NOTE revision: 'Royal Guard' from 'TIE Interceptor only' to 'TIEs only'.

A couple things have been rubbing me just slightly the wrong way, as far as apparent missed opportunities, and I think this small-ish tweak could address them.

To whit, the issues I'm kinda annoyed by:

• The TIE/x1 title being auto-include. As in, on a TIE Advanced, you would never, ever, ever, EVER think of flying without it. For no reason. Ever. If you have a TIE Advanced, you take /x1. Because why would you not? It costs literally nothing - no point cost, no opportunity cost, no anything. Just a free huge upgrade with no downside. No reason not to take it. Having this *other* potential 0-point upgrade out there, on the other hand, would open up the possibility of something to compete with the title 'slot' on the Advanced. (I mean, sure, the '/x1' title is way better, so practically you'll always take that one...but at least this way, it's turned into a choice)
• The 'Twin Ion Engine Mk. II' upgrade being monstrously overpriced, to the point I really don't think we'll see it that often. Oh, sure, it's point cost is very reasonable looked at in a vacuum...but very nearly anything that can take it would be VASTLY better served with a hull upgrade or stealth device sitting in that 'slot'. IE., the opportunity cost of this item...taking this means you don't take something else...becomes rather staggering.

Tweaking the 'Royal Guard' title to be Imperial-only vs just Interceptor-only (and nothing else - the PS4 limit still applies) would address both of these. The TIE Advanced gets a competition for it's title slot, so there is at least some decision to make there. The Mk II engine gets a new lease on life, as while it rarely makes sense as the FIRST choice for a modification slot...I could see it rather often making sense as a second choice for that slot.

And thematically, the idea is completely sound. After all, the only time (on-screen) we saw the Emperor escorted by *any* fighters...they were regular TIE Fighters, not even Interceptors. Royal Guard TIE Fighters? Can't do it, right now. And the TIE Defender - if in name, given nothing else, and certainly in the video game that gave us the ship - was almost BUILT for the role. Royal Guard TIE Defenders? Again, impossible at the moment.

Only question would be - does this create any 'broken' combos? The most problematic I could think of would be adding engine upgrade + autothrusters to...well...anything, now. However, we are talking about spending 6 points to do that (EU is 4, AT is 2) as well as using up the 'title' slot. Oh, and can only really be used on named pilots, anyway - the Empire has only the one 'generic' with high enough PS to take the title, and it ALREADY CAN do that (although it doesn't need to, anyway), so...no harm, there, as far as I can see.

Thoughts? Would this save the lowly (named) TIE Fighters and (named) TIE Bombers in our current meta?

Everything Imperial gets Boost and Autothrusters for 6 points! Yaaaaaayyyyyyy!

Everything Imperial gets Boost and Autothrusters for 6 points! Yaaaaaayyyyyyy!

I see someone didn't read the post.

Take another shot at that...

It bears emphasis. You want other upgrades titles to be used? Not going to happen with that combo.

Hell, if ACD AND Stygium Particle Accelerator didn't give you pause, then nothing will.

....no. Just no.

The TIE/x1 title is an auto-include. That's true. It's not brilliant game design, but the original design was so bloody terrible that it needed a drastic fix. And honestly, the Royal Guard title will do practically nothing for the TIE Advanced -- chucking six more points on an already horrifically overpriced ship won't fix it.

Secondly . . . do you really want Chirpy with Autothrusters? Or Engine AND EI + Expose?

Edit -- to clarify, I know you mentioned autothrusters. But really, Chiraneau doesn't need any more damage mitigation (with a turret and boost, staying at Range 3 isn't super tough).

There's also the question of forward-compatibility -- what might future releases bring?

So you don't think a Tie phantom with an ACD and a SPA would cause any balance issues?

I read it, but the everything would literally just take EU and AT. Defenders don't need Mk.II if they can boost and get consistent modifiers. Lambdas also get boost and consistent modifiers. Decimators also get boost and consistent modifiers. Phantoms get boost and consistent modifiers. Thematically, everything gets boost and consistent modifiers. Why would anyone want to take anything less than the best combination of upgrades at that point?

