as anything I've ever seen, The IG-2000.

Bring a swarm? Hard counters it with double taps from both ships. Stress it? Closes and Autoblast you to hell. Sit at range two and fight in the safe zone? Dual sets of ion cannons off the board. These things are just rediculous and it has me thinking about hanging it up and just not playing. I see a pair of them in each tournament I enter. I dread seeing them, The combo is so potent and overpowering that it sucks all the fun out of the game. I was seriously hoping that I'd see some sort of balance or errata with them and yet nothing. Is it just time to hang it up or am I in the right about this? Are they in fact broken in a game where skill was the deciding factor. Not "Accuracy Correctors take two, Accuracy Corrector your Ionized, and Accuracy Corrector your destroyed" I'm tired of these things. Feeding them stress does nothing. It's like facing a Darth Vader with a chopstick while your sick with the flu in the middle of a hurricane. Seriously can anyone help or offer some insight?

Perhaps, and this is not meant to sound flippant, but you need to learn how to play?

I would rather face the Brothers IG than either Corran Horn or these days Miranda.

Every time I've flown one it has gone down very quickly, being green dice dependent is inherently risky.

And yeah, this forum is filled with the tears of x wingers who are angry that x wings lack that X factor to work these days. And a wings? That's your problem right there, 2-3 dice vs 3-4 defence dice + autothrusters?

Statistics tells you this is a hiding to nothing.