We don't talk about TFU. I like to think it is decanonized due to neglect. Never finished the "story".

Well, it's decanonized do to the fact that it's pre-Disney EU. But then, so is a LOT of the stuff in this game.

Personally, if Rebels is set to cover the formation of the Rebel Alliance like it appears to be, I kinda hope Galen, Juno and Rahm make appearances in it.

The Old Republic did have soldiers that were led by the Jedis, they are known as the Judicial Forces. Prior to the clone wars they were responsible for peacekeeping operations. Their ships include the Z-Wing, Cloakshape Fighter, Delta-7 Interceptor, ARC-170, BTL-B Y-Wing, H-60 Tempest Bomber (this could be a title for b-wing), and you could include the H-Type Nubian Yacht, J-Type Star Skiff and N-1 Starfighter. Of course many of the ships developed in the clone war were used by clones, however the Grand Army of The Republic consisted of both clones and the reabsorbed Judicial Forces.

So essentially, when FFG finally makes the leap into introducing the Clone Wars prequel era, they're going to fill up the Rebel side with ships and forces nobody will recognize.

Look, again, I understand what you're saying. It's makes total sense from a political perspective. But it makes ZERO SENSE from a marketing perspective. There is NO WAY FFG is going to do the Clone Wars era, and not fill it's waves with the ships fans of the show and films actually know and love, and not have the two main factions of the war line up with the two main factions of the game.

It's just, not, going, to happen.

Splitting the forces up by Light Side, Dark Side and Other makes the most sense from the perspective of actually selling the game to people that actually like the movies and the show.

Ive included the symbols of these time periods, look at the changes. The symbol for the GAR is a deviation of the Galactic Roundel and lo and behold turns into the Imperial Cog. The Rebellion is striving to recreate the Old Republic, before its last days as the Galactic Republic, notice their inspiration? The last row is the various symbols of scum and villainy and CIS.

And I can't believe you somehow failed to notice that the first Galactic Empire symbol is clearly a hybrid of the Galactic Republic Symbol and the CIS symbol. Taking the stylization of the former and combining it with the 6-pointed design of the latter.

I should probably also point out that, technically, according to EU lore, the Alliance Starbird is the family crest of Galen Marek, and is used to honor his memory. Not a reference to the Old Republic.

Ships no one recognizes? Delta-7, ARC-170, N-1 starfighter, Nubian Yacht and J-Type skiff were all in the PT, what movies are you watching? There are more ships that was just a quick list of ships that had prominent roles in the Judicial Forces and Grand Army of the Republic.

Please tell me, does this look like a rebel or imperial ship:

FYI Young Darth Vader flew a black, heavily customized ETA-2 interceptor before getting his TIE series starfighter.

How the flop does the Galactic Empire symbol look like the Galactic Republic + CIS other than they both have spokes?

I can't believe that you failed to notice this: Top row is the Clone Wars Era Galactic Republic Bendu + Sith Empire Symbol.....

Bottom row is your CIS + Galactic Republic Bendu before and during clone wars.

Please tell me which one looks more like the Galactic Empire symbol.

Please tell me, does this look like a rebel or imperial ship:

Oh the Actis definitely looks Imperial. But the ARC-170, the clone Y-Wing, the clone Z-95, all look Rebel.

I didn't even have to make this image, it was already on the internet:

Like you said, the old Galactic Republic symbol is Bendu inspired. And to them the 8-sided nature of it had great meaning. The fact that they changed it to a 6-sided symbol just like the CIS before the war had even ended is significant. The 6 sides are representative of the Sith, which is why both the CIS and the Galactic Empire symbols are 6-sided, as both are under the control of the Sith.

Please tell me, does this look like a rebel or imperial ship:

Oh the Actis definitely looks Imperial. But the ARC-170, the clone Y-Wing, the clone Z-95, all look Rebel.

How the flop does the Galactic Empire symbol look like the Galactic Republic + CIS other than they both have spokes?

And they both have 6 sides.

In fact, I notice you used the 6-sided Galactic Republic symbol on the top row and the 8-sided one on the bottom row to try and sway the comparison.

I didn't even have to make this image, it was already on the internet:

Like you said, the old Galactic Republic symbol is Bendu inspired. And to them the 8-sided nature of it had great meaning. The fact that they changed it to a 6-sided symbol just like the CIS before the war had even ended is significant. The 6 sides are representative of the Sith, which is why both the CIS and the Galactic Empire symbols are 6-sided, as both are under the control of the Sith.