It's limitation to interceptors only is what keeps it from breaking the faction. We can apply this logic to rebels too, what if A-Wing Test Pilot wasn't limited to the A-Wing only? Corran would love to have VI and PtL. Makes sense thematically. Wedge + Predator and Opportunist is cool, too. And we'd also love to see Han + Pred + anything that will make him only better.

Then Scum gets boned, unless everything gets the Heavy Scyk title so that Khiraxz can take cannons.

I am going to have to say no, but I agree there should be more titles out there so Tie/X1 is not auto-include.

I just flew Deathrain with Twin Ion Engine MK. II last night. The first game I got the the Loose Stabilizer critical and never flipped it down, it was worth 1 point for sure. The second game it wasn't as pivotal but it still helped open up the punisher dial.

The only named TIE/LN pilot that I don't use or see is Winged Gundark and that could change with new meta focusing on lower PS bid.

So you don't think a Tie phantom with an ACD and a SPA would cause any balance issues?

It's not like it would be free - the thing would still be paying 6 points for that.

And while it would certainly give the ship quite a bump...honestly, it's completely vanished from the meta since the nerf. I mean, like...COMPLETELY. Even the Phantom fanatics aren't flying it, anymore, and it's not placing very well in highly-competitive (regional or higher) events, either.

While I certainly agree the nerf was needed - badly - it did maybe go just a *touch* too far. As in...the Phantom is now dead.

So - no, I don't think ACD + SPA would be enough to break it, again, actually. Maybe enough to return it to competitive events?

The boost and autothrusters is probably the biggest issue, not that this is overpowered, but that this ends up making things homogenous - even worse is the pilot skill limitation, since it could end up forcing some ships (like the defender) to only take named pilots.

The other issue (and in practice, probably the reason this kind of thing can't happen now) is that they try not to repeat themselves with a fix. This means that the defender fix probably won't come in the form of a flat points reduction - the a wing got there first. Likewise, it's not getting a discounted systems slot, and I doubt it's getting a discounted cannon slot, since that seems too close for me.

So... I think you're right, the royal guard title would work thematically and mechanically, but I'm not sure that the end result would open up enough options to make this the right choice? If the inclusion of a fix like the royal guard title was to limit choices, then it's probably not a good fix, I think.

So you don't think a Tie phantom with an ACD and a SPA would cause any balance issues?

It's not like it would be free - the thing would still be paying 6 points for that.

And while it would certainly give the ship quite a bump...honestly, it's completely vanished from the meta since the nerf. I mean, like...COMPLETELY. Even the Phantom fanatics aren't flying it, anymore, and it's not placing very well in highly-competitive (regional or higher) events, either.

While I certainly agree the nerf was needed - badly - it did maybe go just a *touch* too far. As in...the Phantom is now dead.

So - no, I don't think ACD + SPA would be enough to break it, again, actually. Maybe enough to return it to competitive events?

I'm not sure we are looking at the same results. Soontir may be slightly more popular with Chiraneu, but Whisper still sees play.

The 'Twin Ion Engine Mk. II' upgrade being monstrously overpriced, to the point I really don't think we'll see it that often. Oh, sure, it's point cost is very reasonable looked at in a vacuum...but very nearly anything that can take it would be VASTLY better served with a hull upgrade or stealth device sitting in that 'slot'.

Punishers?

Literally anything where you can spare 1 point but not 3?

"Monstrously overpriced" is complete hyperbole. TIE Mk 2 has its niche. Yes, most of the time you probably want Autothrusters or Stealth or Engine Upgrade in your mod slot if you can afford it and the value of the ship justifies it but so what? Not every card can be the best possible choice for its slot every time. If a card is the best choice some of the time, it's a decent card.

• The 'Twin Ion Engine Mk. II' upgrade being monstrously overpriced, to the point I really don't think we'll see it that often. Oh, sure, it's point cost is very reasonable looked at in a vacuum...but very nearly anything that can take it would be VASTLY better served with a hull upgrade or stealth device sitting in that 'slot'. IE., the opportunity cost of this item...taking this means you don't take something else...becomes rather staggering.

This is a solid upgrade choice on Defenders, Punishers, Bombers, and Advanceds at 1 point. Would it have been cooler if it had the same exact effect as R2 or Unhinger Astromech? Of course it would.

