Hey Folks!

So I just finished playing in a tournament using Latts Razzi as well as Drea Renthal with TLT. Very fun but I had a quick question about how Latts' ability interacts with TLT.

Latts' ability reads:

"When a friendly ship declares an attack, you may spend a target lock you have on the defender to reduce its agility by 1 for that attack."

Twin Laser Turret reads:

"Attack: Perform this attack twice (even against a ship outside your firing arc).

Each time this attack hits, the defender suffers 1 damage. Then cancel all dice results."

My question is does Latts' ability affect both TLT shots?

Thanks in advance for the help folks!

Based on similar rulings regarding Jan Ors/Opportunist and Cluster missiles, I'd say no.

The wording makes it seem like you are performing a single attack twice and anything you do that modifies the attack should effect both times that you execute it but the FAQ tells you to treat Cluster Missiles as two separate attacks against the same target.

That makes sense. I might shoot FFG a quick note to clarify, though based on the cluster missiles ruling, I'm inclined to agree with you.

You are spending the target lock and the TLT has to attack the same target twice I believe, so unless you have a way of requiring a second instant target lock before the second TLT attack I'd say it's a moot point. The TLT clearly reads perform this attack twice ie two separate times, therefore the target lock spent has to go on the first three dice.

However, what you are missing is the following KEY information. " When a friendly ship declares an attack" Since you only declare the attack once - since you must shoot both time at the same target, it works for both shots with the TLT.

However, if you are using the Y Wing with the title, shooting with the primary and then secondary requires two different target locks.

However, what you are missing is the following KEY information. " When a friendly ship declares an attack" Since you only declare the attack once - since you must shoot both time at the same target, it works for both shots with the TLT.

However, if you are using the Y Wing with the title, shooting with the primary and then secondary requires two different target locks.

I think in the eyes of the rules it is only intended to be for one attack, we'll have to wait for the FAQ I guess but I expect the TLT FAQ to say that you treat it as two separate attacks that must be declared against the same target.

However, what you are missing is the following KEY information. " When a friendly ship declares an attack" Since you only declare the attack once - since you must shoot both time at the same target, it works for both shots with the TLT.

However, if you are using the Y Wing with the title, shooting with the primary and then secondary requires two different target locks.

I think in the eyes of the rules it is only intended to be for one attack, we'll have to wait for the FAQ I guess but I expect the TLT FAQ to say that you treat it as two separate attacks that must be declared against the same target.

I'm not so sure.

The Declare Target step includes measuring range and arc, choosing the weapon, and paying any costs associated with firing it.

With TLT (and clusters) those steps are redundant for the second attack as you're locked into your choice, and the parameters haven't changed - while it's not explicitly stated in the rules in those terms, you've made a de-facto skip of step 1 for the second attack.

Hey Folks!

So I just finished playing in a tournament using Latts Razzi as well as Drea Renthal with TLT. Very fun but I had a quick question about how Latts' ability interacts with TLT.

Latts' ability reads:

"When a friendly ship declares an attack, you may spend a target lock you have on the defender to reduce its agility by 1 for that attack."

Twin Laser Turret reads:

"Attack: Perform this attack twice (even against a ship outside your firing arc).

Each time this attack hits, the defender suffers 1 damage. Then cancel all dice results."

My question is does Latts' ability affect both TLT shots?

Thanks in advance for the help folks!

I'm sure this attack works with the bonus for both shoots.

Please consider it to work this way:

1. Skill is saying "When a friendly ship declares an attack, you may spend a target lock you have on the defender to reduce its agility by 1 for that attack."

2. The wargear is saying "Attack: Perform this attack twice (even against a ship outside your firing arc). Each time this attack hits, the defender suffers 1 damage. Then cancel all dice results."

It's marked on the card, the "Attack" word is bolded as this is a single attack from this weapon - a single attack that makes weapon (TLT) shoot twice, but in terms of rules --> its still one attack. There is even a colon to spit it up and keep up a meeting of the sentence. I know it's very powerful, but it simply works this way.

cheers, I hope I helped.

The wargear upgrade card features the bolded Attack: header to define it as a secondary weapon. That's all it does.

The Cluster missiles upgrade card features near identical wording and the FAQ has defined this as two separate attacks against the same target. So if there's any one-shot or once-per-round adjustments to an attack, they will be to only one of the two attacks.

Hey Folks!

Just sent a quick note to FFG as there doesn't appear to be a consensus. I will post the response as soon as it arrives

Just because there is not a consensus doesn't mean that the answer isn't obvious without a clarification from the rules department.

This is resolves with two simple questions:

1) For how many attacks does Razzi's ability have an effect? One. The text says "that attack," which is singular.

2) How many attacks does a ship firing a TLT make? Two. The text says "perform this attack twice."

Unless there is something outside of the cards' text that should be considered, I don't see any room for reasonable disagreement here.

If we look this post: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/181442-twin-laser-turret-and-r3-a2stressbot/?hl=r3a2, and R3A2 affect only one time because there is one "Declare Target” step, Latts Razzi has to work in the same way.