Please look again at the bottom row again, both the 8 sided and 6 sided Galactic Republic + CIS are down there. Neither looks closer than Sith Empire + Clone Wars Galactic Republic symbol to the Galactic Empire Symbol.

Edit: Please overlay your images if you actually have a point, don't be lazy

Please overlay your images if you actually have a point, don't be lazy

I don't need to overlay them. I explained the point very clearly that the number of sides is the significant part.

Anyone who can count can tell the number of sides on those symbols. I don't need to hold their hand.

The Bendu symbol and the Galactic Republic symbol before, and throughout most of the Clone Wars was an 8-sided symbol. The CIS, Galactic Empire and Sith Empire symbols, and even the Galactic Republic's symbol just before the end of the Clone Wars, is 6-sided. Because the 6 sides represents the Sith.

Just like the CIS and the Galactic Empire factions represent the Sith.

Please overlay your images if you actually have a point, don't be lazy

I don't need to overlay them. I explained the point very clearly that the number of sides is the significant part.

Anyone who can count can tell the number of sides on those symbols. I don't need to hold their hand.

The Bendu symbol and the Galactic Republic symbol before, and throughout most of the Clone Wars was an 8-sided symbol. The CIS, Galactic Empire and Sith Empire symbols, and even the Galactic Republic's symbol just before the end of the Clone Wars, is 6-sided. Because the 6 sides represents the Sith.

Just like the CIS and the Galactic Empire factions represent the Sith.

Again, look at the images I created, I actually put in the effort to produce what you stated. I did not sway the comparison, I made both so you can clearly see what they look like. I overlapped CIS + 6 Spoke Clone Era Bendu and also CIS + 8 Spoke Galactic Republic Bendu and neither looks closer to the Galactic Empire symbol than the Sith Empire + Clone Era Bendu. Perhaps someone does need some hand holding......

*sigh* fine. If it will help you understand.

That should make it abundantly clear that both the the CIS symbol and the Galactic Empire symbol are based heavily on the Sith symbol.

The only symbol that's NOT based on it, is the Galactic Republic's symbol.

Thats fine if they are both heavily influenced by the Sith symbol, no one disagrees, I never did. Its in the lore that Darth Tyranus was a part of the CIS leadership. Your premise was this:

[...]

And I can't believe you somehow failed to notice that the first Galactic Empire symbol is clearly a hybrid of the Galactic Republic Symbol and the CIS symbol. Taking the stylization of the former and combining it with the 6-pointed design of the latter.

[...]

Which isn't what you just posted, you clearly didn't use the Galactic Republic Symbol, you used the Sith Empire symbol. Either way, I get what you are saying, and I hope that FFG marketing doesn't get its way in this case. The clone troopers to stormtroopers and Clone Era Galactic Republic symbol to Galactic Empire symbol is too strong of a connection to ignore. It doesn't make sense to align the separatists with the Imperials, nor can I see the majority of clones being with the rebels. There are small groups of clones that disobeyed order 66, but they are the exception. All I am saying is that an ARC-170 flown by a clone Red Squadron Pilot could indeed be loyalists, as they all died when on a mission with Kenobi, so we could easily say that they would ignore 66 if they had received it. There were other clones that flew with Anakin and Kenobi during the Siege of Coruscant, Squad Seven, that were there when the Emperor picked up Darth Vader on Mustafar, so clearly they cannot be part of the rebellion. The clone wars is messy, but that doesn't mean people can't figure it out.

It doesn't make sense to align the separatists with the Imperials, nor can I see the majority of clones being with the rebels. There are small groups of clones that disobeyed order 66, but they are the exception.

I don't agree with this. In Clone Wars, the clone troopers are shown to be, by and large, good, loyal people who believe in the Republic.

Order 66 is a sleeper trigger. It's literally a chip in their head that forces them to turn on the Jedi. They have no control over it. And this single moment of of what is essentially mind control shouldn't dictate their allegiance counter to their entire Clone Wars participation.

Jeez I think some people are putting far too much thought into this. As great as the Star Wars Universe is, it's not real!

It can all be so simple...

Republic Faction - Anakin, Obi-wan, Ahsoka and other Jedi + notable Clones (Rex, Cody etc) as the named pilots. Other Clone piloted ships as the generics.

Separatist Faction - General Grievous, Dooku, Asajj Ventress etc as the named Pilots. Droid ships as the generics.

This is a GAME played with very cool looking toy spaceships on a table. It doesn't matter if Republic Faction young Anakin is fighting against Empire Faction Darth Vader or that Clones are fighting against TIE Fighter Pilots etc anymore than it matters now when you have a Rebel vs Rebel game and there are two Han Solos on the table.

