Like I said, philosophically, Republic/Empire and Rebel/Seperatist makes sense. One represents the established government and the rule of Palpatine. The other represents the revolutionaries fighting against that establishment.

But at the end of the day, the PT and Clone Wars still clearly portray the Republic as the good guys and the protagonists.

If you think FFG is really going to put the faction with all the Jedi in it in the same faction as the Empire, you're crazy.

Also, nearly every Clone Wars republic ship looks like it belongs with the Rebels. Clone Y-Wings, clone Z-95s, the ARC-170 looking like the X-Wing's prehistoric ancestor, etc.

Like I said, philosophically, Republic/Empire and Rebel/Seperatist makes sense. One represents the established government and the rule of Palpatine. The other represents the revolutionaries fighting against that establishment.

But at the end of the day, the PT and Clone Wars still clearly portray the Republic as the good guys and the protagonists.

If you think FFG is really going to put the faction with all the Jedi in it in the same faction as the Empire, you're crazy.

Also, nearly every Clone Wars republic ship looks like it belongs with the Rebels. Clone Y-Wings, clone Z-95s, the ARC-170 looking like the X-Wing's prehistoric ancestor, etc.

I still disagree with the rebel/seperatist analysis, the Rebellion and the CIS have very different ideologies. Those two are only connected in that they are fighting the Galactic Republic/Galactic Empire.

The Old Republic aka the First Galactic Republic aka the Old Order was a representative democracy, it officially died when Palpatine came to power. It had been dying a slow death for a long time, and its decay and weakness led in part to the CIS. The Rebellion's primary goal is to restore the Old Republic, which the Resistance is sure to do also as the "good guys".

The goal of the CIS was to secede from the Old Republic/Galactic Republic so that they would not be taxed and could control their own resources. The CIS was comprised of trade federations, industry conglomerates, banking guilds, outer rim territories and disenfranchised sectors. Even before Palpatine came to power, far before the Clone Wars under Palpatines Galactic Republic they were seceding. It was formed because the Old Republic was not providing adequate protection, taxing their trade, exploiting their resources and not heeding their voices. The CIS raises up a figurehead in the form of Count Dooku, who himself was disenfranchised with the Jedi Order and the Old Republic. Note that the Hutts had the CIS repel the Galactic Republic from Tantooine during the Clone Wars and Mandalore joined the CIS during the Clone Wars. The Hutt Enforcers, Death Watch from Mandalore and Black Sun formed a crime group known as the Shadow Syndicate during this era. The CIS, Hutts, Black Sun, Mandalores, etc. are not "good guys" and are not fighting the Old Republic/Galactic Republic/Empire to restore democracy, they are in it for themselves and for credits.

TLDR: No it doesn't make sense. I agree Jedi would not be in the Galactic Republic, because they should be in the Old Republic aka "good guys".

TLDR: No it doesn't make sense. I agree Jedi would not be in the Galactic Republic, because they should be in the Old Republic aka "good guys".

I understand what you're saying, but I think you're crazy if you think they'd seriously implement Clone Wars era stuff at the same time as Old Republic era stuff in order to do that.

You aren't going to get Galactic Republic vs. Old Republic in the same wave. You're going to get Galactic Republic vs. Seperatists waves.

Then, if you're lucky, much later, you'll get Old Rebublic vs Sith Empire waves.

The fact remains, the Clone Wars is where the majority of the ships from the prequel era come from. That's the era FFG will make models for. The Jedi still flew for the Republic during the Clone Wars. So the Republic is going to be on the Rebels faction.

It doesn't matter if it doesn't make logical political sense. It's about perception. Nobody is going to perceive Obi-Wan flying for the Empire acceptable. And nobody is going to perceive Sith Lord Count Dooku as Scum & Villainy as making sense.

just occurred to me that the gap between III and IV is about the same as between VI and VII (20 years, then 30 years).

I could accept the prequel era ships if presented through the "lense" of the galactic civil war. That is, Republic ships are Empire made and CIS stuff is found in scum or rebel hands.

just occurred to me that the gap between III and IV is about the same as between VI and VII (20 years, then 30 years).

I could accept the prequel era ships if presented through the "lense" of the galactic civil war. That is, Republic ships are Empire made and CIS stuff is found in scum or rebel hands.

I'd be cool with that.

TLDR: No it doesn't make sense. I agree Jedi would not be in the Galactic Republic, because they should be in the Old Republic aka "good guys".

