Rogue Squadron

X-wing and E-wing only.

Once per round when attacking of defending, if you performed a green manoeuvre this turn you may roll an additional dice.

(may not be assigned to T70 Xwing)

Not sure on a points cost

Hate to say it but the best fix might just mean a pt reduction. You dont wanna step on toes and make them the same. So the orginal xwing to me should be a cheaper version you can use as more of a filler.

Its gotta compete with the new X as well as the B. To me, cheaper would be the best fix.

If you reduce the point cost and take 5 rookies the tie swarm will suffer even further.

Maybe they should buff the X-wing and nerf the B-wing, they did it to the phantom after all.....

You remember that time those two b wings went to a tournament with a 14 point initiative bid and won... Yah I don't either.

My point was more along that nothing exists in a point vacuum, if a B-Wing is super good then of course no one will take a crappy T-65. You can't have two fat phantoms and have sufficient points left over for anything but a solo tie fighter, who will get smashed....... Which is why I will be taking Zeta Ace from now on with my two fat phantoms, thank you very much.

I have had several ideas for the T-65 fix and posted some ideas for locking/opening s-foils and increasing evade dice. I think this idea may be the best I have thought up yet:

What do you guys think?

S-Foils

Title. X-Wing only. (It could be a modification but X-Wings do already have S-Foils as you might agree if they made it a modification it should be called Improved S-Foils)

0 Points

Immediately before revealing your maneuver dial each turn, you may choose to close S-Foils.

If you do so, you must interchange the X-Wings agility value and attack value until the end of this game round. If you do so, you may execute a free boost action after completing your maneuver this turn.

(Maybe: On turns you choose to not close S-Foils, gain the barrel roll action on your action bar)

With the additional barrel roll the card would need to cost 1-2 points i think.

I guess my fix is a bit invalid today with the advent of Autothrusters and the T-70, but it was my idea XD

If what people want is synergy then how about giving the T65 something a little different from the usual addition of actions to the action bar, or stats to the stat bar.

Title: Yavin Veteran T65

A T65 that is within range 1 of another T65 may reroll one of its evade dice once per turn.

Hate to say it but the best fix might just mean a pt reduction. You dont wanna step on toes and make them the same. So the orginal xwing to me should be a cheaper version you can use as more of a filler.

Its gotta compete with the new X as well as the B. To me, cheaper would be the best fix.

If you reduce the point cost and take 5 rookies the tie swarm will suffer even further.

Maybe they should buff the X-wing and nerf the B-wing, they did it to the phantom after all.....

You can take 5 Cartel Marauders, so your argument doesn't hold up.

I'm not really in favor of a point reduction, been there done that. I'd like to see something that gives them an offensive boost. I think they should not get any more durable, Luke w/ LW and R2-D2 would become a monster.

OK so I know most people dont like the idea of turning the 65 into a 70. Doing that also has a very valid argument of not having enough dials to go around. Personally I say add a 3 point title that makes the 65 a 70 and call it good.

All of you guys complaining about that wouldn't be saying a word if the T-70 was never released and they dropped a title doing the exact same thing. However the logistics of doing so becomes difficult because of the different dial. So what about this:

3pts

Shield

Tech slot

Boost

Additional EPT

T-65 only or however you word it

This would make the only diff between the 2 the dial and keep the 65 inferior a bit. However it would allow an EPT on rookies meaning a PS2 65 with upgrade would have an EPT (its been 30 years they arent rookies anymore) and a T-70 would have the better dial. The only overlap would be the Red Squadron and Red Squad Vet.

I dont think any of the T-65 pilots would be broken with the change in ship stats and an additional EPT, in fact it would give them some interesting combos and still be slightly different than the T-70.

I'd actually like to see more astromechs, specifically more generics. They are the only real upgrade X-Wings can get and there isn't anything compelling with only 3 generics of meh quality. The x-wing "fix" could be a new generic astromech that synergizes well with having more X-Wings.

R3 Astromech: When attacking or defending, you may reroll 1 blank die for each other friendly ship at range 1 equipped with R3 Astromech.

or if that's too overpowered:

R3 Astromech: when attacking or defending, you may reroll 1 blank die if there is at least one other ship equipped with R3 Astromech.

R3 Astromech would make 4 X-Wings interesting but wouldn't benefit expensive pilots as much (at least with the first proposed ability). A cost reduction on astromechs might be interesting too but it would also buff the named pilots too much (i.e. Wedge+PTL taking R2Astromech for free). Maybe just a cost reduction on generic astromechs (R2, R5, R7 and my proposed R3), that way R3 would be expensive for E-Wing, Y-Wing, and T-70 but cheap for the X-Wing we are actually trying to fix.