Then I don't know how to interpretate the last part of the sentence: "for that attack". "That attack" contains all the steps and we can apply to the two attacks of TLT? o "That attack" only apply in the first one? (because the first has "Declare target" step and the second doesn't).

From the devs:

Hello Brendan,

In response to your rules question:

Rules Question:

Hi! If possible, I'd like to clear up how the pilot ability of the YV-666 pilot, Latts Razzi, interacts with Twin Laser Turret. Latts' ability reads: "When a friendly ship declares an attack, you may spend a target lock you have on the defender to reduce its agility by 1 for that attack." Twin Laser Turret reads: "Attack: Perform this attack twice (even against a ship outside your firing arc). Each time this attack hits, the defender suffers 1 damage. Then cancel all dice results." My question is does Latts' ability affect both TLT shots? Thank you in advance for your help! Brendan

Twin Laser Turret is treated as two separate attacks against the same target. When the first attack is declared, you can use Latts’ ability to decrease the agility of the defender by 1 for the first attack. This effect does not apply to the second attack and cannot be used during the second attack as the target of the attack is only declared once.

Thanks for playing,

Frank Brooks

Game Developer

Fantasy Flight Games

Come on. Some time people get out of hand shooting off wuestions to FFG.

Ask him if Veteran Instincts increases a ships pilot skill by 2 or 3.

This was a valid question. Unlike Cluster Missiles, you do not have to spend a target lock which you would only have on a single target. TLT requires nothign other than proper range to fire. Clarifying that TLT is 2 attacks on a single target was necessary along with the ability of Latts.

From the devs:

Hello Brendan,

In response to your rules question:

Rules Question:

Hi! If possible, I'd like to clear up how the pilot ability of the YV-666 pilot, Latts Razzi, interacts with Twin Laser Turret. Latts' ability reads: "When a friendly ship declares an attack, you may spend a target lock you have on the defender to reduce its agility by 1 for that attack." Twin Laser Turret reads: "Attack: Perform this attack twice (even against a ship outside your firing arc). Each time this attack hits, the defender suffers 1 damage. Then cancel all dice results." My question is does Latts' ability affect both TLT shots? Thank you in advance for your help! Brendan

Twin Laser Turret is treated as two separate attacks against the same target. When the first attack is declared, you can use Latts’ ability to decrease the agility of the defender by 1 for the first attack. This effect does not apply to the second attack and cannot be used during the second attack as the target of the attack is only declared once.

Thanks for playing,

Frank Brooks

Game Developer

Fantasy Flight Games

Excuse me? That made no sense. As Frank just said, the target is declared ONLY ONCE. So, why wouldn't it work for both shots? "When a friendly ship declares an attack..." That statement alone should mean it works for both shots.....

See the card text:

"[F]or that attack."

Razzi's ability is limited to one attack. A TLT makes two attacks.

From the devs:

Hello Brendan,

In response to your rules question:

Rules Question:

Hi! If possible, I'd like to clear up how the pilot ability of the YV-666 pilot, Latts Razzi, interacts with Twin Laser Turret. Latts' ability reads: "When a friendly ship declares an attack, you may spend a target lock you have on the defender to reduce its agility by 1 for that attack." Twin Laser Turret reads: "Attack: Perform this attack twice (even against a ship outside your firing arc). Each time this attack hits, the defender suffers 1 damage. Then cancel all dice results." My question is does Latts' ability affect both TLT shots? Thank you in advance for your help! Brendan

Twin Laser Turret is treated as two separate attacks against the same target. When the first attack is declared, you can use Latts’ ability to decrease the agility of the defender by 1 for the first attack. This effect does not apply to the second attack and cannot be used during the second attack as the target of the attack is only declared once.

Thanks for playing,

Frank Brooks

Game Developer

Fantasy Flight Games

Excuse me? That made no sense. As Frank just said, the target is declared ONLY ONCE. So, why wouldn't it work for both shots? "When a friendly ship declares an attack..." That statement alone should mean it works for both shots.....

This was the source of my initial confusion as well. At least the ruling is clear and we should know how to play the ability moving forward.

From the devs:

Hello Brendan,

In response to your rules question:

Rules Question:

Hi! If possible, I'd like to clear up how the pilot ability of the YV-666 pilot, Latts Razzi, interacts with Twin Laser Turret. Latts' ability reads: "When a friendly ship declares an attack, you may spend a target lock you have on the defender to reduce its agility by 1 for that attack." Twin Laser Turret reads: "Attack: Perform this attack twice (even against a ship outside your firing arc). Each time this attack hits, the defender suffers 1 damage. Then cancel all dice results." My question is does Latts' ability affect both TLT shots? Thank you in advance for your help! Brendan

Twin Laser Turret is treated as two separate attacks against the same target. When the first attack is declared, you can use Latts’ ability to decrease the agility of the defender by 1 for the first attack. This effect does not apply to the second attack and cannot be used during the second attack as the target of the attack is only declared once.

Thanks for playing,

Frank Brooks

Game Developer

Fantasy Flight Games

Excuse me? That made no sense. As Frank just said, the target is declared ONLY ONCE. So, why wouldn't it work for both shots? "When a friendly ship declares an attack..." That statement alone should mean it works for both shots.....

