How is the old HWK broken? The Scum builds at least are great!

They could do an aces pack with extra dials in it. Same way as the most wanted pack

i want a T/D pilot who gets a free barrel roll when he k-turns.

hell i'll homebrew that one to represent myself.

Back to the HWK and it's dial though. You guys do realize it's a light freighter right, not a starfighter? Does your minivan handle like an italian sports car? Even like an Impretza or high spec Audi?

My problem's not the HWK's dial per se, its that it should have the K-wing's dial and vice versa

That's why we have Chardaan Refits, B-Wings that can carry crew, TIE Advanceds with system slots, TIE Interceptors with two modifications, a new damage deck, a third faction, Warthog Y-Wings and do I really need to go on?

Those ship upgrades are all Title cards though. And there's no good way for a title card to change a ship's dial.

Notice that everything you say can't be done actually has a very simple solution.

I too think it could, and probably should, be done; the most likely way it can happen is to allow the use of another ship's dial for one turn, via title card. Something along the line of

"if not stressed this ship may use the dial of either x, y or z to set it's maneuver for the turn. If it uses a dial other than x it receives 1 stress after the check pilot phase".

That way you could target specific dials for certain ships, and make it a tactical choice to use another dial rather than using the other all the time. While it could be a modification card I like it better for a title since modification would be too generic in nature.

Adding another maneuvering dial for a pre-existing ship introduces a whole nother level of complexity to the strategy of the game.

For example. Instead of giving it a Title or requiring even more points to be spent to fix it, what if they introduced a completely different dial, which, at the beginning of the game, you'd choose which dial to go with, and stick with it throughout the game?

The original dial has a 4k that is white. What if the alternate dial had no K-turns at all, but instead had red 3-speed S-Loops and red Talon Rolls? At the beginning of the game, you'd simply choose which maneuver dial to go with, and you'd fly with that maneuver dial the whole game. Each has its own pros and cons (no K-turns and four more red maneuvers on the one hand, versus a white K-turn and no red maneuvers on the other hand).

Not only do you get to choose between two maneuvering dials, but your opponent has to deal with not knowing what kind of maneuvers your ship has until you first reveal them. This can give you a kind of edge you need (and deserve) as a TIE Defender pilot, at least one that lasts in the early rounds of the game. Thoughts?

The problem with this is what happens when you fly more than one? You have to be absolutely clear which dial goes with which ship, and be sure the opponent isn't switching them back in forth if they have different dials for the same ship type.

This sounds like it'd be a nightmare in terms of logistics and balancing in return for basically nothing that you couldn't get by designing a new ship with the new dial you want included in the game. I'm not going to say there's no chance of it happening but I'd be astonished if it did.

A title card that tells you to use the alternate maneuver dial.

Notice that everything you say can't be done actually has a very simple solution.

Except that solution then makes the ship you're taking the dial FROM unusable.

Not really that simple...

A title card that tells you to use the alternate maneuver dial.

Notice that everything you say can't be done actually has a very simple solution.

Except that solution then makes the ship you're taking the dial FROM unusable.

Can you elaborate?

Same way the new damage deck is

I'm going to assume this means put it in a new package with the HWK.

But how does this fix your old HWK model? If you have to buy a new HWK to get a new dial, why wouldn't you just use that dial with the HWK it came with?

And you're right back where you started. With your old model still having it's old dial.

You avoid that problem by including multiple copies of the new dial and new titles. Two would be fine.

You avoid that problem by including multiple copies of the new dial and new titles. Two would be fine.

True. Although, as always, I really hate the idea of having to buy new ships to fix old ones.

At least in that instance, you're buying more of the same ship to fix itself.

I feel bad though for someone like my friend who owns 12 X-Wings if that's the kind of fix they were to introduce to the T-65. Having to get ANOTHER 12 X-Wings to fix his crappy ones.

I'd say "No" to new dials for existing ships. I'm all for titles or modifications that could give a ship additional options and perhaps upgrade it to something close to the newer model but outright new dials shouldn't happen. Far too many issues and aside from the model itself the dial is possibly the biggest and most complex piece of any ship.

I'd say "No" to new dials for existing ships. I'm all for titles or modifications that could give a ship additional options and perhaps upgrade it to something close to the newer model but outright new dials shouldn't happen. Far too many issues and aside from the model itself the dial is possibly the biggest and most complex piece of any ship.

Then this thread isn't for you. Read the original post and stop wasting your time.

You avoid that problem by including multiple copies of the new dial and new titles. Two would be fine.

True. Although, as always, I really hate the idea of having to buy new ships to fix old ones.

At least in that instance, you're buying more of the same ship to fix itself.

I feel bad though for someone like my friend who owns 12 X-Wings if that's the kind of fix they were to introduce to the T-65. Having to get ANOTHER 12 X-Wings to fix his crappy ones.

Then this thread isn't for you. Read the original post and stop wasting your time.

Threads don't exist only for people that agree with the original poster.

You made a thread to suggest something. People who disagree with you are free to say they don't want it.