I don't know that the upgrade is an auto-include on those ships but makes a huge difference in those ships' abilities to get ditch stress.

Until there are more good low cost Modifications available there isn't really much of an opportunity cost to taking it.

Royal guard phantoms

No

• The 'Twin Ion Engine Mk. II' upgrade being monstrously overpriced, to the point I really don't think we'll see it that often. Oh, sure, it's point cost is very reasonable looked at in a vacuum...but very nearly anything that can take it would be VASTLY better served with a hull upgrade or stealth device sitting in that 'slot'. IE., the opportunity cost of this item...taking this means you don't take something else...becomes rather staggering.

This is a solid upgrade choice on Defenders, Punishers, Bombers, and Advanceds at 1 point. Would it have been cooler if it had the same exact effect as R2 or Unhinger Astromech? Of course it would.

I don't know that the upgrade is an auto-include on those ships but makes a huge difference in those ships' abilities to get ditch stress.

Until there are more good low cost Modifications available there isn't really much of an opportunity cost to taking it.

Don't forget some utility on Night Beast.

The TIE/x1 title being auto-include. As in, on a TIE Advanced, you would never, ever, ever, EVER think of flying without it. For no reason. Ever. If you have a TIE Advanced, you take /x1. Because why would you not? It costs literally nothing - no point cost, no opportunity cost, no anything. Just a free huge upgrade with no downside. No reason not to take it. Having this *other* potential 0-point upgrade out there, on the other hand, would open up the possibility of something to compete with the title 'slot' on the Advanced. (I mean, sure, the '/x1' title is way better, so practically you'll always take that one...but at least this way, it's turned into a choice)

Because you'd never want to run an untitled advanced: they suck. TIE/x1 is autoinclude because it's a fix card: a patch. If they made it so that you'd consider not taking it, it would fail as a fix. It's excessively good to cancel out the TIE advanced's excessively badness.

In terms of choice, TIE/x1 is effectively four titles (two get meta consideration, Accuracy Corrector and Advanced Targeting Computer) and that number expands whenever they release a new systems upgrade.

The 'Twin Ion Engine Mk. II' upgrade being monstrously overpriced, to the point I really don't think we'll see it that often. Oh, sure, it's point cost is very reasonable looked at in a vacuum...but very nearly anything that can take it would be VASTLY better served with a hull upgrade or stealth device sitting in that 'slot'. IE., the opportunity cost of this item...taking this means you don't take something else...becomes rather staggering.

Your opinion, and one I (and by the looks of it a lot of the forum) strongly disagree with. TIE upgrade is a mere one point and gives the TIE defender a full six extra greens, allowing it to safely use the PTL action economy it desperately needed. Even on the TIE fighter (for Night Beast) it's worth consideration: it makes PTL a possibility on the TIE advanceds that need it, like Maarek.

I like the idea of where you're headed with this (at least where I think you're headed). What about seperate Royal Guard Upgrade cards for each type of ship?

i.e. the RG Defender would get 'x'; The RG Bomber would get 'y'; The RG Phantom would get 'z'. Where 'x', 'y', and 'z' were different perks that were different from the RG Interceptors. I love the idea of different RG ships flying around but I feel that giving them all a 2nd mod slot may not be the way to go for the reasons listed above. I'm sure there are some thematic elements that could be used to explain how a RG ship has what is has (personally I'd love to see what happens when/if a Defender had a turret upgrade slot, or a bomber had an astromech slot, and on and on and on.

I like the idea of where you're headed with this (at least where I think you're headed). What about seperate Royal Guard Upgrade cards for each type of ship?

i.e. the RG Defender would get 'x'; The RG Bomber would get 'y'; The RG Phantom would get 'z'. Where 'x', 'y', and 'z' were different perks that were different from the RG Interceptors. I love the idea of different RG ships flying around but I feel that giving them all a 2nd mod slot may not be the way to go for the reasons listed above. I'm sure there are some thematic elements that could be used to explain how a RG ship has what is has (personally I'd love to see what happens when/if a Defender had a turret upgrade slot, or a bomber had an astromech slot, and on and on and on.

That's actually not a bad idea, either, really. Only really addresses one of the points - I seriously think we are going to see very few Mk II engines in major-event-winning-lists, but...it's an interesting idea.