If that or the fact that these are from the hated Prequels does bother you (which is fair enough) then that's fine also. Just don't buy the new factions or play with them.

*sigh* fine. If it will help you understand.

That should make it abundantly clear that both the the CIS symbol and the Galactic Empire symbol are based heavily on the Sith symbol.

The only symbol that's NOT based on it, is the Galactic Republic's symbol.

Which is why I put the CIS next to the FO in my Alliance wheel.

S&V <=> CIS <=> FO <=> GE <=> Rep <=> RA <=> Res <=> S&V

one of these days I'm going to go on MS paint and make a real wheel.

Republic Faction - Anakin, Obi-wan, Ahsoka and other Jedi + notable Clones (Rex, Cody etc) as the named pilots. Other Clone piloted ships as the generics.

Separatist Faction - General Grievous, Dooku, Asajj Ventress etc as the named Pilots. Droid ships as the generics.

I don't think anyone is arguing with that.

The argument is, given FFGs "3 Primary Factions: Rebel, Imperial, Scum" stance, which Primary Factions would the Republic and Separatist subfactions belong to.

Edit: Well, actually, looking at it more closely, I do argue with that. You want the named pilots and the generic pilots to have different ships? That's not how the game works.

It doesn't make sense to align the separatists with the Imperials, nor can I see the majority of clones being with the rebels. There are small groups of clones that disobeyed order 66, but they are the exception.

I don't agree with this. In Clone Wars, the clone troopers are shown to be, by and large, good, loyal people who believe in the Republic.

Order 66 is a sleeper trigger. It's literally a chip in their head that forces them to turn on the Jedi. They have no control over it. And this single moment of of what is essentially mind control shouldn't dictate their allegiance counter to their entire Clone Wars participation.

Have you read the Star Wars Republic Commando series? It gives insight into the clones and their training, in that book series Order 66 is a learned order. The Republic got a clone army, not citizens, which means they obtained a non-voting warrior caste. The clones are expected to go and fight at the worst battles in the conflict and even if they survive all the conflicts they will still die relatively soon due to their rapid aging. The clones respect the combat prowess of the Jedi but look down on the Judicial Forces as weak and outdated; there is a superiority-complex in the clones and rightfully so, they were born and forged as warriors, its their whole life. The clones would be the most disciplined army ever, they would follow their commanders order, and the biochip was there to further ensure that. The clones may not wish the Jedi any harm, and some even disobey Order 66 (especially the more autonomous clone troopers) but the majority simply is following orders. Orders that may or may not be reinforced by a biochip depending on your source material. Unless you teach the clones morality, a highly undesirable trait in an army which makes them susceptible to disobeying orders, then they will execute any orders that come down from the chain of command. In short, some clones were good and did disobey Order 66 but the majority were closer to neutral/bad, mainly due to their ignorance, environment, conditioning and biochips.

I'm saying that in the future there doesn't need to be just three primary factions, there can be five, just as in the past there were only two. If five factions improves the game, which I think introducing Clone Wars era ships would, then why not?

I'm not sure I understand your second point, but I could have worded my post badly (I'm ill currently). For Clone flown ships you have named Clones as pilots + generics. For ships that only Jedi fly then there's no reason you'd have to have any generic pilots. For Droid ships you can have all generics or maybe generics + squad leader pilots.

My main point is that there are no reasons really why things can't change ever so slightly and allow the introduction of some great new expansions.

The way people are arguing, they'd sure better never have run Biggs walks the Dogs. I mean, he died at Yavin, right? Right? It's IMPOSSIBLE he'd even see a B-Wing? Right? Right?

X-wing games and matchups are NOT canon. Never have been, never will be. Stop thinking they have to be, it'll make y'all much happier.

So Order 66 is really about as relevant as Luke popping the Emperor while's he's in the Palpatinemobile.

The way people are arguing, they'd sure better never have run Biggs walks the Dogs. I mean, he died at Yavin, right? Right? It's IMPOSSIBLE he'd even see a B-Wing? Right? Right?

X-wing games and matchups are NOT canon. Never have been, never will be. Stop thinking they have to be, it'll make y'all much happier.

So Order 66 is really about as relevant as Luke popping the Emperor while's he's in the Palpatinemobile.

Don't be silly, there are only two crew slots in the Lambda, clearly Luke and Vader can't be there.

I don't think people are arguing about the canon of timelines, more the faction alignments.

Have you read the Star Wars Republic Commando series? It gives insight into the clones and their training, in that book series Order 66 is a learned order.