It was inevitable. Now that we have the replacement X-Wing, of course we'll get several threads about fixing the original X-Wing, full of variations on making the T-65 equivalent to the T-70. It's the obvious solution, and therefore I doubt that's what FFG will do. They've shown themselves to be pretty creative when correcting issues they've seen with older ships. In fact, they've probably already figured it out and are just waiting for a release slot.

No doubt, it's a fun mental exercise to figure out what they're going to do (even added my own suggestion in a thread back in April), but prepare to be surprised by any actual fix that does get released.

If what people want is synergy then how about giving the T65 something a little different from the usual addition of actions to the action bar, or stats to the stat bar.

Title: Yavin Veteran T65

A T65 that is within range 1 of another T65 may reroll one of its evade dice once per turn.

Why would anyone want a title that turns a T-65 into a T-70 (in preference to a different T-65 fix)? Yay, let's turn these two not-especially-great ships into one not-especially-great ship!

Dream bigger, you know?

If what people want is synergy then how about giving the T65 something a little different from the usual addition of actions to the action bar, or stats to the stat bar.

Title: Yavin Veteran T65

A T65 that is within range 1 of another T65 may reroll one of its evade dice once per turn.

Unfortunately there are only two pilots, according to canon, that could take that title, Luke and Wedge. ☺

I would like to see some kind of "Attack Formation S-Foils" or "Linked Laser Cannons" Title for one point. Something that gives the X a little more punch. However the argument that the B-Wing is the Rebel's dedicated jouster and that the T-65 should transition into a different role is also very compelling. Perhaps a "Rogue Squadron Pilot" Title that grants a free barrel roll after a green maneuver...It could cost 1 point, then you could still bring the R2 Astromech on a Red Squadron Pilot and bring 4 of them. 20 total HP with repositioning, decent action economy, and 12 red dice doesn't seem too bad to me. Also hitting before most swarms at PS 1-2.

If what people want is synergy then how about giving the T65 something a little different from the usual addition of actions to the action bar, or stats to the stat bar.

Title: Yavin Veteran T65

A T65 that is within range 1 of another T65 may reroll one of its evade dice once per turn.

Unfortunately there are only two pilots, according to canon, that could take that title, Luke and Wedge....unless the Alliance has found a way to reanimate the dead. ☺

The name of the title really doesn't matter.

What do you think of the proposed fix?

Requires multiple X-Wings, removes variations in squads.

It really depends on what role the X-Wing is fit into. Personally I would like it to be a real multi-role ship.

T-65A

Rebel Alliance, X-Wing only

title, 0pt

-2 squad point cost on equipped Ordnance, -1 squad point cost on equipped Astromechs, EPT, and Modifications.

Just an idea, it makes them a lot more interesting. The downside, it has costs inherent to it, have to use all the stuff. Upside, it helps across the board without stepping on toes and encourages using all the stuff.

Could run Luke w/ Lone Wolf, R2-D2, Proton Torp, Engine Upgrade for 37pts.

T-65 Modernization Package

X-Wing Only. Title. 1 point.

Increase your Shield rating by 1. Your action bar gains the Barrel Roll action. T-70 X-Wings cannot take this upgrade.

Or something to that effect.

Maybe increase your Hull rating by 1 instead of Shield. That would be a very nice upgrade I think.

Why would anyone want a title that turns a T-65 into a T-70 (in preference to a different T-65 fix)? Yay, let's turn these two not-especially-great ships into one not-especially-great ship!

Dream bigger, you know?

I dunno I think the T-70 is just fine stat and point wise. It's ability to stay alive is on par with the B. I haven't crunched the numbers but its 2 HP vs 1 Evade die, that should be about a wash mathematically. Its more maneuverable and has different upgrades. So I think the T-70 and B work perfectly well together. Even with the additional 2 points of the 70

I generally hate fix-it threads, but I hate letting the trademark ship fall into obsolete status even more. What about:

Title card ("Rogue Squadron Pilot?" Or whatever) = increase T-65's attack value by 1.

The extra attack would probably account for all of the other shortcomings of the original X. Even if the title costs 1 point.

Why would anyone want a title that turns a T-65 into a T-70 (in preference to a different T-65 fix)? Yay, let's turn these two not-especially-great ships into one not-especially-great ship!