I'd say "No" to new dials for existing ships. I'm all for titles or modifications that could give a ship additional options and perhaps upgrade it to something close to the newer model but outright new dials shouldn't happen. Far too many issues and aside from the model itself the dial is possibly the biggest and most complex piece of any ship.

I agree, but only as far as FFG has currently demonstrated fix releases. We're all here assuming a fix can only be released with a new model or aces expansion. But, what FFG hasn't done (but might consider doing--WINK, WINK FFG), is to release a cheap expansion product that doesn't come with a new model, but expands an exising product. For example, they could release a new maneuver dial, new pilots, new upgrades, for the TIE/Defender, say, without a new model and everything an original model requires. This "Upgrade pack" would obviously only sell to people who already have a TIE/D and are looking to improve their existing ship. Have 3 TIE/Ds you want to improve? Buy three expansion packs and don't get loaded down with the excess models and the cost those incurred (to FFG and also to you). Since they only contain basically cardboard, FFG can give them a retail price of, say, ~$6.99, and release one for every ship that wants fixing. You only need to buy one for every ship you already own that you want to run. (For TIE/D, what would that be? Two, three at the most? Only srs collectors would get 3 or 4 as you can barely fit 3 in a 100pt squad.)

This is a product line that FFG hasn't done yet, but I would be 100% behind. It's a great way to get stuff out there for Phantoms, Falcons, Defenders, E-Wings, Y-Wings, Z-95s, without waiting for the factory to print new models and without worrying about pushing too many high-cost products on your customer base. It's also a cheaper product line that is at an easier price point for us to absorb en masse that we could all go for it. They'd only need to include ~2 new pilots with each ship, a new maneuver dial (where necessary, as we're discussing in this thread), and maybe an upgrade or two that wasn't included with the original expansion but makes sense to equip to the ship. That way, some new player investing in a TIE/D for the first time only needs to buy one model ($15) and the upgrade expansion ($6.99), rather than an original model ($15) and an Aces expansion ($30), and it saves them from having to release upgrade expansions for all the ships just to get new pilots out there. If they did this for each ship that currently has 3 or less named pilots. Of course, most importantly (and the topic of this thread), it could contain 1 new maneuver dial or title that fixes the old maneuver dial, without putting more old dials and models on the player. You won't have a disproportionate amount of dials to your models when you can choose how many to buy, and at between $4.99 and $7.99, this cardboard is affordable for all (I'd buy two for the two TIE/D that I have and don't use.)

would be a simply way to upgrade a ship.. have a new dial for the X-wing call it the XJ-7 or something.. until then I just use the A-wing dial on my Y-wings!!! usually my opponent doesn't even notice!!! lol no not really...

I am more in favour of adding flexibility via "if you reveal x you may do x"-type of upgrades, mostly because I have no idea how to store even more dials. There are other ways of adding new manouvers to old dials. I would like to see them more often.

Then this thread isn't for you. Read the original post and stop wasting your time.

Threads don't exist only for people that agree with the original poster.

You made a thread to suggest something. People who disagree with you are free to say they don't want it.

No. If you don't respect the topic of the thread, which is specifically to figure out good ways to implement this idea, and instead you go off on a tangent to keep saying why it can't be done, then you are off topic and shouldn't bother posting.

Read the original post again. I'm no longer going to interact with you.

I am more in favour of adding flexibility via "if you reveal x you may do x"-type of upgrades, mostly because I have no idea how to store even more dials. There are other ways of adding new manouvers to old dials. I would like to see them more often.

I agree, that's probably the best way to do it.

However, if you were to change the dial on an existing ship, I think the only realistic way to do it would be with an upgrade card.

But, what FFG hasn't done (but might consider doing--WINK, WINK FFG), is to release a cheap expansion product that doesn't come with a new model, but expands an exising product.

FFG ruled out cardboard only expansions a while back.

No. If you don't respect the topic of the thread, which is specifically to figure out good ways to implement this idea, and instead you go off on a tangent to keep saying why it can't be done, then you are off topic and shouldn't bother posting.

Sorry, but no. The topic is the idea itself. People who don't like the idea are still completely on-topic.

It's is a public forum, not your private forum. You don't get to go "Here's my idea. Don't post if you don't like it. Only people who agree with me can post."

To be fair, the topic is asking about good ways to implement new dials. What he said is that saying they won't happen isn't helpful. He's after suggestions, not feedback.

To be fair, the topic is asking about good ways to implement new dials. What he said is that saying they won't happen isn't helpful. He's after suggestions, not feedback.

Yes, I'm sure nobody posts a thread looking for people to disagree with them(besides trolls). That doesn't mean they have the right to tell other people they can't.

Just do some mods and titles.

Kinda like the ig-88 D states.

When performing a 3 hard turn, after revealing the dial, you may change it into a Tallon Roll, etc.

My idea from my other thread:

Title:

Best Pilots in the Galaxy

1 Point

Tie Defender Only

When performing a 3 hard turn, after revealing the dial, you may change it into a Tallon Roll, this counts as a red maneuver

Easy peasy! No dial updates needed.