I understand what you're saying, but I think you're crazy if you think they'd seriously implement Clone Wars era stuff at the same time as Old Republic era stuff in order to do that.

You aren't going to get Galactic Republic vs. Old Republic in the same wave. You're going to get Galactic Republic vs. Seperatists waves.

Then, if you're lucky, much later, you'll get Old Rebublic vs Sith Empire waves.

The fact remains, the Clone Wars is where the majority of the ships from the prequel era come from. That's the era FFG will make models for. The Jedi still flew for the Republic during the Clone Wars. So the Republic is going to be on the Rebels faction.

It doesn't matter if it doesn't make logical political sense. It's about perception. Nobody is going to perceive Obi-Wan flying for the Empire acceptable. And nobody is going to perceive Sith Lord Count Dooku as Scum & Villainy as making sense.

Keep in mind that Episode 1 occurs at 32 BBY. The following is a relevant timeline:

25,053 BBY to 19 BBY Old Republic

2 BBY (although rebel groups began in 18 BBY) to ? ABY Rebel Alliance

? ABY to ? ABY The Resistance

22 BBY to 19 BBY - Clone Wars <---- Palpatine's Ascension - Galactic Republic Symbol changed to Bendu Symbol, accumulation of power

19 BBY to ??? Galactic Empire

? ABY to ? ABY First Order

24 BBY to 19 BBY Confederacy of Independent Systems

I would imagine there would be a lot of crossover for the Clone Wars Republic and late Old Republic ships, which is why the pilots should be separated by philosophy/political doctrine. Obi Wan and all the Jedi (bar Anakin) were opposed to what was happening to the Republic during the clone wars, so obviously they wouldn't fly with the Empire. Conversely, it doesn't make much sense for sleeper cell clones that shoot you in the back of the head at a command to be the "good guys" does it? Perhaps it doesn't make sense to you, but allow me to elucidate in regards to Count Dooku. Count Dooku was trying to secede and in so doing reset the stagnate Republic via the Separatist Movement. His apprentice Asajj Ventress flies a Genosian made fighter, he flies a Genosian made starship, he commands the droid army and he is the figurehead of the CIS so yes, it does make sense that he is S&V. There is no going back for him, he cannot be the head of the Galactic Republic unless he overthrows it by force, and in order to reset it he has to defeat it because there is no escape, his identity is known. This also explains why he was so shocked when betrayed by Palpatine, he thought he would be able to betray him first, hence why he had his own apprentice and dark acolytes. Seriously, Dooku was sieging Coruscant under the CIS, had his master "restrained" and was about to win. Check the timeline, between 32 BBY to 19 BBY there exists all three groups; The Old Republic, the CIS and the Clone Era Galactic Republic.

Maybe someone will ave an N1 fighter in episode VII. Probably Leia.

Leia doesn't even know who her birth mother is or where she came from based on Return of the Jedi so why would she go through the trouble of tracking down an N-1?

As for what side the prequel ships should be on I think CIS craft as rebels and the Republic craft as Imperials makes the most sense.

In the EU the rebels used a number of CIS ships in the early days and in Tarkin we see the same of the early canon Rebel movements while in both canon and EU the Empire continued to use Republic craft for years after the war. Don't forget that in Rebels we see the Empire still using Clone Wars era Republic warships.

Leia doesn't even know who her birth mother is or where she came from based on Return of the Jedi so why would she go through the trouble of tracking down an N-1?

As for what side the prequel ships should be on I think CIS craft as rebels and the Republic craft as Imperials makes the most sense.

In the EU the rebels used a number of CIS ships in the early days and in Tarkin we see the same of the early canon Rebel movements while in both canon and EU the Empire continued to use Republic craft for years after the war. Don't forget that in Rebels we see the Empire still using Clone Wars era Republic warships.

Maybe the ghost of her dead father told her?

Also since she's force sensitive she may well have had memories of her birth mother.

And maybe she tracked down an old Jedi Starfighter for Luke too.

Leia doesn't even know who her birth mother is or where she came from based on Return of the Jedi so why would she go through the trouble of tracking down an N-1?

As for what side the prequel ships should be on I think CIS craft as rebels and the Republic craft as Imperials makes the most sense.

In the EU the rebels used a number of CIS ships in the early days and in Tarkin we see the same of the early canon Rebel movements while in both canon and EU the Empire continued to use Republic craft for years after the war. Don't forget that in Rebels we see the Empire still using Clone Wars era Republic warships.