Dream bigger, you know?

I dunno I think the T-70 is just fine stat and point wise. It's ability to stay alive is on par with the B. I haven't crunched the numbers but its 2 HP vs 1 Evade die, that should be about a wash mathematically. Its more maneuverable and has different upgrades. So I think the T-70 and B work perfectly well together. Even with the additional 2 points of the 70

Don't worry. Major Juggler's got you covered.

Some efficiency numbers.

----------------------------------------- Old vs new -----------------------------------

Cost | | PS1 Jousting Efficiency | req

Ship name actual|predict| PS1 | JV | std | range | eff

PS2 T-65 X-wing 21 | 18.6 | 20.2 | 18.1 | 89.7% | 87.6% - 91.5% | 131.2%

PS2 T-70 X-wing 24 | TBD | 23 | 19.9 | 86.2% | 84.3% - 87.8% | 140.8%

PS2 B-wing 22 | 21.1 | 21.1 | 19.6 | 92.7% | 90% - 94.9% | 123.5%

So yeah. The T-70's a less efficient jouster than the T-65. And both are worse than the B-Wing. The T-70's Talon Roll and swapping the System upgrade and barrel roll for Tech, Astromech and boost has to be worth another 8% in efficiency, which is in no way a sure thing.

The generic T-70 is... Ok? My main point though is why people want to turn the T-65 into it. Why lose a ship to make it into a copy of another ship? That makes no sense to me.

Why would anyone want a title that turns a T-65 into a T-70 (in preference to a different T-65 fix)? Yay, let's turn these two not-especially-great ships into one not-especially-great ship!

Dream bigger, you know?

I dunno I think the T-70 is just fine stat and point wise. It's ability to stay alive is on par with the B. I haven't crunched the numbers but its 2 HP vs 1 Evade die, that should be about a wash mathematically. Its more maneuverable and has different upgrades. So I think the T-70 and B work perfectly well together. Even with the additional 2 points of the 70

Don't worry. Major Juggler's got you covered.

Some efficiency numbers.

----------------------------------------- Old vs new -----------------------------------

Cost | | PS1 Jousting Efficiency | req

Ship name actual|predict| PS1 | JV | std | range | eff

PS2 T-65 X-wing 21 | 18.6 | 20.2 | 18.1 | 89.7% | 87.6% - 91.5% | 131.2%

PS2 T-70 X-wing 24 | TBD | 23 | 19.9 | 86.2% | 84.3% - 87.8% | 140.8%

PS2 B-wing 22 | 21.1 | 21.1 | 19.6 | 92.7% | 90% - 94.9% | 123.5%

So yeah. The T-70's a less efficient jouster than the T-65. And both are worse than the B-Wing. The T-70's Talon Roll and swapping the System upgrade and barrel roll for Tech, Astromech and boost has to be worth another 8% in efficiency, which is in no way a sure thing.

The generic T-70 is... Ok? My main point though is why people want to turn the T-65 into it. Why lose a ship to make it into a copy of another ship? That makes no sense to me.

Agree.

We already have the T-70, why would we want the T-65 to become a T-70...

It really depends on what role the X-Wing is fit into. Personally I would like it to be a real multi-role ship.

This exactly. It's a multi-role ship in the fluff. It's the ship the game is named after. It would be awesome to be able to kit out a (Rebel) X-wing to fill specific roles, depending on how you want to use it.

And there's plenty of fluff to support titles: consider a non-titled Rebel X-wing a T-65 (or T-65A). Have a title that increases damage called "T-65B", cheaper astro "T-65C", improved ordnance "T-65D", or whatever the 'fixes' are. My point is that they've specifcally labeled the new X-wing a T-70, and I hope they play with the T-65 title with variants to bring the old Rebel workhorse back to the prominence it deserves.

I would like it to be different as well but I don't see anything you can do to it that would make it worth taking over a 70 or B.

And as far as the jousting ability that is only 1 role. The T-70 has the potential to be an arc dodger which the B wing does not. That alone could be a reason to take one over a B. I honestly think the B and the T-70 are very equivalent ships one is not significantly better than the other. However both are significantly better than the T-65.

The extra attack die is a nice idea but I dont see it happening. I dont think it would be OP but I dont think its a good fix either. The ships problem is maneuverability and survivability not damage capability.

I would like it to be different as well but I don't see anything you can do to it that would make it worth taking over a 70 or B.

