while the two defensive retrofits can be nifty, I highly advise against anyone just throwing Long John Silver out there to the wolves

ECM and projectors will shrlop some hits, but defensive tokens by their nature (exhaust, then discard if exhausted) will crumble against multiple attacks.

That, and if Intel Officer picks up favor (and against the big boys with only one brace token...oh boy) the combo's going to be rendered moot pretty quickly

It's still 15 shields you have to go through with that combo before you reach the hull, plus 8 hull to churn through, not counting a nasty repair capability.

I think people talk about ECM + Advanced Projectors because it's the only combo we know we can do with the two slots. I can't wait for "Redundant..." upgrade which seems to automatically regenerate shields. Like you said, ECM is nifty and all but really works well when you expect to take one/two volleys per turn. As soon as you're going for more than that its value really loses out. So I can definitely see the MC80 with Advanced Projectors (ECM is less needed when you have 2 redirects) and that Redundant ... upgrade to automatically regenerate shields. If it's one per turn, it's interesting, if it's 2 per turns it's **** awesome coupled with the Engineering Command.

Up until this point, I never felt like there was a ship that really wanted Nav Team over Engine Techs, but the MC-80 might be it. Given Nav tokens from Garm or the Tantive IV, this thing will turn really well. The weakness of the VSD, hasn't been the speed 2 limitation, but the fact that it has only 1 point of yaw. It is so easy to get around because it turns like a pig, not because it can't go speed 3.

The ISD at speed 3 will be easy to flank. All the extra speed does is let it close quickly, it still needs to keep its front pointed at the enemy for maximum firepower. I highly doubt that we will see ISDs cruising around the table at speed 3 the same way we see whales and Glads. Given the choice between speed 3 and the defensive team, I will take the flexibility of the defensive team every time.

@Corellian : Redemption and Engineering Team add points when you resolve the order. So if you use a token, you'll get 2, +1 for Redemption, +1 for Engineering Team

The Command variant does have one offensive retrofit and one defensive It's only the Assault variant that has 2 defensive retrofits and it highly hints at throwing it out there and take a beating while dishing out one.

Due to the lack of Gunnery Team and Speed 2, I'm really not sure it's going to be the best flanker. Rather, it really wants to be thrown in the middle of the fray, while being repaired like a maniac. It's really meant for the "Ackbar Slash" and some nasty opening shots while it gets there.

It's also going to be a massive deterrent for speed 3 ISDs because once they get into blue range, with Ackbar now there are 9 dice to the face one you factor in enhanced armaments. This is going to be absolutely nasty.

This ship wants Advanced Gunnery more than my Paragon with EH and Sensor Team...

Also, still confused.

When I resolve an engineering command, that's only when I use it to make engineering points right? And I would get +2 points from both Redemption and Engineering Team, right? So a Token is still worth just 2 engineering points from the base 4 overall right? (4/2=2, yay math).

I'm glad it costs 114, if it was 94 points then you would only see this ship ever.

It also doesn't price out the assault frigates which is nice.

But I am torn! It wants to be at range 3, yet it also wants to be able to fire from both sides! And it doesn't/can't get an evade token!

I don't know how to fly this ship. I think I will stick to Assault Frigates for now.

Breaking news : I just had confirmation from my Bothan Spy that the Assault variant is indeed 114 points.

Hah most of us here already came to terms with the 94 points! Your spies sure love controversy!

I'd like to think that MOST of us were more sensible than that....as demonstrated several times, the maths simply didnt work for 94.

@Corellian : Redemption and Engineering Team add points when you resolve the order. So if you use a token, you'll get 2, +1 for Redemption, +1 for Engineering Team

The Command variant does have one offensive retrofit and one defensive It's only the Assault variant that has 2 defensive retrofits and it highly hints at throwing it out there and take a beating while dishing out one.

Due to the lack of Gunnery Team and Speed 2, I'm really not sure it's going to be the best flanker. Rather, it really wants to be thrown in the middle of the fray, while being repaired like a maniac. It's really meant for the "Ackbar Slash" and some nasty opening shots while it gets there.

It's also going to be a massive deterrent for speed 3 ISDs because once they get into blue range, with Ackbar now there are 9 dice to the face one you factor in enhanced armaments. This is going to be absolutely nasty.

This ship wants Advanced Gunnery more than my Paragon with EH and Sensor Team...

Also, still confused.