I'm aware of it. But the Clone Wars series is Canon and Rebublic Commando is EU. And while I'm okay with EU stuff by and large, where it is specifically retconned by canon sources, I go by the canon.

In fact, Karen Traviss basically quit writing for Star Wars after Clone Wars retconned all the stuff she wrote about clone troopers out of continuity.

Clone Wars and Rebels spoilers:

This thread is why they should never add the prequels era ships, it'd cause nothing but strife.

I think the problem is crewing the ships. Clearly clones wouldn't fly for the Alliance, but Jedi wouldn't fly for the Empire.

I don't think that's relevant. None of these groups would fly with any of those groups, because they didn't exist at the same time.

Like Vader and Zeta Ace, for example?

I think that argument has conclusively been put to rest.

This thread is why they should never add the prequels era ships, it'd cause nothing but strife.

It might cause debates on these forums (or it might not, them having been had already many times), but in my experience players are generally too grown up, reasonable and nice for it to cause any problems around the table. Maybe your experience differs?

It might cause debates on these forums (or it might not, them having been had already many times), but in my experience players are generally too grown up, reasonable and nice for it to cause any problems around the table. Maybe your experience differs?

Well, IF FFG implements the Clone Wars era, they're going to assigns factions long before it gets to the table.

It's not like people are going to be able to argue around the table that they should be able to fly Anakin in their Imperial Squadron because reasons if FFG puts him in the Rebels. By the time you get to the table, you know what factions are what.

I know very few people want this, but I think most of the ships from the prequels are pretty cool, regardless of the quality of the movies they appear in. So, what if they're added to our beloved miniatures game? What factions would need to be added?

I suppose it would make sense to divide them into Seperatist vs. Republic factions, but how would those be paired up with the Rebel and Imperial factions? The Republic starts out as the good guys, but is then changed into the "Evil" Galactic Empire. So where would the Republic Cruiser or the Jedi Starfighter end up? It'd be strange to have Obi-Wan flying alongside Soontir Fel, trying to shoot down the Millennium Falcon - to the point where I doubt Disney would even allow it.

Perhaps there should instead be Jedi and Sith factions, with Seperatist craft being aligned with the Sith/Empire/First Order, and Republic craft aligned with Jedi/Rebels/Resistance?

To me the latter makes more sense - aside from the inevitable time paradox that occurs when Darth Vader kills Anakin in battle.

Do you want to see Prequel Trilogy ships added? And if so, how would you like FFG to handle them?

Evil Galactic Empire? What are you talking about? Peace, prosperity, and unification are evil? You've been watching those rebel propaganda films again.

Galactic Republic aligns with Empire and then the separatists and other rag tags go with scum and villainy and resistance.

And they aren't theoretical. They will happen. Too much marketing potential. Too much money to leave on the table.

Getting back on topic.

If they would ever add vulture droids, I think they would possibly be too cheap to work. Not to mention the model would be quite tiny. So what if instead they took the armada route and you have 2 or even 3 combined on one stand?

I know very few people want this, but I think most of the ships from the prequels are pretty cool, regardless of the quality of the movies they appear in. So, what if they're added to our beloved miniatures game? What factions would need to be added?

I suppose it would make sense to divide them into Seperatist vs. Republic factions, but how would those be paired up with the Rebel and Imperial factions? The Republic starts out as the good guys, but is then changed into the "Evil" Galactic Empire. So where would the Republic Cruiser or the Jedi Starfighter end up? It'd be strange to have Obi-Wan flying alongside Soontir Fel, trying to shoot down the Millennium Falcon - to the point where I doubt Disney would even allow it.

Perhaps there should instead be Jedi and Sith factions, with Seperatist craft being aligned with the Sith/Empire/First Order, and Republic craft aligned with Jedi/Rebels/Resistance?

To me the latter makes more sense - aside from the inevitable time paradox that occurs when Darth Vader kills Anakin in battle.

Do you want to see Prequel Trilogy ships added? And if so, how would you like FFG to handle them?

Evil Galactic Empire? What are you talking about? Peace, prosperity, and unification are evil? You've been watching those rebel propaganda films again.

Galactic Republic aligns with Empire and then the separatists and other rag tags go with scum and villainy and resistance.

And they aren't theoretical. They will happen. Too much marketing potential. Too much money to leave on the table.

I think you greatly over estimate the percentage of x-wing players that like the prequels, the majority here are OT fans.

Plus empire getting republic ships would just dilute the factions.

Not to mention the model would be quite tiny. So what if instead they took the armada route and you have 2 or even 3 combined on one stand?

I would not want that. I don't want swarm stands in X-Wing.