And as far as the jousting ability that is only 1 role. The T-70 has the potential to be an arc dodger which the B wing does not. That alone could be a reason to take one over a B. I honestly think the B and the T-70 are very equivalent ships one is not significantly better than the other. However both are significantly better than the T-65.

The extra attack die is a nice idea but I dont see it happening. I dont think it would be OP but I dont think its a good fix either. The ships problem is maneuverability and survivability not damage capability.

The B-wing has Barrel Roll, though. So it still has arc dodging capabilities.

This is my take:

I like the first one best:

Title

T65 Modified

0 pt

T65 X-wings Only

Add the Barrel Roll action to your action bar and Subtract 3 points from any modification squad cost.

Sure it's one point, This add's barrel roll and lets you selectively add modifications as you see fit. It helps compete with with the B-wing too, It's faster, but doesn't have the cannon or Sensor option.

or

Title

T65 Modified Heavy

0 Pts

Subtract 2 from the squad points of any non unique astromech droid. Add +1 Hull.

(If you feel it's too much then you could add all 3 hard turns could count as red.)

Adding Boost or Barrel Roll to the T-65 for a point won't help it. If you want a 22-point 3-attack dice Rebel jouster with a repositioning action there's something already filling that role, and it's already more efficient than the X-Wing in raw numbers.

To be honest, adding Boost/BR to the X-Wing for FREE almost definitely won't help it. It's a jouster that can't joust. It needs its offensive or defensive efficiency boosting if it's going to return to anything approaching prominence. Personally, I'd choose to increase its offence, because a) the B-Wing and T-70 exist and are very durable so let's fill a niche that's currently empty on the Rebel side for a glass cannon fighter and b) sod making Biggs any harder to kill than the bugger already is.

So, the hell with it. Let's give the X-Wing another attack die. Or something that guarantees 3 hits a la Accuracy Corrector. Let's give it some flipping teeth.

No! There are already far too many 3dice-attack fighters in the game, several of the freighters have 3 as well. If the T65 gets free 4, then they are OP at that point cost.

It will be very frustating to field most of the TIE variants, Z95, Scyk, Y, Hwks etc. due to their low attack value if attack values are on their way up all the time.

Remember that a number of ships have only 3 health, how much fun is it to field them against 3-4 X-wings which all by themselves easily can one-shot one per turn. A really fast skirmish...

Only way I MAYBE could imagine them having 4 attack is to have a mechanism similar to the ram attack in the old Man o'War game (early 90ties GW fantasy sail/oar/steamship battles), where you had to do a certain maneuver (3"or more straight in that case) in order to use the powerful attack. So for the T65, that a certain maneuver gives the pilot the chance to overload the lasers - a bit like the old computer simulators (where I only have flown the first one from the early 90ties).

Adding Boost or Barrel Roll to the T-65 for a point won't help it. If you want a 22-point 3-attack dice Rebel jouster with a repositioning action there's something already filling that role, and it's already more efficient than the X-Wing in raw numbers.

To be honest, adding Boost/BR to the X-Wing for FREE almost definitely won't help it. It's a jouster that can't joust. It needs its offensive or defensive efficiency boosting if it's going to return to anything approaching prominence. Personally, I'd choose to increase its offence, because a) the B-Wing and T-70 exist and are very durable so let's fill a niche that's currently empty on the Rebel side for a glass cannon fighter and b) sod making Biggs any harder to kill than the bugger already is.

So, the hell with it. Let's give the X-Wing another attack die. Or something that guarantees 3 hits a la Accuracy Corrector. Let's give it some flipping teeth.

No! There are already far too many 3dice-attack fighters in the game, several of the freighters have 3 as well. If the T65 gets free 4, then they are OP at that point cost.

It will be very frustating to field most of the TIE variants, Z95, Scyk, Y, Hwks etc. due to their low attack value if attack values are on their way up all the time.

Remember that a number of ships have only 3 health, how much fun is it to field them against 3-4 X-wings which all by themselves easily can one-shot one per turn. A really fast skirmish...

Only way I MAYBE could imagine them having 4 attack is to have a mechanism similar to the ram attack in the old Man o'War game (early 90ties GW fantasy sail/oar/steamship battles), where you had to do a certain maneuver (3"or more straight in that case) in order to use the powerful attack. So for the T65, that a certain maneuver gives the pilot the chance to overload the lasers - a bit like the old computer simulators (where I only have flown the first one from the early 90ties).

I really like this idea, reminiscent of knight preparing for the joust. "Three Forward! Divert power from rear deflectors to weapon system R2."