1) Accurate: You get +10/+20 for aiming and +10 for the accurate quality AND you get an extra D10 of damage for every 2 degrees of success?

2) Can you really aim and semi-auto/autofire? What if you have ambidexterity, two weapon wielder and gunslinger...can you aim for a full round (+20) and autofire with both weapons the next round?

3) Is there anything that will let you fire into a crowd with an automatic weapon and hit more than one target? Say a bunch of zombies (**** those nurgling zombies) are coming at you and you have an autogun...can you spray the area and hit more than one target?

Thanks,

Val

Valzin said:

You got a couple of different question wrapped up here, trying to unravel;

Aim is either a half action or full round action for a 10 or 20% bonus, I see no reason to say you cant aim for multiple rounds but i would rule if the target is completely obscured at any point all the accured bonus is lost/

Accurate special quality gives a 10% bonus if you aim in addition to the aim bonus.

Neither aim nor accurate give you extra damage under any circumstance.

Semi-auto and full-auto are both full round action but if you aim the round before you could get aim bonus.

To hit multiple targets you need a weapon with the Blast quality or a weapon capable of the overwatch action. To hit the same target multiple times you need auto fire capabitity or the scatter quality.

Hope this helps.

Dynodragon said:

Errata give accurate extra damage if you aim and then get multiple successes.

I just reread overwatch and fullauto and saw that for every 2 degrees of success I get an extra hit that I can designate to either the original target or any other target within 2 meters so that answered that question.

If I were an assassin and wanted to hit someone in the left eye the extra aiming time would be useful, but otherwise one round is quite enough.

Val

**** that errata! Missed the little blighter.

You are correct

Well, that makes my decision between an armageddon and a hunting rifle that much easier.

But on that note, would changing sights - red dot to telescopic for example - be a full action?

Rashid,

Looking at the rulebook with it stating that a weapon can only have 1 sight (even though IRL you could have both attached) (one is over the barrel, most laser sights I have seen are just under the barrel) I would tell my players that both could be attached, but only one or the other could be used.and has to be declared before rolls are made. It would just be a matter of refocusing your eyes from distance to into the reticule of the telescopic sight.

Now I have to convince my GM of that AND get him to allow me to create a marksmans pistol that I can put a telescopic sight on. Cause a carnodon at extreme range would be just, well...really friggin' amusing!

I think you've got everything sussed here. I don't have my rulebook with me (I hardly ever do since I mostly post from work), but just to throw a spanner in the works, am I right in thinking that I read somewhere aiming does not help when you fire on full auto? Could be wrong, but just in case.

And I think the errata states that you get an extra hit from a full-auto or semi-auto weapon for every degree of success, not every two degrees. So if you were a good enough shots, I think you could hit with all ten bullets from an autogun's full-auto fire. And I'm fairly sure that there are rules for spreading your shots out over more than one target (strafing, if you will).

Full-auto is an extra hit per degree, semi-auto for every two degrees. The only thing the errata addresses with regards to full and semi-auto fire is when it's combined with a weapon that has the Scatter property.

Valzin said:

Which I find really strange since you would need some type of telescopic site to even see that red dot at 50M...

Headhanger said:

Possible on full auto. However since full and semi-auto fire is a full action, you would only be firing every other round as the previous one would have to be the full action aim.

Yeah, but just imagine a gunslinger with twin best quality Hecuters and red dots on each....say 43 base BS...+10 best, +10 red dot, +20 full aim, +20 full auto

= 103 BS

93 83 73 63 53 43 X 2

that is going to be either 12 hits on a bunch of bunched up people or 12 hits on one person...something is falling down dead

I can just see the GMs face....

GM: "Ok guys, you come around the corner and about 20 meters away you see 12 cultists running toward you. Roll initiative"

gunslinger: " I roll a 9 and that gives me an 18 initiative"

GM: Ok, you go first.

gunslinger: I aim for a full round

GM: second round, They are 2 meters away now

gunslinger: I kill all of them with headshots

ROFL

Valzin said:

I don't have the Hecuter's stats in front of me right now, but remember that you can only hit with full/semi auto a maximum amount of times equal to the full-auto statistic. So if a custom autopistol had S/3/5 then you could only hit up to five targets per full-auto burst.

But then, if a weapon had something like -/-/12 (some insane heavy weapon I guess, what does a heavy stubber have?) then yeah, you could hit a lot of targets on one round.

Valzin said:

Minor point, but good or best qualities don't add a bonus to accuracy for firearms. That's only close combat weapons.

Also note, as written, the bonus damage for aimed accurate weapons only apply to basic weapon, so no Fate Bringer sniping.