Maybe the ghost of her dead father told her?

Also since she's force sensitive she may well have had memories of her birth mother.

And maybe she tracked down an old Jedi Starfighter for Luke too.

Maybe her brother told her at an appropriate time after the celebration at the end ROTJ. I imagine this would occur, Luke would be a real jerk to not let her know their dad was dead....

Leia doesn't even know who her birth mother is or where she came from based on Return of the Jedi so why would she go through the trouble of tracking down an N-1?

As for what side the prequel ships should be on I think CIS craft as rebels and the Republic craft as Imperials makes the most sense.

In the EU the rebels used a number of CIS ships in the early days and in Tarkin we see the same of the early canon Rebel movements while in both canon and EU the Empire continued to use Republic craft for years after the war. Don't forget that in Rebels we see the Empire still using Clone Wars era Republic warships.

Maybe the ghost of her dead father told her?

Also since she's force sensitive she may well have had memories of her birth mother.

And maybe she tracked down an old Jedi Starfighter for Luke too.

Maybe her brother told her at an appropriate time after the celebration at the end ROTJ. I imagine this would occur, Luke would be a real jerk to not let her know their dad was dead....

What? Have you not seen RotJ?

The new Core Rules made it pretty obvious that, while they might introduce new subfactions, any new factions are going to fall into one of the three Primary Factions: Rebel, Imperial and Scum.

My guess is Galactic Republic will be Rebels and Seperatists will be Empire to keep the good guys and bad guys together(even though, philosophically, they make more sense the other way around).

Scum will still be scum, maybe with a new Mandalorian subfaction.

While I did say that all of Star Wars faction boil down to the light side, dark side, and other, politically I don't think that placing CIS in the same faction as the Galactic Empire fits. That is why I go with more of a wheel type alliance, where you pick a faction and can have say 40 out of 100 of those points spent on ships from neighboring factions while keeping the majority in your chosen faction. (I made a more specific alliance chart in previous posts.)

So on to the alliance wheel with the 6 factions from Episodes 1-7 + S&V.

S&V <=> CIS <=> FO <=> GE <=> Rep <=> RA <=> Res <=> S&V

Now some of these are already in place such as Galactic Empire and First Order as well as Rebel Alliance and Resistance . Some just make sense such as Republic and Rebel Alliance still I will explain each neighboring faction and how it all holds together. I'll think I'll start with the Galactic Empire instead of the Scum and Villainy .

Galactic Empire & Republic : Well again a no brainier as the Republic becomes the Galactic Empire so naturally the Galactic Empire inherits all the Republic equipment. As for Republic taking Galactic Empire stuff it could fit as either prototypes towards the end of the Clone wars or as a 3rd line Garrison with ancient equipment.

Republic & Rebel Alliance : They don't call it a civil war for nothing. While the Palpatine might have been making TIE fighters the Republic was still invested in other starfighters. Also considering that the leaders of the rebel Alliance are disposed members of the Galactic Senate they would gain access to starfighters that were not the focus of the emperors attention like Sinear Fleets.

Rebel Alliance & Resistance : Because the Rebels became the Resistance. I don't know why you think they would have a Galaxy to run or a government to reform but no and since they are opposing the man they got to remain rebels ind destroy the power instead of using power for good.

Resistance & Scum : Because why not, okay that is the only place I could fit it but to be honest it makes sense. The Alliance was made to restore the Republic which obviously hasn't happen yet because they are too busy resisting the First Order. So since they haven't consolidated power and made a legitimate government yet the galaxy is rather fractured so they will have to continue to forge alliances since there is no unifying power. All the neutral parties have their old and reliable tech so sure pair them with the Resistance and Local System Governments and small scale organizations. (This may change depending on the movie).

Scum & Confederate of Independent Systems : Okay this one is a much better fit as the CIS was known to employ bounty hunters as well as recruit pirates and mercenaries to subvert the Republic. Yes they were still taking orders from Sideous/Palpatine but who is to say that they didn't make investments in anything that was not under Republic Control.

Confederate of Independent Systems & First Order : Might not be as clear at first as there is the whole era between these two faction but as the Jedi Council still held watch over the Republic the CIS was the haven for the Sith. Now the Sith might have not been reformed but the First Order takes great intrest in the legacy of the Sith thus they would often seek artifacts from the CIS so it fits perfectly.