When I resolve an engineering command, that's only when I use it to make engineering points right? And I would get +2 points from both Redemption and Engineering Team, right? So a Token is still worth just 2 engineering points from the base 4 overall right? (4/2=2, yay math).

I'm glad it costs 114, if it was 94 points then you would only see this ship ever.

It also doesn't price out the assault frigates which is nice.

But I am torn! It wants to be at range 3, yet it also wants to be able to fire from both sides! And it doesn't/can't get an evade token!

I don't know how to fly this ship. I think I will stick to Assault Frigates for now.

If you do dial plus token you get a total of 8 points!!

It also doesn't price out the assault frigates which is nice.

But I am torn! It wants to be at range 3, yet it also wants to be able to fire from both sides! And it doesn't/can't get an evade token!

I don't know how to fly this ship. I think I will stick to Assault Frigates for now.

I'm not sure about firing out of both sides (unless that's the only way to trigger akbar...in which case akbar is garbage)

just give me a ship, some squadrons, and teach me how to broadside

When I resolve an engineering command, that's only when I use it to make engineering points right? And I would get +2 points from both Redemption and Engineering Team, right? So a Token is still worth just 2 engineering points from the base 4 overall right? (4/2=2, yay math).

Using the dial or the token counts as resolving the Engineering command. So, with Redemption and Engineering Team you get - 4 points with a token, 6 points with a dial, or 8 points with both!

It also doesn't price out the assault frigates which is nice.

But I am torn! It wants to be at range 3, yet it also wants to be able to fire from both sides! And it doesn't/can't get an evade token!

I don't know how to fly this ship. I think I will stick to Assault Frigates for now.

I'm not sure about firing out of both sides (unless that's the only way to trigger akbar...in which case akbar is garbage)

just give me a ship, some squadrons, and teach me how to broadside

Without Gunnery Team, just broadsiding with the MC80 won't be as efficient. It's going to be worth it on an AFMK2 with Gunnery Team and EA, but on a MC80 you're effectively going to half the firepower by 2.

When I resolve an engineering command, that's only when I use it to make engineering points right? And I would get +2 points from both Redemption and Engineering Team, right? So a Token is still worth just 2 engineering points from the base 4 overall right? (4/2=2, yay math).

Using the dial or the token counts as resolving the Engineering command. So, with Redemption and Engineering Team you get - 4 points with a token, 6 points with a dial, or 8 points with both!

Yup yup okay, that's how I thought I understood them. The token itself is still worth 2, and not boosted up to three or anything.

Was just making sure that 4 shields was the max.

Just thought of something for the MC80 Assault !

MC80 Assault (114)

Advanced Projectors (6)

ECM (7) - Until we have more info about the other Defensive Retrofits

Enhanced Armaments (10)

Leading Shots (4)

Ackbar (~35)

7 red dice from both broadsides, and as soon as you get in medium range, you can reroll them twice (2 blue dice per side). That'll mitigate the fail red dice roll with blanks

Breaking news : I just had confirmation from my Bothan Spy that the Assault variant is indeed 114 points.

Wonder why the 1 did not show up. . . Hmmmm

If you're planning to kite rather than slash, Slaved Turrets are probably going to be a better choice (cheaper) than Enhanced Armaments. Though frankly, with 6 red dice, I'd rather spend those points on Heavy Turbolasers, XI-7s or some other defense-mitigating upgrade.

Sped 2 is going to be bad on a ship that is 114 points.

You can slash with it either. Once you start to slash an ISD will be able to angle in and get your rear. Once a ship has your rear you are done.

A GSD can be vertical to the MC80's rear and the MC80 will never see it. So a double arc is highly possible.

No, a slash sounds to high risk with little to no reward for the cost.

When I resolve an engineering command, that's only when I use it to make engineering points right? And I would get +2 points from both Redemption and Engineering Team, right? So a Token is still worth just 2 engineering points from the base 4 overall right? (4/2=2, yay math).

Using the dial or the token counts as resolving the Engineering command. So, with Redemption and Engineering Team you get - 4 points with a token, 6 points with a dial, or 8 points with both!

Yup yup okay, that's how I thought I understood them. The token itself is still worth 2, and not boosted up to three or anything.

Was just making sure that 4 shields was the max.