I could have sworn that the rule is that aiming only works on single fire, not semi or full auto.

Same with the red-dot: I though that it only helped with single shots.

Am I wrong?

Necrozius said:

I was also under this impression.

While allowing the players all the success they deserve, part of the attraction of Dark Heresy for me is not having a team of super heroes who destroy everything in sight as soon as they hit the dirt. They're not Space Marines after all.

Necrozius said:

Indeed, red dot is single shot only and craftsmanship does appear to be for melee weapons only, ranged get reliable.

Likewise you can't call shots on semi or full auto.

Necrozius said:

Looking through the rules, you are correct. You can only use Aim with a single shot not semi or full auto.

Don't forget that the Hecutor stats also changed in the errata. It is no longer penetrating.

sigh...crush my very amusing dreams....ok...best quality only gives reliable, red dot is only on single shot, Called shot is only for single shots also. but **** that was amusing...which is why I wouldn't actually do it in a game. It would have been broken as hell.

half action is +10 to your next attack, full action (aim) is +20 to your next attack either melee or aimed.

hecuter is s/3/6 pen 0 and it says if you are armed with two weapons you can autofire both of them by the last sentence in the full auto burst.

I can see this as being that first shot is well aimed, the rest are going to move with the action of the weapon.

New question based on this information...if you have the dual shot talent, can you called shot that? Or would one hit where you are aiming it and the second hit someplace else?

I am going to ask lots of questions on here so I can find the broken things and avoid them while playing. I avoid the broken classes like the plague. It's just not as fun for anyone if you don't have a fight on your hand.

sigh...crush my very amusing dreams....ok...best quality only gives reliable, red dot is only on single shot, Called shot is only for single shots also. but **** that was amusing...which is why I wouldn't actually do it in a game. It would have been broken as hell.

half action is +10 to your next attack, full action (aim) is +20 to your next attack either melee or aimed.

hecuter is s/3/6 pen 0 and it says if you are armed with two weapons you can autofire both of them by the last sentence in the full auto burst.

I can see this as being that first shot is well aimed, the rest are going to move with the action of the weapon.

New question based on this information...if you have the dual shot talent, can you called shot that? Or would one hit where you are aiming it and the second hit someplace else?

I am going to ask lots of questions on here so I can find the broken things and avoid them while playing. I avoid the broken classes like the plague. It's just not as fun for anyone if you don't have a fight on your hand.

Valzin said:

Actually, Good quality gives Reliable. Best quality means the gun will never jam on any roll to hit (though, presumably, psychic powers and psychic phenomena, etc, could jam a Best Quality gun, as that's independent of the wielder's to-hit roll).

Valzin said:

Interesting. You only need one laser sight to get the bonus for the roll. But I would say yes but they would have to be aimed at the same location.

Woah. I never thought of that.

Mr. Beardy the guardsman has two stub revolvers (one for each of you*), one is equipped with a red dot lase sight, the other isn't. How do you deal with the bonus to hit?

*Bonus points for whoever gets the reference.

Val Kilmer as Doc Holliday, Tombstone.

"The most classic of all classic westerns"

Oh, and the errate states:
Dual Shot on page 114-115 should have the addition:
“As you are firing both guns as a single attack, you
may take an Aim Action before firing to get a +10
or +20 bonus to the BS Test. A red-dot laser sight
mounted on any one of the weapons will provide its
+10 bonus. You do not suffer from the normal –20
BS penalty for wielding two weapons. If you hit, the
target’s armour gets applied as normal to both hits
individually, but Toughness only counts once against
the combined damage rolls of both hits. A single
successful Dodge Test from the target will avoid both
shots.”

So, with the red-dot on one stub, you would get a +10 to the single BS test to hit with both weapons.

My understanding was this:

You may aim single, semi, or full auto shots.

Semi/Full are full actions, so you have to aim the turn before.

Accurate only works with aiming.

The extra damage only works for single, aimed, accurate shots.

So, you can aim for a turn and get the +40 to hit for aiming and then full auto, and probably hit a bunch of targets or:

You can aim for a turn with an accurate weapon, aim for another half action, then fire at +40, and probably get an extra 2d10 damage on your hit.

So, consequently, that accurate bolter in the IH is now a terrifying thing, what with the possibility of doing 3d10+5 X pen 5 tearing damage...

As for all the dual wielding stuf, magically, none of my players have taken that stuff, so I don't have to deal with it. Our assassin dual wields in melee, but that's a lot easier to figure out.

Valzin said:

Except you can only get a maximum of +/-30 on any action