First Order & Galactic Empire : Since the Galactic Empire becomes the First Order and already the new rules have declared these two sub-factions part of the Imperial Primary faction then sure they are imperials, and the circle is now complete.

So here now we got a continuous circle that is split from Imperial as well as Rebel and other as much as it is split with Dark side to light side.

-other| |------ DARK SIDE----| |---------Light Side-----| |other

S&V <=> CIS <=> FO <=> GE <=> Rep <=> RA <=> Res <=> S&V

|----------Imperial-------| |---Rebel----|

The only canon book tarkin very clearly shows the empire using the arc five years after the clone wars, and rebels using separatist ships.

It would make no sense for the empire to use droid ships they just fought a war against them remember.

The republic and the empire are one and the same.

The only canon book tarkin very clearly shows the empire using the arc five years after the clone wars, and rebels using separatist ships.

It would make no sense for the empire to use droid ships they just fought a war against them remember.

The republic and the empire are one and the same.

This. It isn't a hard concept, they have clones shooting Jedi in the back, they aren't friends of the Old Republic.

Just a quick interceptor example:

Galactic Republic would get the Eta-2 Interceptor (2 generic, 1 ace, Anakin Skywalker)

Old Republic would get the Delta-7 Interceptor (2 generic, 1 ace, Obi-Wan Kenobi)

CIS would get the Belbullab-22 Starfighter (2 generic, 1 ace, General Grievious)

Later on S&V could get a Mandalore subfaction or something else depending on what happens in episode 7.

I would imagine there would be a lot of crossover for the Clone Wars Republic and late Old Republic ships

I don't believe that's the case though. I'm pretty sure almost all of the ships the clones used were developed FOR the Clone army.

That means your Old Rebpublic list would consist of...the N-1 Naboo Starfighter, and not much else.

Nevertheless, the clone troopers are absolutely good guys in Clone Wars, and season 2 of Rebels looks to continue that trend. And it's made clear that Order 66 is a mental trigger they don't have any control over or are even aware exists

I don't agree with ANY of that. All that Dooku was trying to do was manipulate the Republic into giving complete power over to Palpatine. There are several points in Clone Wars where they make it clear Dooku has no intention of ultimately winning the war. He only needs to push the Republic until they feel they have to give power over to Palpatine.

Dooku is shocked when Palpatine betrayed him because Palpatine was having him killed even though he'd done everything Palpatine wanted.

God **** it the prequels aren't good. Go listen to Nickelback somewhere else.

I think you need to consider who would fight together.

People of the Republic (real people, not sleeper agent clones) would obviously fight with the Alliance to Restore the Republic, so that match-up is obvious.

As for the separatists/whatever - match them with Scum? They were "business men" who took up arms to defend their financial interests against the democratic government, after all.

I think the problem is crewing the ships. Clearly clones wouldn't fly for the Alliance, but Jedi wouldn't fly for the Empire. Perhaps FFG should make up some pilots of their own (and if they're going to do that, you wouldn't even need new factions - just make up some Rebel /Scum squadrons of upgraded old fighters with newly made up pilots).

Please stop with this prequel nonsense. It serves no good.

Why? You don't need to buy it. I don't need to buy it. FFG don't need to make it. Whether it's a good idea or not from a business perspective depends on how many people WOULD buy it (and the demands of the licensor). You don't need to worry your pretty little head about this thread, either, it's not like we're FFG decision makers after all.

In terms of 'it's old tech and must be obsolete', guess what, so's the T-65, Imperial Tie. Sell all your stuff apart from the new Core and be done with it. Hell, the YT-1300 according to Wookieepedia was 72 years old at Yavin, so now, what, nearly 100?

Épisode 2 - check the yt1300 on the naboo spaceport.

God **** it the prequels aren't good. Go listen to Nickelback somewhere else.

But the ships in them are. And since this game is all about the ships, and not the story, or the acting or any of the other things that sucked about the prequels, there's no reason to keep them out of the game.

With all the new movies coming out, 1 each year, we'll have an Episode 8 Core Set but before THAT- we'll get a Rogue Squadron Core Set and eventually we'll get a core set with ships the Clone Wars. Core sets for you and you... core sets for EVERYBODY!!!

Just being sarcastic... but I predict that we will eventually see ships from all canon eras. There should be enough cool ships from Rebels and Episodes 7-8-9 and any stand alone features to keep us happy until Wave 20 is on the boat.