I know everyone wants Enhanced Arms on this thing, but I think XI-7 is way better. With Enhanced Arms at top Damage you do 18 that can be cut in half and shifted, or with XI7, you could do 16 top damage, or 15 plus one blue accuracy and cancel the defend's brace and do 13 damage to one hull zone. (given the statistical probability of this happening is 3,720 to 1.)

I know everyone wants Enhanced Arms on this thing, but I think XI-7 is way better. With Enhanced Arms at top Damage you do 18 that can be cut in half and shifted, or with XI7, you could do 16 top damage, or 15 plus one blue accuracy and cancel the defend's brace and do 13 damage to one hull zone. (given the statistical probability of this happening is 3,720 to 1.)

Heavy Turbolasers are going to be very interesting on something that can throw 6 to 7 damage per turn. It's okay if he redirects it, but negating the Brace token is much more valuable for such high burst damage. Which is why when I play an AFMK2 with Paragon I always go for the Sensor Team because I'd rather ensure 5 total damage than 3.

Breaking news : I just had confirmation from my Bothan Spy that the Assault variant is indeed 114 points.

The Assault Cruiser is not really worth it then. . .

Wonder why the 1 did not show up. . . Hmmmm

May I inquire as to how you thought that 94 pts, or just costing less then the Command, was even a possibility?

the statistical probability of this happening is 3,720 to 1.)

Oh dear

Im thinking that this is gonna be killed by ramming an awful lot. It's got great shielding, but that can get wittled away eventually, especially if you use h9 or xi7 turbolasers and Intel officers. I'm not really sure how to build around if either, its not quite as straightforward as the assault frigate is to me, like it wants upgrades but you don't want to overfeed it. There's probably a perfect spot around 130 in cost, any more and it could be detrimental to activation count and ramming suicide tactics. Just got to get in front of one with a glad and its not gonna do much, can't get past it with speed 2, and I'd gladly take the ram damage from an engine tech if it means your at 75% health

Yea. Dealing max 16 damage and not caring about the Accuracy dice and making that Brace only work on 1 of those dice. . .

If only we had gunnery team access though that would be crazy. . .

Well, MC80 supported by the Whale gunline will be a thing.

The MC30 is speed 4 which having it stay with this will be a pain. . .

The MC30 is speed 4 which having it stay with this will be a pain. . .

possibly, but if akbar works as advertised (2 dice if only shooting out of sides, distance 1-5) then the scout shrimp will still be flinging 4 red dice from its sides (and benefiting quite well from double evade) so its not all bad

Breaking news : I just had confirmation from my Bothan Spy that the Assault variant is indeed 114 points.

The Assault Cruiser is not really worth it then. . .

Wonder why the 1 did not show up. . . Hmmmm

May I inquire as to how you thought that 94 pts, or just costing less then the Command, was even a possibility?

The MC80's rear is 77.5mm wide. That is wider then the length of the small ship base. In fact that is wider than distance 1. Sure at speed 2 it can thread through obstacles but it can't use its speed to get away so it can repair and come back in.

This thing has to stay in range and fight it out.

Oh and as for why I think it was worth FAR less than 114 points.

The ISD has 1 more dice overall (9 out of town 9 total dice is red though), 1 most speed (so that should be worth far more than 8 points), has 3 less shields, 1 more squadron value.

Tell me how the ISD is only worth 6 more points?

I know everyone wants Enhanced Arms on this thing, but I think XI-7 is way better. With Enhanced Arms at top Damage you do 18 that can be cut in half and shifted, or with XI7, you could do 16 top damage, or 15 plus one blue accuracy and cancel the defend's brace and do 13 damage to one hull zone. (given the statistical probability of this happening is 3,720 to 1.)

I counter that Heavy Turbolasers are better for it.

All three Star Destroyers have a single Brace token, while Vicky and Impy each have two Redirect tokens. Assuming (I know, I know, something about Donkeys and you and me) that you get a single Precision die result, then you've already effectively neutered the Brace token, while the Redirect takes multiple Precisions or other effects to neutralize.

I would therefore submit for your consideration, that versus a Star Destroyer it's better to take the X17's ability to self neuter the Redirect and get through shields quicker, than it is to take the Hvy Turbolaser and its ability to neuter the Brace that can already be pretty easily neutered by a Precision result.

The MC30 is speed 4 which having it stay with this will be a pain. . .

possibly, but if akbar works as advertised (2 dice if only shooting out of sides, distance 1-5) then the scout shrimp will still be flinging 4 red dice from its sides (and benefiting quite well from double evade) so its not all bad