Think of it this way:

"When a friendly ship declares an attack, you may spend a target lock you have on the defender..." This is the cost of activating the ability, and the specific timing window where it triggers.

"...to reduce its agility by 1 for that attack." This is the actual effect, and the duration of that effect.

TLT's first attack goes through all the normal steps of an attack, which allows Latts' ability to trigger during the Declare Target step. The second attack is treated as an entirely separate attack, and it skips the Declare Target step. Since it's a separate attack, Latts' ability is no longer active if it was triggered for the first attack. Since it has no Declare Target step, there's no opportunity for Latts to trigger her ability if she still has a target lock on the defender. That's why her ability can only apply to TLT's first attack.

Edit: To put it another way, TLT provides a normal first attack, followed by an "undeclared" second attack.

From the devs:

Hello Brendan,

In response to your rules question:

Rules Question:

Hi! If possible, I'd like to clear up how the pilot ability of the YV-666 pilot, Latts Razzi, interacts with Twin Laser Turret. Latts' ability reads: "When a friendly ship declares an attack, you may spend a target lock you have on the defender to reduce its agility by 1 for that attack." Twin Laser Turret reads: "Attack: Perform this attack twice (even against a ship outside your firing arc). Each time this attack hits, the defender suffers 1 damage. Then cancel all dice results." My question is does Latts' ability affect both TLT shots? Thank you in advance for your help! Brendan

Twin Laser Turret is treated as two separate attacks against the same target. When the first attack is declared, you can use Latts’ ability to decrease the agility of the defender by 1 for the first attack. This effect does not apply to the second attack and cannot be used during the second attack as the target of the attack is only declared once.

Thanks for playing,

Frank Brooks

Game Developer

Fantasy Flight Games

Thanks for sharing !!

From the devs:

Hello Brendan,

In response to your rules question:

Rules Question:

Hi! If possible, I'd like to clear up how the pilot ability of the YV-666 pilot, Latts Razzi, interacts with Twin Laser Turret. Latts' ability reads: "When a friendly ship declares an attack, you may spend a target lock you have on the defender to reduce its agility by 1 for that attack." Twin Laser Turret reads: "Attack: Perform this attack twice (even against a ship outside your firing arc). Each time this attack hits, the defender suffers 1 damage. Then cancel all dice results." My question is does Latts' ability affect both TLT shots? Thank you in advance for your help! Brendan

Twin Laser Turret is treated as two separate attacks against the same target. When the first attack is declared, you can use Latts’ ability to decrease the agility of the defender by 1 for the first attack. This effect does not apply to the second attack and cannot be used during the second attack as the target of the attack is only declared once.

Thanks for playing,

Frank Brooks

Game Developer

Fantasy Flight Games

Excuse me? That made no sense. As Frank just said, the target is declared ONLY ONCE. So, why wouldn't it work for both shots? "When a friendly ship declares an attack..." That statement alone should mean it works for both shots.....

Think of it this way:

"When a friendly ship declares an attack, you may spend a target lock you have on the defender..." This is the cost of activating the ability, and the specific timing window where it triggers.

"...to reduce its agility by 1 for that attack." This is the actual effect, and the duration of that effect.

TLT's first attack goes through all the normal steps of an attack, which allows Latts' ability to trigger during the Declare Target step. The second attack is treated as an entirely separate attack, and it skips the Declare Target step. Since it's a separate attack, Latts' ability is no longer active if it was triggered for the first attack. Since it has no Declare Target step, there's no opportunity for Latts to trigger her ability if she still has a target lock on the defender. That's why her ability can only apply to TLT's first attack.

Edit: To put it another way, TLT provides a normal first attack, followed by an "undeclared" second attack.

Then why doesn't Cluster Missiles require a target lock to shoot a second time? You can't have it one way for one upgrade and another way for another. By your own reasoning here, and the email reply, spending the target lock for shot 1, you must spend a target lock for shot 2 to get the same effect.

Because Cluster Missiles specifically say that spending the single target lock results in attacking twice?

Then why doesn't Cluster Missiles require a target lock to shoot a second time? You can't have it one way for one upgrade and another way for another. By your own reasoning here, and the email reply, spending the target lock for shot 1, you must spend a target lock for shot 2 to get the same effect.

Because, under the new attack framework, the attacker pays costs like the target lock during the Declare Target step. Since that step is skipped for the second attack of Cluster Missiles, the cost isn't paid again.

Under the old attacking framework, I agree that none of this made sense. Secondary weapons in general didn't really fit correctly into the old attack rules as written, and Cluster Missiles in particular were a mess. And it's still true that the notion of skipping the Declare Target step for the second attack isn't explicitly printed on the card or in the FAQ. It would be nice to see an entry in the next FAQ update that puts it in writing. But multiple rulings from FFG have established that that's how TLT and CM's double attacks work.

The new FAQ declares it as two separate attacks. Apparently, that also prohibits opportunist from adding an additional die for the second TLT attack, without shedding that gained stress in order to be able to activate it again.