Since we already have upgrade cards that are faction-specific, I don't see why we couldn't have a multi-faction ship released with faction-specific (or era-specific) pilot cards.

For example, the Delta-7 Aethersprite could be released with generic pilots suitable for use with the Old Republic faction or Empire, Rise of the Empire era or Rebellion era, with an Empire ace and Plo Koon as the Old Republic ace.

Virtually all of the CW ships were absorbed into the Empire, as the sheer size of the galaxy meant that more far-flung systems didn't get new equipment for some time. Those ships were likely scrapped or sold so it's entirely plausible to see them in the hands of the Rebellion and Scum.

God **** it the prequels aren't good. Go listen to Nickelback somewhere else.

Quality posting there chum.

I would imagine there would be a lot of crossover for the Clone Wars Republic and late Old Republic ships

I don't believe that's the case though. I'm pretty sure almost all of the ships the clones used were developed FOR the Clone army.

That means your Old Rebpublic list would consist of...the N-1 Naboo Starfighter, and not much else.

Conversely, it doesn't make much sense for sleeper cell clones that shoot you in the back of the head at a command to be the "good guys" does it?

Nevertheless, the clone troopers are absolutely good guys in Clone Wars, and season 2 of Rebels looks to continue that trend. And it's made clear that Order 66 is a mental trigger they don't have any control over or are even aware exists

The Old Republic did have soldiers that were led by the Jedis, they are known as the Judicial Forces. Prior to the clone wars they were responsible for peacekeeping operations. Their ships include the Z-Wing, Cloakshape Fighter, Delta-7 Interceptor, ARC-170, BTL-B Y-Wing, H-60 Tempest Bomber (this could be a title for b-wing), and you could include the H-Type Nubian Yacht, J-Type Star Skiff and N-1 Starfighter. Of course many of the ships developed in the clone war were used by clones, however the Grand Army of The Republic consisted of both clones and the reabsorbed Judicial Forces.

I don't see how you can say the clones are good guys, allies of convenience and circumstances sure, but good guys? They don't have the same values of the people they are fighting for, they are bred soldiers that look down on the non-jedi Judicial Forces, the very people they are fighting alongside. Maybe we have different ideas of good, good to me is not being shot in my back by my own forces.

God **** it the prequels aren't good. Go listen to Nickelback somewhere else.

But the ships in them are. And since this game is all about the ships, and not the story, or the acting or any of the other things that sucked about the prequels, there's no reason to keep them out of the game.

I think the problem is crewing the ships. Clearly clones wouldn't fly for the Alliance, but Jedi wouldn't fly for the Empire.

I don't think that's relevant. None of these groups would fly with any of those groups, because they didn't exist at the same time.

This last point of yours is ridiculous, isn't Darth Vader dead at the end of ROTJ? For that matter, why is Biggs flying with Poe Dameron?

Ive included the symbols of these time periods, look at the changes. The symbol for the GAR is a deviation of the Galactic Roundel and lo and behold turns into the Imperial Cog. The Rebellion is striving to recreate the Old Republic, before its last days as the Galactic Republic, notice their inspiration? The last row is the various symbols of scum and villainy and CIS.

According to you, this is the progression of pilots by faction type:

.....yeah......ok.......some overlap in clone era which I have already stated.

At this point I have given you timelines, symbols, ships and pilot outfits. Please actually produce something relevant to your argument besides your opinion that I am "crazy" and your ersatz relationship with clones. Finally, don't say the people can't understand because "perceptions", any child can see the perceive the progression of clones to stormtroopers and that shooting allies in the back isn't a good guy thing.

Ive included the symbols of these time periods, look at the changes. The symbol for the GAR is a deviation of the Galactic Roundel and lo and behold turns into the Imperial Cog. The Rebellion is striving to recreate the Old Republic, before its last days as the Galactic Republic, notice their inspiration? The last row is the various symbols of scum and villainy and CIS.

And I can't believe you somehow failed to notice that the first Galactic Empire symbol is clearly a hybrid of the Galactic Republic Symbol and the CIS symbol. Taking the stylization of the former and combining it with the 6-pointed design of the latter.

I should probably also point out that, technically, according to EU lore, the Alliance Starbird is the family crest of Galen Marek, and is used to honor his memory. Not a reference to the Old Republic.

We don't talk about TFU. I like to think it is decanonized due to neglect. Never finished the "story".