Addresses the theme concern, and the TIE Advanced title competition concern, certainly. Not, I think, the Mk II (opportunity) cost concern, though.

sorry guys, but you will never replace the Tie/x1 on the advance

its ffg's way of saying "we ****** up bad. The advance should have been 17-18 points base and have come with a system slot"

it's not auto-include because FFG loves releasing overpowered crap, but because it has to release overpowered crap to fix what was, beyond the faintest shadow of a doubt, the worst ship in the game

All imps royal? No.

Some? Maybe. What about a limitation along the line of "Ties only", which still includes almost all imps, but not the large ones?

Still, I don't think we will see anything like that, and I'm ok with it. Too much customization can also bring a faction down. Learn to use what you have and complain about the stuff that really sucks (glad Tie Adv isn't one anymore - boy, all those 20+ page threads we lived through with that one :-) but finally we got the much needed buff, and a lot more than what we asked for)

And thematically, the idea is completely sound.

Also not sure I agree here. For the TIE interceptor, sure: Royal Guard TIE lets you upgrade them so that someone other than a suicidal TIE jockey would be willing to get it. As TIE interceptor only, it represents a heavier TIE interceptor: the list of mods you'd put on a TIE interceptor is quite short: Hull, Shield, Stealth and Autothrusters. They all constitute upgrades rather than customisation.

But if you gave it to every Imperial ship then you're essentially allowing every Imperial over PS4 to install two modifications across the full modification catalogue. The Imperials suddenly have a huge ability to customise their ships. It'd make the Imperials, who prize uniformity, better for customisation and personalisation than the Rebels and Scum.

If I were to give the ability to install two mods to a whole faction, the last one I'd pick is the Empire if I was going for thematics.

Thematically, I think it's really dumb that the absolute best of the best, most important pilots would fly modified Interceptors in the first place.

When ships like the Defender exist, why wouldn't you put these vitally important pilots. performing your single most vitally important task in the Empire, in your most powerful and expensive ship?

Royal guard phantoms

No

Heh, one of my friends did paint his Phantoms that way.

All imps royal? No.

Some? Maybe. What about a limitation along the line of "Ties only", which still includes almost all imps, but not the large ones?

Actually, that's a good enough suggestion I'll modify the OP for it.

I mean, after all, it's not much of a "guard" actually flying the heavy ships, is it?

I will have to disagree simply because of the AT+EU combo, but i do wish something could be done to give the Empire a specific upgrade like the Astro and Illicit upgrades, and i have always found the fact that the shuttle is the only ship in the game with no EPT pilots or that besides maybe 3 or 4 named Interceptor pilots which are good the rest just plain suck.

Thematically, I think it's really dumb that the absolute best of the best, most important pilots would fly modified Interceptors in the first place.

When ships like the Defender exist, why wouldn't you put these vitally important pilots. performing your single most vitally important task in the Empire, in your most powerful and expensive ship?

Defenders were very rare ships produced during an era of insurrection inside the Imperial ranks. Even if you discount the whole Zaarin mutiny, there weren't enough TIE Defenders produced to warrant putting even a handful on perpetual escort duty without taking a sizable percentage away from combat action where they were needed most.

Include the Zaarin fluff, and the Defender was also in the hands of a traitor, the Imperial Guard had traitors in its midst, and the production facilities for both the Avenger and Defender had been destroyed. Once pirates managed to capture Defenders and use them against the Empire, all non-loyalist Imperial Defenders were eradicated and ones in loyalist hands were taken out of combat to keep the tech safe with the Empire.

Either way you hack it, these ships were too valuable to waste keeping pace with a shuttle that probably had multiple Star Destroyers in system with it to keep the very foundation of the Empire safe. And any Sith Lord who knew it was a poor idea to let an apprentice have access to you while you're sleeping probably was paranoid enough to want escorts that could respond to an attack if need be, but not be too powerful as to be able to betray and destroy his shuttle with little chance of being killed themselves.

On the OP, I'd say that the new TIE/fo might get a little out of control if they could take 2 mods. You could give Epsilon Leader Experimental Interface and Shield Upgrade and you'd have a ship similar to Darth Vader for 3 points cheaper.